I don't pay my council tax for this level of welfare!

a reply to: eletheia

You only contribute some money towards your pension. The government provides the rest. It all comes out of the same budget.

Here is a breakdown of government spending:

UK Govt Spending

Pension first, and before welfare is defence and education!

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
a reply to: nerbot

Jamie was in full time work, she has paid some of her dues. At this moment in time, in order for her to look after her baby she needs help, but putting her in an empty flat with nothing in it is not an acceptable environment for someone to have to cope with whilst having just given birth.

If that is the case she is entitled to at least 39 weeks of staturary maternity

pay.

Sure start maternity grant is a one off payment of £500 to help with the cost

of a new baby, if you're on a low income.

I'm sure a modest basic cooker could come from some of that! and I'm sure

there are still places that do interest free credit over a period?

a reply to: eletheia

She left the job. She does not have statutory maternity cover as she is no longer in the employ of them.

Also, that's it if you don't have it- borrow it! Because that has worked out so well for the western world! Whilst all the bankers are still in their sports cars and going on their merry way, in order to pay for a deficit their bad decisions have created, new born's live in flats without carpets, as the conservatives squeeze those in need but don't badger google for their tax money!

Which could pay for all of Swindon to be carpetted!!

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
a reply to: eletheia

She left the job. She does not have statutory maternity cover as she is no longer in the employ of them.

Some people would have crawled into work to make sure they

had funds for their pending arrival ....

Still ... maternity benefits >>>> www.gov.uk...

a reply to: eletheia

The point of this post was not to discuss the deservedness of individuals, who pays for what, and where it goes.

This post was to express at my shock at the standard of accommodation given to a vulnerable new born baby. The whole point of these flats is to create a stable existence in which someone can move on from, and to move past their situation they now find themselves in. These are deemed as vulnerable people, and the government is responsible for them, hence welfare and social services.

The council should not be deeming an empty shell of a flat with no flooring, cooker, fridge, freezer, washing machine, or even a microwave. No provision for storing or preparing food as an acceptable place to put a new born baby. Their duty is to the new born, not the mother.

I looked up how much it costs the government to house and feed prisoners, on average, per year.

2012 - 13
£36,808 - per place
£34,766 - per prisoner
Source
www.gov.uk...

If I'm reading that right, each prisoner costs the sum of those two numbers, so about 71,574 pounds.

So, I wonder how much gets put into the flats per year per person? Are there stats for that? Wouldn't it be a shame for the government to pay more for prisoners than for non-criminals who are financially in need and could use a leg up for themselves and a new baby? Or are these people less or equal to criminals?? Why isn't there also a program to help folks in these circumstances with finding work - i.e. the father of the child? I don't know much about the UK system. Here in the states we pay A LOT per prisoner. (Privatization - lots of profits from our tax dollars, which should be a crime in and of itself.)

Is having a child out of wedlock and being poor, from a poor family, worse than being a criminal? Maybe I'm reading this wrong. If so, please show me how?

- AB

At 18 I left home to get married. I had a mortgage at 19 and had worked since I was 15. I saved up for all those things i needed to call a home and it took me 15 years on catologues to buy the things I needed. I had my 1st child by 20, 2 more followed by the time I was 25. I had lino on the floor and a second hand electric oven. An outside loo and none of these padded nappies you just throw away. Yet it sickens me today how bloody easy these kids want it. When they have done real hardship, like starving as there is only 1 wage going into the house, or no tv then and only then will they get any pity or empathy from me. It's the expectation from people like yourself who feel the council/government owe them something. If you haven't PAID into the system why the hell she you have free hand outs. The kitty/piggy bank can only provide so much. Indeed she is living in a home that costs 400 a month, are you paying that cash? no we are
so i'm sorry if I'm having a rant..
I'M INTITILLED TO

a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

Something has just hit me between the eyes. Your young lady would of have had to have a midwife whom would of called into her flat and checked it over for her and her baby if she went straight there from hospital. The midwife would of made calls in the 1st two weeks of having the baby. The midwife has to check if the home enviroment is safe for that child like heating etc. You can ask the midwife to come back and help with social services to improve conditions.

