No, You are NOT a Warrior/Operator/Revolutionary!

just because some of us out there didnot follow the lies told by gov. recruiters does not mean we any less capable than you who did.
1 lots of us have been hunting all manner of creatures since childhood. any one of my friends can take down a deer at extreme range with their 30-06 or .308.
2 i live in an area full of marine bases and most of us leared from teen years on up how to hand them their posteriors
3 i may be fatter than you nut i can lift 3 times my body weight and have no trouble covering 20 to 30 miles in a day of foot
4 there is always week end warriors out there that is true but don't judge everyone the same and never assume you better than the next one that can get you killed on battlefield.

a reply to: projectvxn

So what we have here is self-loathing and projection of what you are and you project that onto the rest of those that say they are warriors or whatever. You are probably a basement dwelling keyboard commando with delusions of grandeur. You are better than everyone arent you?

The reality is you hide in your moms apron and shudder at the thought of living in the real word..

That is what I see when you are flapping your gums though guy..

originally posted by: projectvxn
Being in the firearms community has its drawbacks. Especially if you're a combat vet.

All day long I see posts and comments from guys who buy a plate carrier, a rifle with some rails, and a Glock 19, engage in conversations about combat tactics, what "they would do" in a SHTF situation, and how badass they are because they have the latest gear. This rant addresses those people. If you are one of those people, listen closely.

1. You are NOT a sniper, or expert marksman if all you ever do is shoot at stationary targets at an indoor range at 25 yards. You are not a good shot if your groups from your Glock 19 are 8 inches at 7 yards and you have the cojones to call that "combat accuracy" as if you know anything about combat.

2. Buying a plate carrier, a bunch of cool looking multicam uniforms, hard knuckle gloves, and a backpack you fill up with crap you'll never use does NOT make you a soldier. Your fat ass can't even run 50 ft or drag a requisite 170lbs man with gear on for 25 yards.

3. You can't spend your way into being a soldier/SF operator. That takes commitment, physical endurance and training your fat ass doesn't want to do. You just wanna look the part and hope no one notices your gut hanging over your multicam pistol belt.

4. You don't get to talk about combat if you can't even commit to changing the above points 1-3. Playing Call of Duty does not make you experienced in ground combat. The second someone starts shooting at you, the minute a bullet actually hits something near you, you will realize how woefully inadequate you are for the task of (A) repelling an attack on your position, (B) suppressing an enemy, (C) keeping your # together long enough to PROPERLY break contact without getting killed.

5. You are not a 3 percenter, revolutionary, or freedom fighter. You're a fat ass Joe Nobody plopped down in front of your computer on forums and facebook talking trash about things you can't control and don't have the discipline to do anything about while you pose for photo-ops with all of your expensive gear and firearms.

6. People you care about die in combat. You are neither prepared for, nor do you understand the process of watching your friends die while STILL having to do your job. God knows as a soldier I wasn't prepared for it, I have no doubt someone with no training and ideas of grandeur would fall apart the second an enemy bullet pierces the skull of your closest buddy. Stop pretending you could handle it. Stop pretending that it's something you could do.

7. PT. Don't even talk about PT right?

This is what I see when you people flap your gums

You're fat...Even if you're not, you eat like crap. You lead a sedentary lifestyle. You don't research ways of exercising to better yourself and maybe cutting it close enough to keep up with a basic level soldier out of a supply MOS, let alone the Infantry or operator level guys you want to emulate. You put no effort in. You can't even walk long distances without passing out from exhaustion. Your bones are weak, your muscles are weaker still...You bought all this god damned gear you can't even haul around at the range without getting winded and worn out and you want people to believe you could hack it in combat?

Time to wake up GI Joe.

--End Rant--

First, I claim none of the above nor any of the skills/experience you mention. I am pretty much a hippy pacifist.

However, while understanding your critique of "armchair" warriors, I think that many of them would and could rise to the occasion if forced to do so. Is that not what happened to the vast majority of random ass people drafted or volunteering in let's say Vietnam of WWII. Most were farm boys or even school teachers. This does however, support your view that until someone experiences it, we do not know how they will do nor how well they can handle the impact psychologically. Nor will they be truly trained. We cannot truly mimic in any kind of training real combat situations.

I do not think that a good option though is to join some random war or military situation just to get up to speed. So then what else can these people do?

originally posted by: proteus33
just because some of us out there didnot follow the lies told by gov. recruiters does not mean we any less capable than you who did.
1 lots of us have been hunting all manner of creatures since childhood. any one of my friends can take down a deer at extreme range with their 30-06 or .308.
2 i live in an area full of marine bases and most of us leared from teen years on up how to hand them their posteriors
3 i may be fatter than you nut i can lift 3 times my body weight and have no trouble covering 20 to 30 miles in a day of foot
4 there is always week end warriors out there that is true but don't judge everyone the same and never assume you better than the next one that can get you killed on battlefield.

