Racism in the Bible

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

They were real gods even the Hebrews aacknowledge this. But they are all aspects of hashem because they all converge into oneness. People were essentially worshipping parts of the whole. The Hebrews then simplified it to Hashem (the ALL) ,YHWH (right brain masculine) and Adonai (left brain feminine) which were all names for god in the OT. Anytime these names come up it is certain aspects and personality that's why people think the bible is contradictory. Because different gods do appear in the bible no matter how many times Christians refuse to believe it. Check what the word god was written as in Aramaic where we get the Modern bible from it was Elohim which literally translates to "The deities".

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: StoutBroux

Yes, I only highlighted a few of them. There are MANY more passages that show this. The whole "Chosen People" shtick is pretty racist in itself.

Hi there. Of course any country/race that calls itself the 'Chosen People' is...... racist? Not sure that is the right word. The reason I say that is that some Christians may use that phrase, some Muslims, some Jewish etc etc regardless of where they were born. There are some people on ATS who will define America as Gods country, though I don't know where that could come from.

There are some that will define and judge people based on their political thoughts and claim themselves superior, will even wage war against them because their ideological beliefs are different to their own - Vietnam ring any bells?

Maybe a better word would be "Bigots".

So, is America racist/bigoted as a nation due to the Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts? You can argue the finer detail as much as you wish, but essentially it comes down to the same thing as what you are suggesting - one group of people claiming some level of superiority over another. The only interesting thing is in countless threads you declaim the Bible as false, yet the examples I've just given above can't really be denied.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Though I think it is funny that you are the second Christian to get offended

Oh but I'm not offended homeboy. I'm disgusted.

Why? Because I'm doing to your bible what you guys try to do to Evolution all the time? Pick it apart. Except I'M actually making an attempt to use the source material to argue my point instead of straw mans.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Tell that to all the Christians who cite passages from the Bible to justify their intolerance of homosexuals.

Homosexuals can live their lives as they see fit.

But that will not change the truth: God and later Christ preached marriage as between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman. Therefore, a Christian generally will follow that teaching. Just as a Christian generally does not believe in divorce except in certain, narrow cases despite the laws of man.

Tolerance is a two-way street. If they want to live their lives as they see fit, I won't stop them, but they should at least accord me the same courtesy.

Letting people live the way they see fit INCLUDES letting them marry if they want to. Christians don't own marriage, and if it offends you to call it marriage, you can secretly pretend it's not valid. No one cares there. That's between you and... uh... God.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You can try to rationalize it or pretend it doesn't exist, but it is certainly there and is certainly evidence of intolerance

So are you saying that it's only Christian doctrine that should not be tolerated ? Where do you get your morals and high ground for what is and is not tolerable ? politicians, lawyers , philosophers ???

I'm using YOUR Christian morals to show that YOUR Christian bible goes against YOUR Christian morals. It's called hypocrisy.

originally posted by: borntowatch
Bother me?

Seriously are you that simple?

It doesn't bother you that the Bible is racist?

The world is as nasty now as it was then, what bothers my is stupidity, violence and a lack of righteous justice.

That's because "righteous justice" is a myth buddy.

Thye bible points out the evil done by His people and the punishment that comes from evil actions.

Evil actions like having the AUDACITY to be born of the wrong race? SUCH a crime!

It doesn't bother me, it serves as a warning that God is JUST and I have to try live a just life, it bothers me so much that I rely on Jesus because I am not just.

It doesn't bother me, it serves as a warning.

I cant believe you cant put 1 + 1 together. Its a warning about the consequences of evil.

Great we've been warned that we can't be born into certain groups of people because their parents may have sinned in the past! Glad you could add that up for me.

Bother me? Its put there for a reason, its supposed to be in the bible.
The consequences are not in the passage, doesnt mean there are no consequences, just means you cant understand what is written

Woooosshhh, that is what is written going over your head

And you are doing SUCH a great job clearing that up for me.

