Rick Santorum Quotes WBC To Defend Indiana's Religious Freedom Law

originally posted by: 200Plus


I am curious. What was you excuse when Abbey refused to allow Bachelorette parties and a whole host of other "gay bars" followed suit. They were in the right to "stand up for their beliefs" or some other tripe I'm sure. It was simply breaking the non-discrimination law. But, it was OK because it was the other side doing it.

Was it in fact breaking the law? Is it part of the normal business of a gay bar to have Bachelorette parties? Did they allow Bachelorette parties for gays but not for straights? See, when you agree to cater weddings for straights but not for gays, THAT is discrimination. But if you decide not to cater weddings for ANYONE, it's not discrimination.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Not really. When you say "I'm not allowing heterosexuals to have parties at my establishment it is discrimination.

It was part of there normal business until they made it a political stance on gay marriage.

Women can still drink at the bar just not have parties.

Almost sounds like "they can buy a cake, just not a wedding cake" doesn't it?

a reply to: 200Plus

Don't you think that lesbians have bachelorette parties too? If you can prove that this bar allowed lesbian bachelorette parties, but not straight girl bachelorette parties - you might have a valid case.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

The people who use the bible as an excuse to discriminate against gays is sickening.

It was used in the same way to try and prevent interracial marriage.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
Don't you think that lesbians have bachelorette parties too?

One can only wish.

a reply to: 200Plus

This is just like the Christian baker who said he was going to stop doing wedding cakes specifically so he didn't have to do cakes for gay weddings. His intent was to make a point, but it was totally within the law as long as he consistently didn't do wedding cakes for anyone.

a reply to: kaylaluv

In states that don't allow gay marriage?

That was the point of them not allowing the heterosexual bachelorette parties in the first place. They said they wouldn't allow them until gay marriage was legal. The point of lesbian bachelorettes in that instance doesn't make sense.

I admit used an example that couldn't be spun as homophobic. You have surprised me with the lesbian bachelorette spin

originally posted by: nwtrucker

The line made by the Christians is we will serve but we will not contribute to ceremonies which goes against our religious teachings.

First of all, you don't speak for all Christians.

If you don't want to be involved in ceremonies you don't like, fine, but let's have it both ways.

When people don't want to be involved in public Pharisee ceremonies stop accusing them of trying to remove religion from the public sphere or destroying "Christian" American principles or waging a war on "Christians."

originally posted by: nwtrucker
The line made by the Christians is we will serve but we will not contribute to ceremonies which goes against our religious teachings.

No one is asking for their contribution or participation. Making a cake for money is NOT contributing or participating.

What gets me about these religious bible thumping types is the huge hypocrisy. They pick and choose what to follow in the bible. The bible says don't eat pork. Pretty much everyone ignores that one, but Jesus hates gays, that one is definitely OK!

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: nwtrucker

The line made by the Christians is we will serve but we will not contribute to ceremonies which goes against our religious teachings.

And there is nothing in the bible which backs up what you are saying. it just says you shouldn't be gay it says nothing about providing services to gays.

I'm not a Christian but we have moved from " the gov't has no business in the bedrooms of the nation" to intimidation of otherwise innocuous individuals and businesses.

These people are using their religion to discriminate against homosexuals. They will lose this fight because there is nothing in the bible that says anyone but God should judge a person.

I think that's how we're eventually going to see this play out. This whole issue came about because extremists within the Christian community feel threatened by a changing world. We're becoming a more "live and let live" society, and it scares the bejeezes out some folks.

When people are scared, they react defensively and aggressively. We're seeing this right now with the proclamation that Christians are "under attack". No, no they're not -- the world itself is changing and moving away from a Christian-centric worldview. Just because the world may be moving in that direction, it doesn't mean that a Christian can't be a Christian. One's beliefs can stay one's beliefs. It just means they won't be in the majority anymore and have their agendas passed as easily.

If you look at history, we move in a more "liberal" direction over time. The music my parents listened to was deemed "devil music" by my grandparents. The right-wing has swung very far to the right in response to this forward progress, and I think it's actually hurting them by alienating the moderates and undecided voters. I know a lot of "conservative" people that are kind of turned off by the extreme right/teaparty types. They've told me they wish they had a "moderate conservative" to vote for.

