Bali nine duo executed by firing squad

originally posted by: PeachesNCream
Capital punishment is barbaric. Who would think in 2015 we were still instituting the death penalty.

Exactly right - what a cruel and barbaric species we are, well some of us.

From: www.news.com.au...

Indonesia’s bloodthirsty desire for crime and punishment

THE brutal executions in Indonesia mark a fresh horror in a country notable for its bizarre and bloody history of capital punishment.

It was the culmination of an inhumane ten-year ordeal for Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan and their families, the death sentence doled out despite desperate pleas from across the world.

Indonesia’s authorities turned the eight deaths into a humiliating spectacle for the condemned Australians, forcing them to pose for selfies with the condemned Australians on their flight from Denpasar to the island where they were to die.

Their families were prevented from seeing them as they were bundled in handcuffs out of Kerobakan Prison into an armoured vehicle, as 100 armed police lined up outside the prison in a sickening display of toughness that Tony Abbott called “macabre” and “undignified”.

Execution rates in the nation have been characterised by unpredictable stops and starts, often based on campaigning presidents looking to denounce particular crimes.

President Joko Widodo’s crackdown on drugs since his election in October has left him blind to the duo’s rehabilitation and remorse, and deaf to the pleas and condemnation of the international community.

The death penalty appeared on Indonesian statutes when the republic was formed in 1949, but only three executions took place under Indonesia’s first President Sukarno, for an attempt to assassinate him in the late 1950s, according to Daniel Pascoe from City University of Hong Kong. Executions remained rare until the trials of 22 alleged Indonesian Communist Party conspirators in the late 1960s and early 1970s under second president, Suharto.

During Suharto’s 31-year rule, a further nine people were executed for murder and six for Islamic terrorism, according to Indonesian NGO Kontras.

That changed in 1975, when Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia introduced the death penalty for serious drug offences, in a bid to halt the flow of narcotics through Asia from the Golden Triangle. During the “reform area” that followed the president’s resignation in 1998, 60 per cent of executions were for drug-related crimes.

In August 2004, President Megawati Sukarnoputri ordered the first capital punishment in the country for three years. Indian Ayodhya Prasad Chaubey, 67, was executed by firing squad on the island of Sumatra for drug smuggling, just weeks before a close-run election, which Sukarnoputri lost to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

The next spike in executions came in 2008, when 10 people were killed (murderers, drug traffickers, and three “Bali bombers”) as President Yudhoyono faced pressure to prove he was tough on crime ahead of 2009’s presidential election.

By May 2014, just five of the 70 terrorists convicted for their involvement in the Bali bombings remained in jail, with most walking free, making a nonsense of the nation’s inconsistent enforcement of capital punishment.

Humanitarian agencies started to hope the death penalty was all but abolished when no one was put to death in Indonesia for four years from 2009 and 2012, although more than 100 remained on death row and the country continued to issue the death sentence in court.

But in March 2013, Indonesia ended the moratorium by executing Malawi drug trafficker Adami Wilson, followed by three murder convicts at Nusa Kambangan prison that May and a Palestinian drug smuggler in November.

Yet the country has defended its citizens against the death penalty overseas. Indonesian maid Ruyati binti Sapubi was executed by beheading in Saudi Arabia in 2011, after she was convicted of murdering an employer she said had kept her enslaved. It sparked a wave of sympathy in Indonesia and President Yudhoyono announced a moratorium on Indonesian citizens heading to the Gulf kingdom for work.

Between 2012 and 2015, the Sunday Telegraph reportedthat 189 Indonesian prisoners in countries including Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran, Singapore had their death sentences commuted, after being convicted of crimes including drug smuggling.

“Of course I’m going to try to save my citizens from execution,” said Widodo last month. “That’s my obligation as a president, as a head of state ... To protect my citizens who are facing the death penalty but on the other hand we have to respect other countries that apply capital punishment. The constitution and the existing law still allows the death penalty. But, if the Indonesian people want to change it in the future, then it’s possible, why not?”

The nation’s citizens may be its best hope. Divided factions have protested for and against the executions of Chan and Sukumaran in recent times. In September 2006, thousands protested after three Christian militants were executed on Sulawesi. The extremists had masterminded a series of attacks on the island’s Muslims, killing at least 70.