Between you and randy, it is pretty funny how mad the uber-religious get when shown the flaws in their text. Like you haven't even ATTEMPTED to refute any of my arguments and instead jump straight to derisive dismissal. It's pretty telling that I must have hit pretty close to home there.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: StoutBroux

Yes, I only highlighted a few of them. There are MANY more passages that show this. The whole "Chosen People" shtick is pretty racist in itself.

Hi there. Of course any country/race that calls itself the 'Chosen People' is...... racist? Not sure that is the right word. The reason I say that is that some Christians may use that phrase, some Muslims, some Jewish etc etc regardless of where they were born. There are some people on ATS who will define America as Gods country, though I don't know where that could come from.

There are some that will define and judge people based on their political thoughts and claim themselves superior, will even wage war against them because their ideological beliefs are different to their own - Vietnam ring any bells?

Maybe a better word would be "Bigots".

So, is America racist/bigoted as a nation due to the Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts? You can argue the finer detail as much as you wish, but essentially it comes down to the same thing as what you are suggesting - one group of people claiming some level of superiority over another. The only interesting thing is in countless threads you declaim the Bible as false, yet the examples I've just given above can't really be denied.

Uh... Yes... I've been calling out America's Islamophobia on this website for months now. Where have you been?

a reply to: Klassified

This is a fair point. Maybe I should have titled the thread "Bigotry in the Bible". It would have been more inclusive.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: StoutBroux

Yes, I only highlighted a few of them. There are MANY more passages that show this. The whole "Chosen People" shtick is pretty racist in itself.

Hi there. Of course any country/race that calls itself the 'Chosen People' is...... racist? Not sure that is the right word. The reason I say that is that some Christians may use that phrase, some Muslims, some Jewish etc etc regardless of where they were born. There are some people on ATS who will define America as Gods country, though I don't know where that could come from.

There are some that will define and judge people based on their political thoughts and claim themselves superior, will even wage war against them because their ideological beliefs are different to their own - Vietnam ring any bells?

Maybe a better word would be "Bigots".

So, is America racist/bigoted as a nation due to the Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts? You can argue the finer detail as much as you wish, but essentially it comes down to the same thing as what you are suggesting - one group of people claiming some level of superiority over another. The only interesting thing is in countless threads you declaim the Bible as false, yet the examples I've just given above can't really be denied.

Uh... Yes... I've been calling out America's Islamophobia on this website for months now. Where have you been?

I don't read every thread. Not sure how you classify the Vietnam incursion as Islamaphobia, but there you go.

More to the point, if you believe in the Bible (you have been fairly constant that you believe it's all false (doesn't that present you with a paradox?), as anything at all, then based on the time it was written it shows Egypt, Israel and moving into the New Testament, Rome striving towards being the dominant nation/people.

Is that racist/bigoted? Possibly, but it's certainly consistent with how things happened until relatively recently, and that's without (usually) an overt call to faith - or lack of. Why you think Israel would be any different and would not tell their people they were fighting by the will of the God?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Krazysh0t

[cont]

Now some of you might be saying that this is just the OT I'm talking about here. Jesus CHANGED things man! Well Jesus was a racist too. For this I bring to you Matthew 15:22-28 about a Cannaanite woman BEGGING Jesus for help with her demon possesed daughter. Instead Jesus first bluntly says that he is only there to help Isrealites and only they can be saved, then he compares the lady to a dog. So the woman says that even dogs eat crumbs (basically admitting that she is a dog), so finally Jesus relents and saves the lady's daughter.

22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Now many will say that these were different times and people acted differently back then and other stuff. Well if that is the case, then STOP using passages like this to support bigotry of the day. Be the spoke that causes the change instead of wallowing in intolerance and hate. Jesus is supposed to be about love and acceptance. So prove it. Rise ABOVE these things. Maybe then people wouldn't get so offended at Christians all the time.

I'm no more an expert on Theology than I assume you are, but I don't think she's literally being called a dog, any more than Christ means the people of Israel work around on four legs with a woolen coat saying Baa a lot. It's an analogy that to me represents that even though the woman was not an Israeli, her belief in him and God was the reason he did what he did. Actually, it makes sense to me and I guess is actual showing the inclusive nature of the Word if one chooses to accept it.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: StoutBroux

Yes, I only highlighted a few of them. There are MANY more passages that show this. The whole "Chosen People" shtick is pretty racist in itself.