originally posted by: sussy
At 18 I left home to get married. I had a mortgage at 19 and had worked since I was 15. I saved up for all those things i needed to call a home and it took me 15 years on catologues to buy the things I needed. I had my 1st child by 20, 2 more followed by the time I was 25. I had lino on the floor and a second hand electric oven. An outside loo and none of these padded nappies you just throw away. Yet it sickens me today how bloody easy these kids want it. When they have done real hardship, like starving as there is only 1 wage going into the house, or no tv then and only then will they get any pity or empathy from me. It's the expectation from people like yourself who feel the council/government owe them something. If you haven't PAID into the system why the hell she you have free hand outs. The kitty/piggy bank can only provide so much. Indeed she is living in a home that costs 400 a month, are you paying that cash? no we are
so i'm sorry if I'm having a rant..
I'M INTITILLED TO

LOL!! I think we must be from the same generation/era!

and I always thought I must be the oldest member on ATS.


I used brush and dustpan and scrubbed lino floors, some of them. where

the pattern lifted if you scrubbed too much, no inlaid floors then, and a

carpet was the height of luxury Didn't get a vaccume cleaner till

after the birth of my third child... took clothes to the laundrette till I

could afford a washer (twin tub - remember them?) on HP. Waited till

I could afford a fridge.

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific


This post was to express at my shock at the standard of accommodation given to a vulnerable new born baby.

No it was given to an adult, who needs to make it into an environment fit

for the child which is her responsibility. She had at least 35 weeks to

prepare for the arrival. and get together basic necessities.

The whole point of these flats is to create a stable existence in which someone can move on from, and to move past their situation they now find themselves in. These are deemed as vulnerable people, and the government is responsible for them, hence welfare and social services.

If she feels she is not getting 'enough' ask welfare and social services... she

is probably getting as much as anyone else in her circumstances is getting,

The council should not be deeming an empty shell of a flat with no flooring, cooker, fridge, freezer, washing machine, or even a microwave. No provision for storing or preparing food as an acceptable place to put a new born baby. Their duty is to the new born, not the mother.

The council is not there to provide *a standard of living*

No flooring?? ... I think you mean "bare boards" which can be scrubbed and

stained or cheap? lino?

People can survive without freezers and washing machines, after all these

days they don't have "terry nappies" and baby clothes can be hand washed?

I don't/can't believe the council are renting out somewhere that has no

kitchen cupboards or work surfaces?

a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

It seems obvious to me that you are placing a huge amount of responsibility on the council and welfare and pretty much NONE on the mother and parents of the mother of this child.

THIS IS ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY that makes people ignorant and selfish.

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CONCEPTION, BIRTH AND UPKEEP OF A CHILD OR DON'T HAVE ONE.

Reading that you think this girl is entitled to so many things like a freezer or microwave proves this point and you need to tell the difference between needs and wants.

********* parasites! Makes me SICK SICK SICK......especially as I am living on the breadline having contributed to the UK system for 20 years and now have to apply for ****** red cross food parcels SO I CAN EAT TO SURVIVE.

SICK
SICK
SICK

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific




Most of the government's money in their budget goes on pensions, not on social care for those that have found themselves in circumstances that they need help getting themselves through.

How dare the Government give money to people that worked all their life, instead of ignorant chavs living on welfare, filling up council flats and breeding like cockroaches.

originally posted by: eletheia

Pensioners are not getting *benefits* they get *pensions* which they earned

and paid for during their working lives .

NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Do you realise that someone who spends part or all of their time on benefits still gets a state pension?

How can they have earned it when all they have done is be supported by the state?

Scrounging has to stop. Take away the benefits and people will actually have to THINK about their place in society rather than take a free back seat.

originally posted by: nerbot

originally posted by: eletheia

Pensioners are not getting *benefits* they get *pensions* which they earned

and paid for during their working lives .

NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Do you realise that someone who spends part or all of their time on benefits still gets a state pension?

How can they have earned it when all they have done is be supported by the state?

Scrounging has to stop. Take away the benefits and people will actually have to THINK about their place in society rather than take a free back seat.

