Gov. Hogan Declares State Of Emergency, Activates National Guard - Baltimore

a reply to: Xcathdra

This is key to that story though:

Who was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him

a reply to: Ektar

That's the video I'm referring to. Watch how he gets in the van.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Sure but it can't be ignored because of it.

a reply to: Xcathdra

wrong video? That didn't show him getting into the van..

a reply to: OpinionatedB

He has been ever since I started posted him....he was live last
night night until curfew started to set in & then stingray knocked
him out of reporting. The bloody same thing happened tonight,
you saw me reporting 15 minutes into curfew , people donning mask
for pepper or tear gas & then he was knocked off again.

He was an awesome reporter with actual boots on the ground at
Furguson & he is known....

I need to have more than MSM....I have no TV & get most me news from
ATS...so I am SO for these independent guys that travel to report. The
other guy I followed for Furguson was Argus on livestream.

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: Xcathdra

I never saw him get into the van only drug to the van...
the video I saw from the MSM cut the video of him actually
getting into the van.

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: Ektar

I have seen that from two different angles, both show him being dragged to the van, and dragged half way into the van, but both seem to stop there.. ie: I haven't seen anything to show that change at all.

Both videos have him saying ow.. and one woman told the cops to stop and get him medical attention because something was wrong with his leg.. he appeared to have no control over one of his legs at that time.

According to the Mayor, Grey asked for medical attention and the cops didn't get him any.. so there is some measure of culpability there should that have been true.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Xcathdra

wrong video? That didn't show him getting into the van..

The intial video of his arrest, where they are forced to drag him to the van. If you watch it all when they get to the van he is all of a sudden ok and enters the van under his own power using his own feet.

It starts in full around the 1:40 second mark. At the end, when the guy recording starts to pan back to the right, watch the back of the van. I find it interesting that when he thinks the camera is off him his attitude and demeanor change.



What was he doing right before his arrest?

He was involved in a mile long foot pursuit with police.

By the way - A deployed taser affects the central nervous system. It transmits on the same signal your brain uses for motor control, resulting in loss of motor control. That loss of control ends the moment the taser is done cycling and full control is restored. I know this as a person who has been tasered during training and by tasered I mean having it deployed, barbs and all, into my back.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Just to be clear...

Law enforcement is not required to provide / request medical. When they refuse they are then responsible for what can occur.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't understand...

Is there any way you can be more clear?

I thought if someone in custody was hurt or injured and needed medical attention, it is up to the police to call an ambulance..

they don't pay for it, but they do have to allow for medical attention when needed and when requested.. my understanding here only..

a reply to: OpinionatedB

If a person is in custody the police are responsible, up to and including medical bills (varies by state, state and local laws).

If a person in custody requests medical the police aren't required to call for it. With that said they are responsible for what happens if they don't call (again will vary by state laws).

If I don't call for medical and something happens the first question for me will be are you certified medical that can diagnose. My response will be no at which point I just opened up a world of liability for my decision to deny medical. Have I denied it? Yup because in some instances people think we will unarrest them and send them to the er alone where they can then refuse medical to avoid arrest.

In general the policies are if someone claims and injury we request medical and go from there.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Have you read this?

Grey isn't the first

It throws a different light on what the city of Baltimore appears to tolerate from their police periodically.

The most sensational case in Baltimore involved Johnson, a 43-year-old plumber who was arrested for public urination. He was handcuffed and placed in a transport van in good health. He emerged a quadriplegic.

Before he died, he complained to his doctor that he was not buckled into his seat when the police van "made a sharp turn," sending him "face first" into the interior of the van, court records state. He was "violently thrown around the back of the vehicle as [police officers] drove in an aggressive fashion, taking turns so as to injure [Johnson] who was helplessly cuffed," the lawsuit stated.

Johnson, who suffered a fractured neck, died two weeks later of pneumonia caused by his paralysis. His family sued, and a jury agreed that three officers were negligent in the way they treated Johnson. The initial $7.4 million award, however, was eventually reduced to $219,000 by Maryland's Court of Special Appeals because state law caps such payouts.

In 1997, Alston became paralyzed from the neck down in a van after being arrested. Alston said he told the officers he couldn't breathe, but they refused to give him an inhaler for asthma.

Officers said the 32-year-old repeatedly rammed his head into the side of the van, freed himself from a seat belt and thrashed some more.

Alston sued, and at the trial, Dr. Adrian Barbul, a Sinai Hospital trauma surgeon, testified that Alston had no external head injuries when he was taken to the emergency room.

