Missouri Lawmakers Don't Want Food Stamp Recipients To Buy Steak

Oh and the number one best reason to not do this which all those that are worried about the cost need to consider.

With or without this arbitrary restriction, the cost of the program remains the same, but now we need to fund all these changes to make sure items no longer considered allowable can be bought with the card. Which means you've just used more of everyone's money for the express purpose of limiting the card's functionality while the overall cost didn't change one iota.

You're demanding we spend government money just to add a restriction for the same cost as the original price.

So let's ignore all the humanitarian stuff for a minute and get down to the nit and gritty, this change you all are clamoring for will cost a lot of money and ultimately doesn't really do anything positive.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Puppylove
Or since it's the same cost either way, we can leave it be and focus on more important matters. All more regulation does is cost more for less gain.

I would rather people get off of the program. Limiting types of junk might get people to actually eat healthier and maybe say "boy this sucks" and work towards being able to buy their junk foods they love so much from a pay check...

S

I asked this of another poster earlier but didn't get a response. Why is it so important for those at the bottom of the income scale to think life sucks? Do you not think that the motivation of being able to do things like save for retirement, travel, take vacations, own nice vehicles, have fancy electronics, and all the rest aren't enough of a motivator for people to want to better themselves?

How many people that make $35,000/year stop trying to earn more money? Their lives are relatively comfortable compared to the poor. Do you, who I am assuming is well off, and others in your income bracket cease trying to earn more money just because you have a bit of comfort?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

You can't buy toiletries or cleaning products either and those are useful items but, I'm sure there was a group of legislators that drew a line somewhere.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

They are not considered food. How will booze help them on their feet and work? Can you eat cigarettes?

I consider booze and cigars as part of my pyramid food source, things that I feel make my life better. I'm fortunate that I can buy the best in both... Do you consider soda, chips, candy, heavily process foods as anything different?

What I'm talking about is that a person should "buy" with a pay check the stuff that is beyond what we would consider "food" basics.

There was a time in my life that I would not indulge in what I do today, I could not afford it, or would not waste money I needed for other more important things than a 20 buck cigar or a 150 bucks bottle of scotch.

I do not see chips soda etc as anything different other than the price here. If a person can buy a coke, which is pure indulgence with no health or food benefit, why not beer, or a 150 dollar bottle of scotch?

When I was low rank in the military I bought extremely basic foods... I didn't buy crap, didn't have money for crap... Why should EBT holders have that option when the stuff they might buy is really not nutritious in anyway? I can tell you when you only have 30 bucks you do not buy chips with it if that is all you have to eat...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Do you consider soda, chips, candy, heavily process foods as anything different?

They are food.

Are you suggesting that they should stick to tap water? Chips? LOL you can make that easily with potatoes. I've done that few times.

If a person can buy a coke, which is pure indulgence with no health or food benefit

LOL you can buy pop for under 50 cents. Koolaid? Less than 20 cents a packet.

Why do you care what people buy with their food stamp? If they are going to buy expensive food (doesn't matter if they have health benefit), they are going to suffer as they do not have enough money to spend for a month!

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

They are not considered food. How will booze help them on their feet and work? Can you eat cigarettes?

I consider booze and cigars as part of my pyramid food source, things that I feel make my life better. I'm fortunate that I can buy the best in both... Do you consider soda, chips, candy, heavily process foods as anything different?

Yet, neither alcohol or cigars appear on the food pyramid according to doctors and nutritionists (though they do appear on Maslow's hierarchy which is also pyramid shaped). In the case of cigars there is no nutritional value at all, it is not a food or beverage. Alcohol is largely limited because they want people to actually eat rather than drink their misery away.

One can live off of soda, chips, and candy though there are long term consequences. One cannot live off of just beer or wine, and when one does they tend to become an alcoholic.

originally posted by: Aazadan
I asked this of another poster earlier but didn't get a response. Why is it so important for those at the bottom of the income scale to think life sucks? Do you not think that the motivation of being able to do things like save for retirement, travel, take vacations, own nice vehicles, have fancy electronics, and all the rest aren't enough of a motivator for people to want to better themselves?

I'll answer you unlike the other poster...

There is a reason why the most heavy subsisted group is also the poorest... the American Indian, and the second most subsisted group is the second most poorest, African American. Many humans (I say humans because it is not an Indian or Black thing) in general will give all that up for a really crappy life if it means zero investment.

I know I have a sister like that where she has lived this lifestyle her whole life.

How many people that make $35,000/year stop trying to earn more money?

How many people do not even try if they can just squeak by with little effort?

Their lives are relatively comfortable compared to the poor. Do you, who I am assuming is well off, and others in your income bracket cease trying to earn more money just because you have a bit of comfort?

Not everyone is the same... Do you think the top 5% got there because of luck?

I can see 100 million in America that I would not wish their life on anyone, but they live it, and they are not trying to do better, not getting a head in life in any direction at all. They do it because they can... plain and simple.

Remember there is another 230 million that are trying, so don't try and say I'm lumping all the poor in one category, but we do have a very large number of people who want to do nothing at all if they can....