Since 1975, far more prisoners have been sentenced to death than executed, as a result of judicial appeals, case reviews and grants of presidential clemency. Those executed this year are victims of Widodo’s dogged refusal to grant clemency to at least 64 people sentenced to death for drug-related crimes.

The president declared his intention in December, two months after his election, citing the industry’s devastating impact on the country’s young people. In January, his vicious crackdown was realised as five foreign nationals and one Indonesian were executed by firing squad, and this morning, eight more followed, despite international pleas for mercy and Sukumaran and Chan’s ten years of rehabilitation.

At least 130 people remain on death row in Indonesia and the government has announced plans for further executions this year. Elsewhere, we await an end to its use of human life as political capital.

originally posted by: Timely
a reply to: auswally

"Your sufferance under these two scumbags" was personal or related to another addict ?

Addiction is a medical issue. No ?

Can addicts be rehabilitated ? Nah lets just mow 'em down ! ( says 'ol mate sucking on a largie ! )

No my friend these two weren't drug addicts they forced drug addicts to do the dirty stuff there is a difference and I have seen that first hand, smart people they are until they get caught

Tell me why the other 7 aren't being lined up if you are so smart

Wal

originally posted by: auswally

originally posted by: ShadeWolf
a reply to: Jubilee

You know what would've been really great to see? If the Australian government had grown a pair, told the Indonesians to cram it and sent in the SASR to extract the entire group, bring them back to Aus and give them asylum. Show those savages what attempting to execute foreign citizens will get them.

You are a dick, why would you waste good soldiers time or life for a pair of drug dealing pieces of # , you are a retard and the person who starred you same to you.

I am as patriot to Australia as you can get and I wouldn't want any of our armed forces risking their lives for scum of the earth

Wal

Wally I gave Shadewolf a star for his great post, I guess that makes me a RETARD - very mature Wally.


"Sorry I am over this #, and it is, because I have buried 2 got another 2 hooked on sh$t , families torn apart like you wouldn't believe, death threats the whole shootn match, I got no remorse for these 2, sorry but these farkers aren't saints, deal with the other end of their decisions first hand, bury loved ones and you will feel like me , trust me .

Wal"


Wally it is very sad to hear 2 of your children have died from drug overdoses and that you have another 2 "hooked" on drugs as well. They are pretty shocking statistics for one family aren't they? Children taking drugs often get the habit from parents. Unfortunately these drug smugglers (no one has claimed they are saints Wally) made bad decisions and have paid the consequences, but don't forget nobody forced drugs down your kids throats or into veins as the case may be, they each made a bad decision and have suffered the consequences. Perhaps if your children had a role model like the reformed Myuran Sukumaran they could turn your childrens' lives around.

What a horrible way to go. I certainly do not support the death penalty, particularly as there are so many miscarriages of justice globally (no nation immune from them).

But..........

Considering you can get 20 years for possession of 1 gram of cannabis in Indonesia, it is not a wise place to try and smuggle large quantites of hard drugs through.

And at the end of the day, we have to respect laws within sovereign nations, otherwise how can we expect them to obey laws within our countries?

a reply to: auswally

They were not identified as "major players".

Or the cash was a little short ...

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Kryties

Meanwhile the Indonesian government pleads for clemency as their own citizens are facing the death penalty in other nations.

Hypocrisy at its best.

Of course, because that doesn't help their corrupt political position in their own country.

This is what happens when a political class is given absolute free reign to be as corrupt as they like with no consequence - it's so corrupt they legalize murder, just as our politicians legalize bribery.

Also important to remember that some US states still have the death penalty too, and countless people have been murdered in these states based on false information, corrupt proceedings, FBI failings, corrupt judges, religious fanaticism, racism...

The death penalty has not worked for centuries, it's about time all governments were held to account by their own citizens for the murders they permit.

originally posted by: Flavian
And at the end of the day, we have to respect laws within sovereign nations, otherwise how can we expect them to obey laws within our countries?

No decent Human should "respect" a sovereign country which believes murder is a solution to anything.
We should have started decades ago and made it clear that this needs to stop under international law, and if it doesn't we end trade agreements, tourism, economic assistance and more.