A jury awarded Alston $39 million,

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Yes and again we don't have all the facts. Info is coming out from the autopsy showing the injuries and death are stemming from injuries sustained in the van when no law enforcement were present.

If that's true then how does this incident even come close to the article you linked to?

Are you suggesting the response by people is justified because of other instances unrelated to this?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Yes and again we don't have all the facts. Info is coming out from the autopsy showing the injuries and death are stemming from injuries sustained in the van when no law enforcement were present.

If that's true then how does this incident even come close to the article you linked to?

An autopsy cannot tell you who was present..

the only thing an autopsy can say is cause of death.. not who was there.


ETA; (to answer your eta)

I don't think rioting is justifiable.. and I have been very supportive of the police.. but if this is a rather common occurrence in baltimore for people to emerge from the van paralysis, then I think it shows a deeper problem than ignorance on the part of the police there.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Yes and again we don't have all the facts. Info is coming out from the autopsy showing the injuries and death are stemming from injuries sustained in the van when no law enforcement were present.

If that's true then how does this incident even come close to the article you linked to?

An autopsy cannot tell you who was present..

the only thing an autopsy can say is cause of death.. not who was there.

An autopsy that links injuries to the death and those injuries are from a head slamming into a bolt in the back of the van and occurred while the vehicle was in motion then what?

ETA - Baltimore pd is approximately 40%+ black officers.
They have a black commissioner.
They have a black mayor.
City council is like 11 of 14 seats are black.
The city PA is black.

Is this a racial issue?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't understand...

Is there any way you can be more clear?

I thought if someone in custody was hurt or injured and needed medical attention, it is up to the police to call an ambulance..

they don't pay for it, but they do have to allow for medical attention when needed and when requested.. my understanding here only..

While that may be what should happen, far too often, that is not the case. As per this example from an article by Truthout:

"Tell me how your son died," I asked. It was toward the end of our interview. Chavis and I were in our own bubble in the café, oblivious to everyone else. She took a breath. "He was caught in crossfire on the street," Chavis said. "His friends tried to take him to the hospital, but police pulled them over and ordered them to put him down on the ground." She took a moment, and looked away. "They never called an ambulance. He bled to death a block away from the hospital."

My own heart hurt. Imagining this young man who this strong woman gave birth to, dying in a puddle of his own blood as cops stood and ignored his pain. I wanted to meet her son and laugh with him, get to know him. You can feel the imprint of people you never met in the way others talk about them, the way family caresses their memory like a pearl. Hearing Chavis remember her son, I could tell he was a good kid, and deeply loved.

www.truth-out.org...#

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Yes and again we don't have all the facts. Info is coming out from the autopsy showing the injuries and death are stemming from injuries sustained in the van when no law enforcement were present.

If that's true then how does this incident even come close to the article you linked to?

Are you suggesting the response by people is justified because of other instances unrelated to this?

Of course it's not justified, but when the incidents pile up, they become such an overwhelming pattern that they can really no longer be considered "unrelated" at all.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Sorry I have no clue....but you said above that no law enforcement were
present in the van?
"Yes and again we don't have all the facts. Info is coming out from the autopsy showing the injuries and death are stemming from injuries sustained in the van when no law enforcement were present.
I thought when arrested who ever transported anyone
was law enforcement. I mean law enforcement cannot just allow anyone to transport
nor allow anyone who has been arrested out of their sight until booked or whatever at
the police station...yes? THX

Cheers
Ektar

a reply to: Xcathdra

Don't give me BS crap..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

^^^ Read the above, then come back..

that said, I am not stupid. I also don't appreciate being treated as if I am so stupid as to fall for, "the autopsy will say who was there"..

that will only work on someone with an IQ somewhere below 100.. thank you.. mine is not.

My stance is looking for the truth. And the truth appears that many people become paralyzed after riding in a transport van driven by Baltimore PD. This history shows a serious problem...

when anything becomes a pattern, there is ALWAYS a reason for that pattern... I lived in Kansas City and that city doesn't have a history of people breaking their necks when transported.. it is simply not a common problem anywhere..

To look for truth, or to ask for others to be truthful, to say that criminals should be punished wherever they are found, is blind to race or any other consideration.. Truth is blind to all but truth, and justice should be blind too.

I am not a racist, on any side of the fence.. I don't see in color, I see heart.

Now.. that we are done with me as the topic of conversation.. do you suppose we could get back to facts?

originally posted by: jessme2


Of course it's not justified, but when the incidents pile up, they become such an overwhelming pattern that they can really no longer be considered "unrelated" at all.

Then what is their black leadership doing?

Is it a race issue?