I agree with this.

The very reason that many of us DO NOT have military experience is that we know that the government and military lies all of the time, especially as to the reasons for and ethical nature of various wars. I am no coward, and I am sure would be able to handle war as well as the next person. I also can handle myself in non-armed fighting, so it's not a lack of ability.

I just refuse to fight in illegal, immoral, and imperialistic wars. Which means I don't get the opportunity to get real combat experience.

originally posted by: proteus33
just because some of us out there didnot follow the lies told by gov. recruiters does not mean we any less capable than you who did.
1 lots of us have been hunting all manner of creatures since childhood. any one of my friends can take down a deer at extreme range with their 30-06 or .308.
2 i live in an area full of marine bases and most of us leared from teen years on up how to hand them their posteriors
3 i may be fatter than you nut i can lift 3 times my body weight and have no trouble covering 20 to 30 miles in a day of foot
4 there is always week end warriors out there that is true but don't judge everyone the same and never assume you better than the next one that can get you killed on battlefield.

LOL

Are you tacticool?
Hunting deer and hunting men are not the same thing. Sitting in your tree stand while a 6-12 man group are quietly and smartly doing a security patrol in your ao would present quite a bit of hazard to you if you were by yourself and probably with your hunting buddies. As far as you telling the world here about the battlefield you have never been to one so how do you know about judgment of others? Being able to assess a persons posture and make a judgement on that is an assumption and that is the difference between living or dying cause some a hole had a suicide vest on. Are you equipped to do 20-30 miles a day in a combat situation? I know that doing a 10 mile hump is brutal but a 20 mile is even worse. When I did my 20 mi with full gear, weapons, and ammo I know I was hurt, my feet were bleeding, I at some points was sleep walking holding the pack of the guy in front of me kind of in and out of it. Granted it was not a combat exercise it was for endurance and at the end of the day I got to dig a fighting hole and sleep in 2 man shifts while the training only started. Since you did not sign up due to all the lies and what not why would you fight anyone anyways? I mean if it came down to you and your hunting buddies obviously the threat is fake cause it was on tv so you can just go back to sleep with your wife and go on your leisurely hunting trips with your comrades obviously the government put that bs out there on tv and there's nothing to see.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I do not think that a good option though is to join some random war or military situation just to get up to speed. So then what else can these people do?

There are so many places, staffed by former combat vets, many of whom were special operations soldiers, Rangers, SEALs, and so on.

Many of these companies you have heard of. Blackwater-Xe-Academie, EXO, AKOU, Magpul Dynamics, and tons of other organizations train civilians in squad level tactics, survival, marksmanship, and some also train airborne operations, night infiltration tactics, force on force, and many other aspects of small unit SF type training. This training is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

a reply to: truckdriver42

I am a currently serving soldier in the US Army.

I am a member of an Air Assault unit.

What I find most interesting is the folks that take it so personally that they feel the need to lash out at me. That says far more about you than it does about me.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I do not think that a good option though is to join some random war or military situation just to get up to speed. So then what else can these people do?

There are so many places, staffed by former combat vets, many of whom were special operations soldiers, Rangers, SEALs, and so on.

Many of these companies you have heard of. Blackwater-Xe-Academie, EXO, AKOU, Magpul Dynamics, and tons of other organizations train civilians in squad level tactics, survival, marksmanship, and some also train airborne operations, night infiltration tactics, force on force, and many other aspects of small unit SF type training. This training is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

Hm, I could see that being interesting and good training. I bet it's expensive aye?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

No more expensive than blowing thousands of dollars on guns ammo and gear that the people I refer to buy but don't know how to use effectively.

a reply to: projectvxn

Who who whoa....back up the bus Gus.

The tacticool industry LOOOOOVES these folks. Bread and Butter. Who else is going to buy pistol bayonets?

Honestly, if these dudes want to think of themselves as the schizznik, it's their business. Sure they come off as a little funny but I am not going to lose sleep over it. At least that crowd supports troops for the most part. They are not suffering from academia anemia and talking mad crap over a latte about how stupid service members are for fighting illegal corporate wars, blah blah blah.

I see your point though.