Hi there. Of course any country/race that calls itself the 'Chosen People' is...... racist? Not sure that is the right word. The reason I say that is that some Christians may use that phrase, some Muslims, some Jewish etc etc regardless of where they were born. There are some people on ATS who will define America as Gods country, though I don't know where that could come from.

There are some that will define and judge people based on their political thoughts and claim themselves superior, will even wage war against them because their ideological beliefs are different to their own - Vietnam ring any bells?

Maybe a better word would be "Bigots".

So, is America racist/bigoted as a nation due to the Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts? You can argue the finer detail as much as you wish, but essentially it comes down to the same thing as what you are suggesting - one group of people claiming some level of superiority over another. The only interesting thing is in countless threads you declaim the Bible as false, yet the examples I've just given above can't really be denied.

Uh... Yes... I've been calling out America's Islamophobia on this website for months now. Where have you been?

I don't read every thread. Not sure how you classify the Vietnam incursion as Islamaphobia, but there you go.

Meh. Asianophobia. It exists, but luckily isn't nearly as widespread as it used to be. In fact, I'd reason that Asians are the least discriminated against group of people next to whites. Though I don't have any figures on that, so don't quote me on it.

More to the point, if you believe in the Bible (you have been fairly constant that you believe it's all false (doesn't that present you with a paradox?), as anything at all, then based on the time it was written it shows Egypt, Israel and moving into the New Testament, Rome striving towards being the dominant nation/people.

Empire building comes with a lot of intolerance. Certainly. I don't agree with the US' empire building and I don't like that it happened in the past. However, history is history. Warts and all.

Is that racist/bigoted? Possibly, but it's certainly consistent with how things happened until relatively recently, and that's without (usually) an overt call to faith - or lack of. Why you think Israel would be any different and would not tell their people they were fighting by the will of the God?

Oh I certainly DO agree that the Israelites were just acting in the manor of their time. I admitted this in the OP. I'm trying to point out the hypocrisy in scriptural doctrine that says one thing then makes exceptions to those claims throughout much of the religion's history. Why are we letting the ancient Hebrews give credit to God for their atrocious actions, when in reality they were just like any other nation/tribe/group of people throughout history that uses God to justify their wars of aggression?

a reply to: uncommitted

It's pretty clear what happened. The woman came up, begged Jesus to help him. He ignored her until his disciples begged Jesus to help her so that she'd go away. Then he compared her to a dog (I know he wasn't straight up calling her a dog, but that line wasn't meant to be flattering). So the woman admitted that she was beneath him as a non-Israelite and then Jesus relented and helped her.

originally posted by: ketsuko
If they are sacrificing their sons and daughters and persist in such practices ... perhaps we should. Are you saying that we ought to tolerate a culture that deems the human sacrifice of small children as something appropriate?

Heck yeah! If Christians want to sacrifice their young, I say let them. That's evolution in action.

But that will not change the truth: God and later Christ preached marriage as between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman. Therefore, a Christian generally will follow that teaching. Just as a Christian generally does not believe in divorce except in certain, narrow cases despite the laws of man.

It won't change what you BELIEVE (and assume as truth). Most Christians I know have no problem with homosexuality. The bible spoke against that, but it also condoned slavery and worse; so can you really trust it as an authority on morality? A large amount of Christians do not take the bible literally anymore, which is why you have so many that get divorced each year (far more than all other groups put together in the US).

The past is the past, in 2015 all humans are equal, Jesus died for everybody, and we all bleed red.

There was a culture of servitude and slavery during bible times, I mean look at even Abraham considered God's personal friend, taking his slave to mate with to produce children. This is outrageous by our standards today, and the fact is what God tolerated in the past, he doesn't today.