When a nation is actively abusing the fundamental principles of Human rights we should take a moral stand against it and make clear that it's not acceptable.

Unfortunately this cannot happen while the US is a hypocrite.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
S&F Kryties - their deaths served no purpose, it will not deter the same from occurring again and the blatant disregard for their clear rehab and ongoing appeals is a disrespectful slap in the face.

I'm currently in Kupang, and many locals here are equally upset and the political posturing going on.

I wonder if this execution will tip the balance over there between those locals who support capital punishment and those who don't? Surely not everyone there could look at the disgraceful way the men and families were treated in the last month for one and think that it was a good thing.

It's heartening to hear that not all Indonesians support the executions and the lead-up to them - one certainly did not get that impression while watching the Live stream from Cilacap last night and seeing the locals taking selfies with the coffin vans for crying out loud.

originally posted by: auswally
a reply to: Jubilee
Both of you need to report facts, not Chanel ten news hey. 2.4 billion in aid , pfttttt it's 600 mill , Islamic extremists, you do know the indonesian government shot dead lots of them , Indonesians plundering our fish stocks, yep did happen , but not in the last ten years . Please report facts not fiction , we need Indo just like they need us, and if you have travelled through their country 99% of the are beautiful people just like any other nation! you always get the #

Wal

Both of you???? 2 me's? OMG I have a doppelganger and didn't know it LOL

I think you just make # up as you go along Wally. Please be more specific, maybe by quoting my post from "Chanel ten news hey" assume you are referring to the Channel Ten News which was broadcast at 5pm and which I DID NOT WATCH Wally. In fact I rarely watch Ten.

Islamic extremists Wally? Do you have a reference or source for this statement "govt shot dead lots of them" ????? Can we all be privy to these "facts".

Perhaps an interesting post from you would be: explaining "why we need Indo like they need us" - just a suggestion if you are up to it.

Indonesians haven't plundered our fish stocks for the last 10 years. Sorry Wally can we have a reference or some type of source for this inaccurate comment (fiction perhaps Wally?). They are still plundering according to this article:

www.abc.net.au...

"This is the most recent case of illegal foreign fishing in Australian waters, the seventh this year. But a few years ago, it was a different story. Some 367 boats were nabbed in 2004, but now it's down to just 71 since July 2008."

You want FACTS from me (both me's lol) while you spout fiction lol

By the way Wally I have travelled to Indonesia (not just Bali) and have seen the good and the bad, mostly its bad - in my opinion.

originally posted by: Flavian
What a horrible way to go. I certainly do not support the death penalty, particularly as there are so many miscarriages of justice globally (no nation immune from them).

As opposed to rotting away over decades in a crowded Indonesian prison with no hope of release?
I'm uncertain as to which is the worse sentence.

originally posted by: Kryties
I was describing an important part of the issue but not, BY ANY MEANS, the most important aspect of these executions - that was Point 2. Apparently I DO need to break out the Sesame street letters.

What relevance does this have to my reply, exactly? Or were you just itching to resort to an ad hominem?

WRONG. It is not just my belief that the men were rehabilitated, it was the belief of many MANY people who had studied their case and/or had met them - INCLUDING the Governor of the prison where they were for 10 years (it should be noted he had NEVER done that before for ANYONE ELSE), the United Nations, Our Prime Minister and our entire political establishment - among MANY OTHERS.

Now you are trying to insinuate that I was debating whether the men were really rehabilitated? Please indicate where it states in Indonesian law that rehabilitated former drug smugglers may be spared the death penalty.

Why do people keep insisting it was just a belief that was not proven? GO AND DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE.

You should think about what you are trying to argue here.

Indonesian LAW also requires that the President individually assess clemency applications to decide on death or reprieve. THE PRESIDENT DID NOT DO THIS. The President admitted publicly that he didn't look at the applications, he merely signed a blanket denial of clemency to everyone, regardless of circumstance or mitigating factors he WAS REQUIRED TO CONSIDER UNDER INDONESIAN LAW. Not only that but the 2 condemned men had ongoing appeals in the Indonesian Courts against that very judgement of not individually considering the cases when they were executed - before those appeals could be heard.