Your rant was very enjoyable. That being said, farmers and goat herders in many third world countries have been kicking the asses of well trained first world military for decades. If you have the right stuff you don't have to be military to survive. 90% mental 10% physical.

a reply to: projectvxn

I'm going to go ahead and agree here

Ex-USAF active and reserve

I was a 2W2 active for MMIII and W78/W87
I joined reserve and seeing as there is no such thing as a "part time" nuke program, I went 3M0 (cook)

Quite frankly I LOVED that job. Mostly because my base was an JTF base with at least one person from ALL 7 UF....It was largely AF, slightly less USA, then a handful of Marines, Naval forces and Coasties and amazingly a couple NOAAOC and USPHSCC

Anyway...as a 'nuke troop,' I was tasked to build, test and maintain the ICBM force. And by test I mean hook up cables to a crappy RSTS that was built somewhere between 100BC and the year 0. We mainly had M870s and training on M16 (back then) and 1911. During my time we had to requalify each year. Requalifying with an M870 isn't too tough at a whopping 15 meters.

But one year, 2007, I scored marksman on the 1911. How I don't know. Good day I suppose. The thing is, I've never even come close to combat. I've been in all manner of bunkers and covers hiding all manner of big booms...but never to combat.

I don't think I'd be capable, even back then when I was fitter and could shoot straight. I do indeed see a lot of people who go to the range with a crappy grouping and thinking "yeah...I am READY." The greatest day ever at our local range was a guy...had to be 23-24? Had a holster (nice one I might add) and a Glock 17C. He was downrange and hitting the target occasionally. But he apparently decided that wasn't enough. So he holstered and decided to practice a quick draw to shoot...I thought someone was going to die.

People have items. Pepper spray. mace, pistol, rifle, stun gun, blah blah but I don't think they get that shooting a target is nowhere close to shooting a moving target (maybe multiple targets) while being fired upon or attacked or surrounded. And should some general SHTF and things go down, I imagine most of those folks would either chicken out, or bravely storm the front and become fodder.

And this isn't an insult I promise. I would likely be just as dead or just as hiding. I have done PT in years. I haven't shot more than a couple times a month in a long time and when I do, I am not like I used to be in 2007. But even then in 2007, we were shooting under very controlled situations and without anything or anyone firing back.

Another one that kills me is Stolen Valor. It makes me SO mad when people pretend to be a soldier/airman/marine/seaman/coastie but it makes me MUCH more irritable when someone who is in has the nerve to wear an elite patch when they are off base to pretend to be something they aren't.

projectvxn - I suggest an AMAZING movie scene to link (at work so I cannot right now) to show your point really well.

Glory - Matthew Broderick, Morgan Freeman and Denzell Washington playing in an incredible Civil War film which shows the beginning and life of the 54th Massachusetts Infantry

Anyway, if you have not seen it, here is the scene that absolutely rings true to your OP.

Major Forbes and a squad are watching Jupiter shoot bottles like a mofo! An absolute professional and a sharpshooter. Colonel Shaw sees this and is quite impressed. He comes down and talks to him and tells him he is a good shot. Then asks him to reload and discharge. Jupiter starts to reload while Shaw is yelling FASTER over and over. Then, phased and anxious, Jupiter fires and misses big time. He tells him to reload and discharge again. This time, Shaw has a Colt next to his head and is firing it while he reloads. He proceeds to panic and drops his muzzle load stick.

Seemingly crass, boorish and just plain rude, Shaw tells Forbes to teach them "properly"

I always thought this movie was great but now this scene means so much more.

Think about it folks. Some of you are great shots and probably good with survival. Have you done it yet with bullets flying over your head? I haven't

a reply to: ABNARTY

lol Pistol bayonet.

Love seeing crap like that.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: truckdriver42

I am a currently serving soldier in the US Army.

I am a member of an Air Assault unit.

What I find most interesting is the folks that take it so personally that they feel the need to lash out at me. That says far more about you than it does about me.

Well if your goal was to embarrass yourself and the Army, mission accomplished. What kind of soldier starts a thread calling out people who he assumes have inferior training than he does? Even if they do, what do you care? I'm sure there are operators who laugh at what you know.

I happen to know a few real "operators". They would never, ever post the sort of silly vitriol you just did. It's beneath them and not worth their time. They exemplify professionalism, humility and dedication. You wouldn't even guess they're in the military if you met them on the street. You should try acting like your better trained and equipped brethren.

Frankly, I think you have a screw loose. You shouldn't be around guns, and I'm starting to doubt that you even serve.

a reply to: Guidance.Is.Internal

Well if your goal was to embarrass yourself and the Army, mission accomplished. What kind of soldier starts a thread calling out people who he assumes have inferior training than he does? Even if they do, what do you care? I'm sure there are operators who laugh at what you know.

Lot of butthurt in your reply.

Its pretty obvious you've elected to miss the entire point of the post. Or, more likely, you read one, maybe two sentences and elected to fly off the handle.