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Why do you care what people buy with their food stamp? If they are going to buy expensive food (doesn't matter if they have health benefit), they are going to suffer as they do not have enough money to spend for a month!

I care because I want people to do better, live better, and they will not do it on their own...

Ok, I give up let some poor slop eat themselves into a huge mass of flesh and die at 40, one less person we need to support...

a reply to: Xtrozero

I care because I want people to do better, live better, and they will not do it on their own...

Right!!! I provided you a link to that article which proves that people do want to do better!!!!!!

You are focusing too much on those small minority who abuse the system for some reason.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Yet, neither alcohol or cigars appear on the food pyramid according to doctors and nutritionists (though they do appear on Maslow's hierarchy which is also pyramid shaped). In the case of cigars there is no nutritional value at all, it is not a food or beverage. Alcohol is largely limited because they want people to actually eat rather than drink their misery away.

One can live off of soda, chips, and candy though there are long term consequences. One cannot live off of just beer or wine, and when one does they tend to become an alcoholic.

I think a guy lived 20 years on wine alone... but I digress. Beer saved humans from extinction...but I digressed again.

I think you get my point...the crap foods/drinks are not on any food pyramid I ever seen either... hehe

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

You are focusing too much on those small minority who abuse the system for some reason.

I do not think it is a small minority...just because a person works some doesn't elevate them into wanting to do better in life...

a reply to: Xtrozero

You think most people are abusing food stamp? That it's epidemic?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Ok, I give up let some poor slop eat themselves into a huge mass of flesh and die at 40

Too funny. That poor slop will not be able to afford such food. If they bought the most expensive steaks and seafood and cookies and cakes on food stamp the longest they will last on that will be maybe a week if THAT! Then they will spend their time starving for 4 1/2 weeks.

Here's a good read for you as you consider cookies junk food:

www.bulletproofexec.com...
www.thedailybeast.com...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I'll answer you unlike the other poster...

There is a reason why the most heavy subsisted group is also the poorest... the American Indian, and the second most subsisted group is the second most poorest, African American. Many humans (I say humans because it is not an Indian or Black thing) in general will give all that up for a really crappy life if it means zero investment.

I know I have a sister like that where she has lived this lifestyle her whole life.

Could it possibly be because they have no commercial capability? Look at the reservations, many of them still don't have electricity or clean water. They don't have commercially viable land, and in many they die of diseases that are considered wiped out in the rest of North America. Just about every commercial success from the Native Americans (most of it casinos) required special dispensations so that they could operate their business off of tribal lands.

African Americans are similar. How much time have you spent in inner city slums? That's where most of their population lives. It's not as simple as just moving away. The culture of the area infests a person and holds them down and it has nothing to do with a subsidy.

People aren't content with poverty lifestyles but there is simply nowhere to move up. I look at my own life, I'm relatively well educated (though I still have a bit more schooling to go) and have quite a low income. I will die broke, likely on the street, and probably die young. I'm 30 now, I do not expect to make it to 40, if cuts to disability and food stamps don't get me it will be the extremely high murder and home invasion rate in my town. It's not because I don't want to do better, I've worked on that part... I hold 3 college degrees and going for another, my GPA is high, and I was even valedictorian for one of them. I'm competent on a list of development software longer than my arm, and can develop virtually anything. None of that is worth a damn. Want to know why? Employers don't hire poor people. Part of the employment process in any serious job involves a credit check, and when you're poor you're going to fail that credit check. Hence there is nowhere to move up to. Only low paying retail jobs that will be done by robots (that oddly enough, I could program) in 10 years.

How many people that make $35,000/year stop trying to earn more money?

How many people do not even try if they can just squeak by with little effort?


I don't know. Every person I have ever met at virtually every level of income always wanted more. Sometimes it was a more modest more such as in my case, and someones the person dreamed big. People however like to have more. If you give some people 20k/year even those people don't just sit around and do nothing. They look around for ways to get more that don't impact their 20k (like selling drugs). When work delivers actual rewards people are more than happy to do it. Look at the jobs people get at the bottom of the income scale though. They're things that a person can't live on... how many people really want to do that? Despite that fact, the percentage of people in the work force is higher among those on food stamps than off them. So that shows me that people do in fact want to work.

Not everyone is the same... Do you think the top 5% got there because of luck?

Luck most certainly played a part, but it wasn't the only part. Anyone on top had to work for it, the luck was in obtaining the opportunity to perform that work in the first place. Maybe one of your bosses took a liking to you, or you scored the right freelance job, or an investment paid off. There's lots of things that could happen but ultimately they involved others cutting you a break, and then you working and sometimes working very, very hard. One of my family members for example is a 1%'er being a CEO and I hear his work schedule all the time. At the office at 5 am, stay until 10pm, go home and eat, then sleep for 4 hours, then back to work. 6 days a week, and then catch up on paperwork on the 7th day. He definitely earns his money, but he's also only in the position to work like that because of things that went his way earlier in his career.

Having talent, ability, and drive is a prerequisite for success, but those things on their own won't get you anywhere. Actually being successful takes the work of others like your bosses and more importantly your customers.