If no appeals were considered, then why did it take 10 years before they were executed? Can you explain that?

Again, I find myself asking this question, WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?????

Seriously people, you are replying to mine (and some others ) posts after NOT HAVING READ THEM PROPERLY.

You have some nerve to accuse other people of not reading your posts properly when you are not reading other people's posts properly!

Now, have I made myself clear enough that this execution was unjust and wrong because of those reasons yet? Do I need to start drawing diagrams with stick figures and little bubble captions? Will that help people understand that the law was broken and two men wrongly executed?

More ad hominems will not win you this debate.

a reply to: Kryties

No-one I have talked to supports the death penalty here but their MAJOR concern, just like after Bali, is the fall-out at a local level economically. My company is investing massively here (Google INPEX project pipeline supply run) which will not change and I am here to also reinforce that.

Fortunately, we have more sway than politicians (because we have the $$$) and this area is very close to Dili so we know the history of this particular part well - don't we.

They are "Indonesian" by geography only - that much is very clear and this BS he is playing at will win him no votes - irrelevant anyway........look up "corruption" in the dictionary......there is a picture of Jakarta.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

What relevance does this have to my reply, exactly? Or were you just itching to resort to an ad hominem?

I was merely reiterating my point that my opposition to the death penalty in general was only a small part of this issue.

Now you are trying to insinuate that I was debating whether the men were really rehabilitated? Please indicate where it states in Indonesian law that rehabilitated former drug smugglers may be spared the death penalty.

You WERE saying that the men weren't rehabilitated by stating that it was my opinion alone, not taking into account the UN Secretary General, The Governor of the prison, all Australian politicians, most Aussies and most other people that have read the case properly and/or met the men personally.

Also, the men had ONGOING CASES WITHIN THE INDONESIAN COURTS challenging the denial of clemency and the refusal to look at the cases individually. Why is this so difficult to understand? Would you accept someone going to their deaths without having all their appeals heard first in your country if you had the death penalty? NO YOU WOULD NOT.

You should think about what you are trying to argue here.

What, that the mens rehabilitation efforts have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in the eyes of most people, including those who would normally not comment on the matter such as the governor of the bloody prison they were in?

Are you serious?

If no appeals were considered, then why did it take 10 years before they were executed? Can you explain that?

My god some people are thick.

THEY HAD ONGOING LEGAL CHALLENGES IN THE INDONESIAN COURTS AGAINST THE CLEMENCY REJECTIONS when they were executed. This is aside from any appeals they had already had in courts against their sentence. THIS WAS EXTRA AND SEPERATE APPEALS that could only be made after the President refused them clemency which only happened recently.

Seriously mate, the more you talk the more you show you haven't a clue what you are discussing. You clearly have done ZERO research on the matter. please do so before commenting further.

You have some nerve to accuse other people of not reading your posts properly when you are not reading other people's posts properly!

I read yours properly and replied correctly, it is YOU who are insisting on commenting on this issue without clearly having ANY knowledge whatsoever of it.

PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH. It's not that hard mate, Google is your friend.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Kryties

No-one I have talked to supports the death penalty here but their MAJOR concern, just like after Bali, is the fall-out at a local level economically. My company is investing massively here (Google INPEX project pipeline supply run) which will not change and I am here to also reinforce that.

Fortunately, we have more sway than politicians (because we have the $$$) and this area is very close to Dili so we know the history of this particular part well - don't we.

They are "Indonesian" by geography only - that much is very clear and this BS he is playing at will win him no votes - irrelevant anyway........look up "corruption" in the dictionary......there is a picture of Jakarta.

The most disgraceful part of Jokowi was his popularity leading up to the election based on going after corruption then when he gets into power half his staff are known corrupt officials, including the Attorney General. The fact that he basically has his nose up Megawati's rectum should speak volumes to the people there and worldwide.

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Flavian
What a horrible way to go. I certainly do not support the death penalty, particularly as there are so many miscarriages of justice globally (no nation immune from them).

As opposed to rotting away over decades in a crowded Indonesian prison with no hope of release?
I'm uncertain as to which is the worse sentence.

