Breaking: Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France

a reply to: MRuss

There are at least 27 families they were still trying to notify as of an hour ago. Depending on how they fly sometimes pilots don't come home for a couple days, so not coming home yesterday isn't always a sign that it was one of the pilots on this plane.

I've seen crashes here where it was a lot more than two days before we had crew names released. They'll be released when they're released.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

There's the emergency entry procedure. They could still break the door down. It's reinforced, not unbreakable. If nothing else some planes have a fire ax on board to break through the cabin walls in the event of being trapped.

I was under the impression that the emergency procedure wouldn't work if the the pilot had the switch to ''lock'' position, red light would be on the keypad

I'm still guessing it would take a bit of time to get through that door.

a reply to: Zaphod58

In this day and age, loose ends like this in a plane crash are really disturbing. Too often, things don't add up.

But the next day there's a tornado in Oklahoma and everyone forgets. We let it go. Or we accept the trumped up version. People stop questioning.

Someone needs to do a "Loose Ends" type video on the mysterious plane crashes we've weathered as of late.

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

But a nice slow descent gives them time.

originally posted by: oddnutz

what would be the odds of one pilot quietly succumbing or being incapacitated due to a medical problem while the other pilot is outside of the cockpit?

if that is what happened then they need to have someone (even if it is someone completely untrained) in the cockpit so that there is never just one person in there. that person can just open the door that's his or her whole job.

EDIT: i just heard that this is already the rule on American owned airlines. I do not know if that is the case with German airlines.

a reply to: MRuss

It's not loose ends. Investigations, including releasing names, takes time. Not everything is going to be released immediately.

Anybody with more knowledge than myself on big jets know what the ballpark stall speed or dive would be if the jet lost its wing-shape and lift due to a failure of the de-icing system?

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: oddnutz

what would be the odds of one pilot quietly succumbing or being incapacitated due to a medical problem while the other pilot is outside of the cockpit?

if that is what happened then they need to have someone (even if it is someone completely untrained) in the cockpit so that there is never just one person in there. that person can just open the door that's his or her whole job.

EDIT: i just heard that this is already the rule on American owned airlines. I do not know if that is the case with German airlines.

The flight attendant is supposed to enter the cockpit.. but it does not always work out that way.

a reply to: Mandroid7

It depends on a lot of factors, such as load, altitude, aircraft configuration, etc.

a reply to: Mandroid7

207 km/h ( 111.7 knots or 128mph ) don't quote me though. That's just normal flight .. but with added weight of ice?

What Zaphod said.



But if iced wings were the case.. a steady 8 minute decent without sings of fighting the plane is not likely.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Avicenne

If the pilot still in the cockpit is dealing with a problem, the LAST thing he's worried about is unlocking the door.

Spoken like someone who's got some common sense.

Plus, unless it went bonkers, don't most planes these days fly on auto pilot?

Even if the co-pilot had a health emergency, was abducted by aliens or spontaneously combusted (outside of the plane, of course) the auto pilot would have been flying the plane anyway, right? AP would've allowed time for the captain to obtain a key or whatever it is they do to get through the locked door, am I right?

a reply to: lovebeck

Usually yes. But if the disconnect is anything like on the older jets I worked on, if the pilot in the cockpit had a medical condition he could have accidentally disconnected it pretty easily. There was a red button under your thumb on the yoke that you pushed, and it disconnected.

Did they release information on the timeframe of the pilot knocking lightly, and then banging loudly? Obviously they are controlling the information they release, but you would assume passengers, etc. would join in in trying to break down the door. Now if the banging loudly occurred somewhere in the middle of the 8 minute descent, you would also assume MANY people would be trying to communicate with their mobile phones...wonder if that information will be shared with the public soon. After all, apparently dozens of "phone conversations" were carried out during 9/11, you would assume if the passengers were aware of an issue, they would be calling like crazy.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah, there has to be a ton of factors going into it, I probably didn't word my question right.

But I wonder if this isn't what happened.

It seems like they got up to altitude and gradually plummeted or lost lift. I'm wondering if this isn't what happened. They wouldn't just drop from the sky, but more controlled like they maintained power but started to dive.

A heavy, wet cloud above the mountains would do this quick, if the heated wing edge or bags failed to shed it.

a reply to: Mandroid7

American Eagle lost an ATR-72 when they were hit with rain that rolled back onto the wing behind the deicing boots before freezing. They went into a dive and were able to recover, went into a second dive, and when they tried to recover the forces involved snapped the aft fuselage off just ahead of the vertical fin.

a reply to: Zaphod58

What's to stop a terrorist from extorting that emergency procedure out of the flight crew? I would think that the switch in the "lock" position would be the final decider on the door for security reasons.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

A determined terrorist is GOING to succeed, no matter what we do. We can put the best defenses we can in place, but someone who is truly determined will get past them.

a reply to: pejanene

But how? Cell phones don't work in the air...at least that high up in altitude.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And sometimes not at all.

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Avicenne

If the pilot still in the cockpit is dealing with a problem, the LAST thing he's worried about is unlocking the door.

Spoken like someone who's got some common sense.

Common sense? It would probably be one of the FIRST things you are worried about. You don't want someone thinking you are on a suicide mission and then jumping on you after you break the door down.

Just because someone might know a few technical facts that doesn't mean they are experts in human behavior.
Watch a few criminal trials. The defense in their closing argument employs the same type and STYLE of speech that some posters do here.

They spit out a few technical facts and then belittle any logical explanation. They are experts at making one in a million coincidences sound more reasonable than the simple explanation that someone did something evil.

The entire argument that pilots wouldn't communicate with ground or even each other during an emergency is absolutely silly and defies common sense. My car went into a skid for about 20 seconds and even I was able to talk my passengers during it.