I can see 100 million in America that I would not wish their life on anyone, but they live it, and they are not trying to do better, not getting a head in life in any direction at all. They do it because they can... plain and simple.

I don't know about that. I see many who try and do better. I also see many who don't for a myriad of reasons. Some people like low skill work, others don't want to take the financial risk of school, others aren't school types, others don't know what they would do.

The ones who want to do better will do so without the motivation of additional suffering, and the ones who don't want to do better won't change their habits.

We could fix some of this, but how much of this should we fix? Jobs like cashiers and store stocking still need to be done, and an education doesn't change that. Every business is run by the low skill jobs at the bottom and that's where the majority of people will go. I see it as a bit counter intuitive that the jobs we need the most of, and subsequently produce the most of, are the jobs that will give people the worst lives. Yet, if everyone were to do better... our modern society would collapse.

Low skill jobs are vital. I'm not saying you have to pay them ridiculous wages, but rather I challenge the idea that it should lead to a lifetime of suffering.

Remember there is another 230 million that are trying, so don't try and say I'm lumping all the poor in one category, but we do have a very large number of people who want to do nothing at all if they can....

Then I say, let them. We have a huge shortage of jobs in this country. If people don't want to work and do better, lets let them leave the workforce and get assistance. Maybe $1000/month? Then open up those slots for the people who do want to work. I very much doubt that would burden the system, infact I think it would result in better employees for businesses since they would only be staffed by the people who want to be at that company. The workers would get better treatment, because not working would be viable. The customers would get better treatment as the employees would be motivated. That all leads to better revenues.

a reply to: Aazadan

It's not because I don't want to do better, I've worked on that part... I hold 3 college degrees and going for another, my GPA is high, and I was even valedictorian for one of them. I'm competent on a list of development software longer than my arm, and can develop virtually anything. None of that is worth a damn. Want to know why? Employers don't hire poor people. Part of the employment process in any serious job involves a credit check, and when you're poor you're going to fail that credit check.

Stop looking for a job and start creating your own, you may or may not succeed but if you are armed with the education that you have you stand a better chance than those who don't, but you are gonna say this how do I get start-up money and I'll tell you an old ethnic secret.
Susu Banking System How to avoid Banksters
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Here^ on a thread I made sometime ago
and a sub link below
globalcitynyc.com...
This put our family and many others on the road to middle classdom that's how houses got bought and paid for and kids got educated, my parents never thought that getting a bank loan was much of an option, they simply bypass all that.
Black Incomes Surpass Whites in Queens
www.nytimes.com...
Klk here^ the Blacks being talked about are Caribbeans who did just that ,family members who are trustworthy start with them then friends who are trustworthy for that's the only way it works.
I hear too many defeatism in your above post for a relatively young man with an education.

Rise of the SNAP Gestapo.

a reply to: caladonea

Many people who are on food stamps...did work...paid taxes and became disabled...their monthly disability check is not enough...so they get some help with food. 

Those folks I am all for assistance, it's the ones that spit out kid after kid that do nothing to support them selves. I know a few that game the system personally, nothing wrong with them except being lazy, the husband dose nothing I think the wife has a job at a baby factory because everytime I see her she is pregnant (like right now) .
I'm all for helping the elderly, disabled or as temporary support in a life changing event. It's the ones that take advantage of the system that need to go.

a reply to: hillbilly4rent

it's the ones that spit out kid after kid that do nothing to support them selves. I know a few that game the system personally, nothing wrong with them except being lazy, the husband dose nothing I think the wife has a job at a baby factory because everytime I see her she is pregnant (like right now) .

This is where most people in this thread are confused about. People are mad that some people on food stamp buy "luxury" food when they are not.

If they "game the system" as you say, then let them. They will get caught and many have been caught!

But still why care? We already have laws for those who "game the system". Why add more?

I haven't seen a great deal of this in this thread (except for the one person who saw someone driving up to the "food stamp' office in a white escalade, (which I didn't believe, by the way, that poster was spouting the BS most of us have heard since time began) but in the event you do know of someone who is abusing the system, here are some facts on reporting, and don't hesitate to report. These folks are investigated, heavily fined, and often go to jail. And they have to Pay It Back.

How Can I Report SNAP Fraud?
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Last Published: 11/13/2013




If you see or hear about SNAP fraud, tell us. Help us protect your tax dollars.

FNS takes aggressive measures to fight all fraud. We appreciate the help of concerned citizens.
◾
Fraud reports of any kind may be filed with the USDA Office of Inspector General.
◾Call ◾(800) 424-9121
◾(202) 690-1622
◾(202) 690-1202 (TDD)

◾Write ◾United States Department of Agriculture Office of Inspector General PO Box 23399 Washington, DC 20026-3399

◾Online ◾Electronic Mail ([email protected])




◾
You can also report fraud to your State. This is especially important if you think that someone lied about their income or assets, or is misusing their benefits.


Your report is confidential.

Help us Fight SNAP Fraud.

www.fns.usda.gov...

a reply to: Xtrozero

When I was low rank in the military I bought extremely basic foods... I didn't buy crap, didn't have money for crap... Why should EBT holders have that option

...AND THERE IT IS

thanks for having the honesty to say it.