I agree wholeheartedly. In many ways the Firing Squad is more humane (something i never thought i would be writing). In Thailand, death sentences on foreign nationals are often over turned in favour of longer sentences. Was it only the political ramifications within Indonesia that prevented this? Again though, it isn't really much of a compromise anyway for those involved, even if it wasn't too late.

At the end of the day though, the ramifications for being caught smuggling there are very well known, and as has been pointed out already in this thread there are even numerous signs within the airport itself. All i can say is that if i was ever unfortunate enough to have made similar bad choices (for whatever reason) to try to smuggle class A's internationally, i certainly wouldn't be going through a country that carries the death penalty for those actions.

Indonesia's actions are wrong - that is quite simple. But equally, you cannot simply dismiss personal responsibilty either.

originally posted by: Kryties
Also, the men had ONGOING CASES WITHIN THE INDONESIAN COURTS challenging the denial of clemency and the refusal to look at the cases individually.

Not true....

The State Administrative Court of Jakarta threw out the appeal on Monday afternoon on the grounds it did not have jurisdiction to rule on presidential decrees.

www.smh.com.au...

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Because it is just not true, as I showed.

What, that the mens rehabilitation efforts

That has nothing at all to do with their court case. There is no provision for a convicted, admitted drug dealer avoiding the death penalty because they are "rehabilitated"!

THEY HAD ONGOING LEGAL CHALLENGES IN THE INDONESIAN COURTS AGAINST THE CLEMENCY REJECTIONS when they were executed.

Shouting does not make it true - that is just a false statement.

As to the Constitution Court, any decision by them would not be applicable to these drug dealers case.

human rights lawyer Professor Todung Mulya Lubis earlier told Fairfax Media that any decision made by the constitutional court would not be retrospective and therefore would not affect the outcome for Chan and Sukumaran.

This is aside from any appeals they had already had in courts against their sentence. THIS WAS EXTRA AND SEPERATE APPEALS that could only be made after the President refused them clemency which only happened recently.

They were all thrown out.....

seriously mate, the more you talk the more you show you haven't a clue what you are discussing. You clearly have done ZERO research on the matter. please do so before commenting further.

As I just showed, you are the one without a clue, and obviously have done zero research. You just post crap here.

originally posted by: hellobruce

Not true....

You're conveniently forgetting the Constitutional Court challenge and the Judicial Appeals court challenge to the decision. Why is that? Is it because it doesn't fit into your barbaric narrative that they deserved to die?

Because it is just not true, as I showed.

All you showed is that you are cherrypicking information to suit your argument and ignoring all that doesn't agree.

That has nothing at all to do with their court case. There is no provision for a convicted, admitted drug dealer avoiding the death penalty because they are "rehabilitated"!

Actually the court case was challenging the Presidents actions in refusing clemency without looking at the cases individually. Again, you are cherrypicking and ignoring the actual truth in favour of your version of it.

Shouting does not make it true - that is just a false statement.

How is it a false statement when it is true?

As to the Constitution Court, any decision by them would not be applicable to these drug dealers case.

And that is EXACTLY what they were appealing again against when they were executed.

They were all thrown out.....

....and rechallenged. Don't forget that!

As I just showed, you are the one without a clue, and obviously have done zero research. You just post crap here.

Nope, sorry but you're the one cherrypicking and ignoring information in order to twist it to your point of view. These men were unjustly executed, without having all of their appeals heard, against the pleas of practically everyone who actually matters (hint, that's not you) in the whole world, broke international law by torturing these men over 10 years (its against international law to execute someone for drug smuggling) then politically executing them, treated their families in a ghastly fashion and pissing off a LOT of people in the process.

Regardless of your bloodlust and salivating at the thought of humans dying in horrible fashions, I shall continue to post here and challenge the vicious nonsense and barbaric talk.

You know what? If these blokes hadn't decided to start up a drug mule business in a country that executes people for such things, they'd still be alive.

I got no sympathy for them. They knew the risks, they involved others who maybe didn't know so well and they planned to bring narcotics out that would cause all sorts of misery for folks through addiction.

a reply to: Kryties

I have to be honest mate, my sympathy is mainly for the families of those executed. Their treatment was horrendous. Whilst i disagree with their demise, i have much less sympathy for those actually executed.