I think the internet and the speed of information is accelerating this process. We're now able to hear from and get to know people that aren't like us. Whereas before the internet, we were told what other people were like by our parents, pastors, and teachers. In today's modern world we can all get to know a gay man, a muslim or someone else not like us. We can get to know those that don't believe the same things we do, and see that they're not demons or monsters -- they're just people wanting to live their lives in peace too.

I think this is just one of many growing pains our species is going through, and in the end it'll work itself out for the best...it's just going to suck really bad for a while until we can get sorted out though!

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: kaylaluv

In states that don't allow gay marriage?

That was the point of them not allowing the heterosexual bachelorette parties in the first place. They said they wouldn't allow them until gay marriage was legal. The point of lesbian bachelorettes in that instance doesn't make sense.

I admit used an example that couldn't be spun as homophobic. You have surprised me with the lesbian bachelorette spin

Just because you can't get a marriage license, doesn't mean you can't have a ceremony. Even in states that ban gay marriage, some churches will still perform a religious marriage ceremony. Why couldn't you have a bachelorette party before you got married in a church ceremony without the license? A party is just a celebration - there isn't anything official or government-sanctioned about it.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: kaylaluv

In states that don't allow gay marriage?

That was the point of them not allowing the heterosexual bachelorette parties in the first place. They said they wouldn't allow them until gay marriage was legal. The point of lesbian bachelorettes in that instance doesn't make sense.

I admit used an example that couldn't be spun as homophobic. You have surprised me with the lesbian bachelorette spin

Just because you can't get a marriage license, doesn't mean you can't have a ceremony.

Fine. Then get the state completely out of the marriage business. It's not right for the state to have a different set of of legal and financial arrangements for different sets of people in contracts like that. It's also not right for businesses to recognize some contracts for the purpose of providing benefits but not others.

originally posted by: DelMarvel
Then get the state completely out of the marriage business.

That would require some comprehensive legislation as marriage benefits extend to financial, medical, legal and parental rights among many others.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: DelMarvel
Then get the state completely out of the marriage business.

That would require some comprehensive legislation as marriage benefits extend to financial, medical, legal and parental rights among many others.

All right. Then let's just give any two adults who want to get married the same benefits and rights.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

Then let's just give any two adults who want to get married the same benefits and rights.

All for it.

a reply to: buster2010

Actually, you are wrong. They will not lose this fight. The reason being has nothing to do with this, as I call it, 'grey area'.

They will win for the wrong reason. It will be for the harassment of those Christians that will back-lash on the gay community. Even gays has come out and said leave those 'Christians alone"- google it- and those that were ambivalent to the issue will move to support the Christians on this one.

You can't threaten death and arson without a serious response.

P.S. reread the bible.....

originally posted by: nwtrucker

You can't threaten death and arson without a serious response.

That was an unknown minority of the gay community. And, no, that should never happen. But you can't hold that against everyone.

A&E also received many death threats over the Duck Dynasty controversy. You don't think some of those came from people calling themselves Christian?

They are not saying they will not serve people but will not cater to a private gathering. Do you expect a Muslim business to serve pork? Or do you expect a Jewish business to make cakes for Nazis? No one is being asked at the door what they believe in so that they can be discriminated against by not being served in a public setting. Are Jewish business discriminating against non Jewish by making only kosher foods? It’s odd that the gay community is so intolerant to others beliefs yet they want everyone to accept their views.

originally posted by: damwel
I want to see how they act when Christians are turned away from businesses. This law is obviously an attempt to legally discriminate against nonchristian religions. I would love to see nonchristian business close their doors to all Christians to give them a taste of their own medicine.

originally posted by: damwel
I want to see how they act when Christians are turned away from businesses. This law is obviously an attempt to legally discriminate against nonchristian religions. I would love to see nonchristian business close their doors to all Christians to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Most if not all these cases even the recent hypothetical one have to do with gay union or marriage events. Doing business in the store, in the shop is really not the issue and not really a stress as no one cares, no one asks. A person is there for pizza there are no questions.

Let us not be so arrogant as to suppose that a gay marriage event isn't going to be a challenge to someone's personal religious convictions. We are just going to see conscientious objections, dissidence ect.