Rick Santorum Quotes WBC To Defend Indiana's Religious Freedom Law

a reply to: Annee

Current poll? Bull sugar!!

The 'polls' have been rigged for years.

Spin, spin, spin.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Annee

Current poll? Bull sugar!!

The 'polls' have been rigged for years.

Spin, spin, spin.

That's your spin, because you don't want it to be true.

Polls in 2015
A February–March 2015 Wall Street Journal poll found that 59% of Americans favor same-sex marriage.

A January–February 2015 Human Rights Campaign poll found that 60% of Americans favor same-sex marriage, while 37% oppose. The same poll also found that 46% of respondents say they know a same-sex couple who have gotten married.

A February 12–15, 2015 CNN/ORC poll found that 63% of Americans believe same-sex marriage is a constitutional right, while 36% oppose.

Polls in 2014

A September–October 2014 YouGov poll found 48% of Americans favor same-sex marriage, 39% oppose, and 13% weren't sure.

A Pew Research Center poll released in September 2014 found 49% of Americans favor same-sex marriage, 41% oppose, and 10% don't know.

A Gallup poll conducted in May 2014 found that 55% of Americans support allowing marriage for same-sex couples, 42% opposed, and 4% had no opinion on the issue. This was the largest percentage ever measured by the organization.

An April 2014 Public Religion Research Institute poll sponsored by the Ford Foundation found that 55% of all Americans supported same-sex marriage, while 39% were opposed.

A Pew Research Center poll released in March 2014 found 54% of Americans favor same-sex marriage, 39% oppose, and 7% don't know. It also researched support for same-sex marriage among Republican leaning voters in the United States. 61% of Republican leaning voters aged 18–29 support allowing same-sex couples to marry, while only 27% of Republican leaning voters over 50 years of age are supportive.52% of Republican voters aged 18–50 support same-sex marriage.

A Washington Post/ABC News poll from February–March 2014 found a record high of 59% of Americans approve of same-sex marriage, with only 34% opposed and 7% with no opinion. The poll also revealed that 53% of the population in the States that currently do not allow same-sex couples to marry approve of same-sex marriage. 50% of respondents said that the United States Constitution guarantees the freedom to marry the person of one's choice, regardless of that persons's sex or sexual orientation. 41% disagreed, and 9% had no opinion. The same poll also found that 81% of people found that businesses should not be allowed to refuse to serve gays and lesbians. 16% disagreed, and 3% had no opinion. 78% thought that gay couples can be "just as good parents" as straight couples, while 18% disagreed and 4% had no opinion.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Annee

Spin, spin, spin. Republic yes.

Those same 'representatives' did vote on it. Defined it. (t the state level) That majority still rules, Democracy/representative republic.

The native Americans chose the opposite.

So would the rest of us given that 'right' back to where it's supposed to be...the people....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Annee

Spin, spin, spin. Republic yes.

Those same 'representatives' did vote on it. Defined it. That majority still rules, Democracy/representative republic.

The native Americans chose the opposite.

So would the rest of us given that 'right' back to where it's supposed to be...the people....

You wanna back those claims up?

Oh, and let's make that Native American Christians to be accurate.

"Where its supposed to be"? You actually said that

That’s what happens when a culture has been all but destroyed by religion and modernity. All of the religious orders that came west to convert the Indians, religions from Catholics to Mormons, all had a variation of beliefs that saw nothing good about homosexuality. I have only the words of modern medicine or holy men and women to describe to me how gay and lesbians played a role in the ancient cultures of Native Americans. Even using the words Native American in this context is exasperating because there was no “America” in the early cultures and traditions of the indigenous people of the Western Hemisphere, hence no Native American.

To attempt to define gay and lesbian in today’s Indian country is like trying to describe the colors in a shirt that has been left hanging on the clothes line in the hot sun for too many days. The color is all but gone and every effort to bring back that color creates a false image.

And so I will take the word of the modern medicine men and women who claim that homosexuality was a known and respected segment of the traditional Indian culture.

Tim Giago, an Oglala Lakota, was born and raised on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. He was the founder and first president of the Native American Journalists Association, a Nieman Fellow at Harvard, and he was inducted into the South Dakota Newspaper Hall of Fame in 2007.

www.nativetimes.com...

a reply to: Annee

You know perfectly well the States that had marriage defined and back by law. You also know those SCOUS and appellate courts that overturned them.

I will summarize and end my participation on this thread.

Equal is an arithmetical concept. Virtually no two things are 'equal' in the real world. It is also a subjective, arbitrary designation and apparently constantly changing.

This particular equality push encroaches on the first Amendment by violating the 10th Amendment.

Where this all ends up, I haven't the foggiest idea....

What I do know, without any doubt, that you will face a much tougher fight of it that you thought/think. As usual, the strongest will decide what the 'rights' are and which to enforce or give lip-service to. My bet goes to the majority....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Annee

You know perfectly well the States that had marriage defined and back by law. You also know those SCOUS and appellate courts that overturned them.

I will summarize and end my participation on this thread.

Equal is an arithmetical concept. Virtually no two things are 'equal' in the real world. It is also a subjective, arbitrary designation and apparently constantly changing.

This particular equality push encroaches on the first Amendment by violating the 10th Amendment.

Where this all ends up, I haven't the foggiest idea....

What I do know, without any doubt, that you will face a much tougher fight of it that you thought/think. As usual, the strongest will decide what the 'rights' are and which to enforce or give lip-service to. My bet goes to the majority....

Do you even know what you're talking about?

You aren't making much sense.

First off - - no one is interfering with the right of Religious belief (1st amendment). Acting on that belief in a service business to deny rights of another - - is a different story. Every current court case so far has disallowed religious belief as reason to discriminate.

The big problem is Amendment 10 and 14.

Do I believe marriage equality is a "slam dunk" by the SCOTUS? NO. Although 14 will probably trump 10.

The 10th is the final amendment outlining the Bill of Rights. It says: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserves to the states respectively, or to the people.”

That’s pretty clear, yes? It means the states have power not reserved by the Constitution for the federal government.

OK, then came the 14th Amendment, ratified not long after the Civil War. It’s much lengthier and covers a lot of issues relating to rights of citizenship. But at the end of Section 1, it states that no state “shall deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Granted, the nine men and women of the nation’s highest court know a lot more about the law and the Constitution than I do, but my reading of the issue at hand is pretty clear. I believe the 14th Amendment trumps the 10th.

The issue as I see it is whether gay couples have the same right to marry as heterosexual couples. The Constitution, as federal judges have been ruling already, says they do. The Constitution lays out clearly that citizens shall not be deprived of “equal protection.” If that language in the 14th Amendment didn’t exist, I suppose you could argue that states — such as Texas — have the legal standing to ban same-sex marriage.

I do believe, though, that the language contained within the 14th Amendment makes it impossible for states to enact laws that override the Constitution.

highplainsblogger.com...

a reply to: nwtrucker

Deliberately missing the point? No. I am pointing out that the reason these tribes feel the way they do about homosexual marriage is because of Christian influences on them. Christians have corrupted their values and spirituality since before Christian influence, they wouldn't have gave two craps about gay marriage.