I've not read the whole thread but you do realise that unemployment is somewhat benificial for the economy.

Also there are many reasons for people claiming benifits in the UK and the demonisation of these people is media propaganda.

There are many benifits in the UK and a good thing too in my opinion, I like to live in a world where those in need can be helped.

originally posted by: nerbot


NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Do you realise that someone who spends part or all of their time on benefits still gets a state pension?

How can they have earned it when all they have done is be supported by the state?

Yes I do ... and pension payments are not all equal either. I with my

employment history get the full pension. However I know of one case and

there must be many others where the pension earned by someone is less

than the government states is a required income.

This person getting a couple of £'s a week less than me applied for 'benefits'

and received them!! No longer required to pay council tax or dental

treatment and other perks amounting to over £100 per month.

So from being about £10 a month worse off than me .... she is now over

£100 better off than me!!!

*HOW CAN THAT BE FAIR ?*

Scrounging has to stop. Take away the benefits and people will actually have to THINK about their place in society rather than take a free back seat.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: nerbot


NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Do you realise that someone who spends part or all of their time on benefits still gets a state pension?

How can they have earned it when all they have done is be supported by the state?

Yes I do ... and pension payments are not all equal either. I with my

employment history get the full pension. However I know of one case and

there must be many others where the pension earned by someone is less

than the government states is a required income.

This person getting a couple of £'s a week less than me applied for 'benefits'

and received them!! No longer required to pay council tax or dental

treatment and other perks amounting to over £100 per month.

So from being about £10 a month worse off than me .... she is now over

£100 better off than me!!!

*HOW CAN THAT BE FAIR ?*

Scrounging has to stop. Take away the benefits and people will actually have to THINK about their place in society rather than take a free back seat.

So is your issue with the question of what a local council deems acceptable for a vunerable person and newborn baby can recive as a start in life or that you feel cheated personally because after towing the line for most of your life those that have in your eyes not done are in the same or better position?

They seem to be 2 seperate issues IMO.

originally posted by: abe froman

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific




Most of the government's money in their budget goes on pensions, not on social care for those that have found themselves in circumstances that they need help getting themselves through.

How dare the Government give money to people that worked all their life, instead of ignorant chavs living on welfare, filling up council flats and breeding like cockroaches.

So they are all ignorant chavs breeding like cockroaches, I must commend you on looking into the personal circumstances of so many individuals, do you perchance read many tabloid newspapers?

Divine and conquer is a proven method of controlling a population but hey, you keep on thinking we are any different.

Unless you are part of the elite in that case we are.

originally posted by: nonspecific


So is your issue with the question of what a local council deems acceptable for a vunerable person and newborn baby can recive as a start in life or that you feel cheated personally because after towing the line for most of your life those that have in your eyes not done are in the same or better position?

They seem to be 2 seperate issues IMO.

I was replying to a specific question by another poster....

I think I have made my feelings quite clear in my posts on the other issue

originally posted by: sussy
a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

Something has just hit me between the eyes. Your young lady would of have had to have a midwife whom would of called into her flat and checked it over for her and her baby if she went straight there from hospital. The midwife would of made calls in the 1st two weeks of having the baby. The midwife has to check if the home enviroment is safe for that child like heating etc. You can ask the midwife to come back and help with social services to improve conditions.

It's funny you should say that as mrsnonspecific were saying the same thing in real life earlier, The person in question has only just moved into the accomadation after the baby was born.

I said that if social services turned up at a house with a newborn with no means to cook food or clean they would be concerned with the saftey of the baby.

Thi as said was never about the benifit system but about what a system designed to look after the saftey of the vunerable deems acceptable.

If my neighbour was in the same situation I would be worried about there ability to look after a small child as a first time parent.

a reply to: abe froman

"Chav" is just a way to demonize what used to be the working class, before most of the manufacturing jobs were destroyed/moved to china, often leading to whole communities losing their only source of employment, leading to those communities losing pretty much everything they had and slowly dying because, well.. because Thatcher wanted them to.

It is just so short sighted to blame a nation's woes on those with the least power and opportunity, rather than focussing on those who make the decisions and profit from them.