Indeed they were different times.

originally posted by: artistpoet
Why would a non Christian deliberately provoke Christians ... what is to be gained and who does it benefit
So much for tolerance and live and let live

I'd guess it's for the reason that many Christians that post here deliberately attack science and atheism using ignorance. It's funny you always hear this tolerance bit when they are being portrayed in a negative light, but when they viciously and ignorantly attack science, and belittle folks that accept science as valid, they are in the right, yet still play the victim card when people correct their false claims. I guess they just can't win. It's likely because instead of promoting the positives of the religion, they attack other views instead. I'd like to see some rational modern day prominent Christian leaders come forward and denounce that type of fundamentalist behavior.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
There was a culture of servitude and slavery during bible times, I mean look at even Abraham considered God's personal friend, taking his slave to mate with to produce children. This is outrageous by our standards today, and the fact is what God tolerated in the past, he doesn't today.

How do you know that? The Bible has remained unchanged for 2000 years. What new edict has come down saying that God's tolerance has changed?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: StoutBroux

Yes, I only highlighted a few of them. There are MANY more passages that show this. The whole "Chosen People" shtick is pretty racist in itself.

Hi there. Of course any country/race that calls itself the 'Chosen People' is...... racist? Not sure that is the right word. The reason I say that is that some Christians may use that phrase, some Muslims, some Jewish etc etc regardless of where they were born. There are some people on ATS who will define America as Gods country, though I don't know where that could come from.

There are some that will define and judge people based on their political thoughts and claim themselves superior, will even wage war against them because their ideological beliefs are different to their own - Vietnam ring any bells?

Maybe a better word would be "Bigots".

So, is America racist/bigoted as a nation due to the Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts? You can argue the finer detail as much as you wish, but essentially it comes down to the same thing as what you are suggesting - one group of people claiming some level of superiority over another. The only interesting thing is in countless threads you declaim the Bible as false, yet the examples I've just given above can't really be denied.

Uh... Yes... I've been calling out America's Islamophobia on this website for months now. Where have you been?

I don't read every thread. Not sure how you classify the Vietnam incursion as Islamaphobia, but there you go.

Meh. Asianophobia. It exists, but luckily isn't nearly as widespread as it used to be. In fact, I'd reason that Asians are the least discriminated against group of people next to whites. Though I don't have any figures on that, so don't quote me on it.

In fairness, it wasn't against Asia as such, it was against communism, that was fairly much it.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
The past is the past, in 2015 all humans are equal, Jesus died for everybody, and we all bleed red.

There was a culture of servitude and slavery during bible times, I mean look at even Abraham considered God's personal friend, taking his slave to mate with to produce children. This is outrageous by our standards today, and the fact is what God tolerated in the past, he doesn't today.

Indeed they were different times.

The times were different, yes. But you are telling me that an all powerful all knowing god wouldn't know that slavery is wrong and speak against it, as he did with the other commandments? Why would he tolerate it? Slavery was good for business, but it was very wrong. That is VERY inconsistent for somebody that lives outside of time itself and knows everything that ever happened and will happen and claims moral superiority. Slavery was the way of the world, and the fact that god wouldn't speak out against it speaks volumes on whether he actually exists.

That stance suggests the world was here first and god was later added to the equation. According to the bible he made the world and humanity, so claiming god was just tolerant to the 'way of the world' is silly. He should have had a hard nosed stance on that issue from Day 1. Of course that assumes that we all agree that slavery is wrong. Or is it only wrong when it's his "chosen" people?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: uncommitted

It's pretty clear what happened. The woman came up, begged Jesus to help him. He ignored her until his disciples begged Jesus to help her so that she'd go away. Then he compared her to a dog (I know he wasn't straight up calling her a dog, but that line wasn't meant to be flattering). So the woman admitted that she was beneath him as a non-Israelite and then Jesus relented and helped her.

Not below him, below God - that's the whole point. Another fascinating one though, perhaps we should both do evening classes in Theology.

a reply to: uncommitted

Matthew 15:26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

Children here being "God's chosen" and bread being Jesus' superpowers. Basically he is saying that his superpowers are wasted on the unworthy.