So, hopefully you'll read this entire post:

1. I am not here representing the army or the opinions of everyone in the army. I'm looking at this from my own perspective. Obviously you think this post is about everyone not in the military. That isn't the point and never has been. I have taken the time to further illustrate my view in this thread in various responses to other members. I'm sure you've read them

2.

What kind of soldier starts a thread calling out people who he assumes have inferior training than he does?

This proves you didn't read the OP in its entirety let alone bother to read through the thread.

If you buy all the gear in the world and don't train to be what you WANT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOU ARE, that makes you a liar. Like I have illustrated to great detail in other posts in this thread most people who do this stuff are just misguided fanboys. But many take it to the point where they have invented a persona. Sometimes this persona thinks it can teach classes to the paying public, sometimes this persona can be dangerous, and in a real situation would prove to be a deadly liability.

All your response has proven is how little attention you've paid to what I'm actually saying. Nice work.

I happen to know a few real "operators". They would never, ever post the sort of silly vitriol you just did. It's beneath them and not worth their time. They exemplify professionalism, humility and dedication. You wouldn't even guess they're in the military if you met them on the street. You should try acting like your better trained and equipped brethren.

I'm sure your friends are really cool guys. I know a few too. I am not one of those guys. I am a regular guy in the army who is also a long time member of ATS. I am allowed to post my opinion of the things I see wrong with the world just as you are.

I am all about denying ignorance. I am all about educating myself and others on the realistic side of the academic arguments we engage in when it comes to the topics I'm interested in. This being one of them.

Frankly, I think you have a screw loose. You shouldn't be around guns, and I'm starting to doubt that you even serve.

It's a good thing I don't GAF what you think.

BUT. It would be prudent, in your case, to simply google my user name. I am not hiding. I am not an operator so I don't need to keep my identity secret. Look for my FB page.

Of course you GAF what we think, otherwise you would never start threads like this. There's no butthurt in my reply, just facepalm. Let the wannabee GI Joes be wannabees. There is no absolute gold standard for "warrior", "operator", etc. Some fat guys are incredibly strong, fearsome dudes. Some are lazy, weak sacks of sh*t. I know one obese gentleman, the epitome of a wanna be soldier I suppose, who is an incredibly good shot. Could he do anything hand-to-hand? Doubtful. But, you put the guy behind a scope and he will shoot with the best of them. Can't run an 8 minute mile to save his life. Probably sweats Crisco. Where would he rank in the scheme of things? Depends on who you ask.

So I'm basically saying the premise of this thread is pointless. You've propped up arbitrary definitions of what makes someone fit the description of "soldier", "warrior", whatever .. why should people accept your definitions? Trained soldiers aren't invincible. Pit an operator against a career martial artist in hand-to-hand combat, operator loses. Try the same with pistols, and good-bye Jackie Chan.

It's like the guy who buys a sportscar that can run 200mph, but uses it as a daily driver. Is he a poser? To some, yes. To others, he's just a guy who enjoys the small thrill of driving a hot rod from point A to B. Same applies to the goober at the range. Let him be a goober. Maybe even .. help him out? Perhaps in his eyes, you take yourself too seriously. Or maybe he's just having a good time and doesn't GAF.

Take a good look in the mirror and understand that whatever you categorize yourself as in life, whatever definition you think you fit, there are guys out there like me who would beg to differ. But I'll let the baby have his bottle.

a reply to: Guidance.Is.Internal

There is a basic standard. I didn't make that standard, but if you're going to assume the role, expect people to believe that you can fill that role, even go as far as spend a crap load of money trying to convince people that you are that role, then at least meet the standard.

It is also a matter of a false sense of security. "Preppers" who have no plan, "survivalists" who could not physically endure what they preach to others, "Mall ninjas" who couldn't shoot straight to save their life giving advice on firearms and tactics involving firearms.

Do you not see why that may be a problem?

Instead you lash out at me for pointing these idiots out?

Ok, I think some people have gone a little off on this.

The op was addressing a specific group of people. I think some people associated it as being themselves when it really wasn't.

I've ran into this a lot in info tech circles. I call it the Samurai Syndrome. All these people who want to be Samurai but really all they want to do is a walter mitty-esque visualization and don't want to put in the effort to become what they desire to be considered.

The worst is when they claim to be something that they aren't like seals, rangers, force recon, etc...

If I told people what I was, they wouldn't even know what it was, not unless they were in the community themselves. The only time I have a problem with people spouting off is if they're claiming something that they weren't.

If they want to believe they're badasses because of the gear they have, more power to them. Those of us who know, KNOW whether they claim something or not.

If I'm not having to rely on them to guard my back, I could give two #s.

It has already been stated, most in the community never talk about it. If you aren't close to them, you would never know what they were or are.

It's the same with martial arts, the people who go around boasting about it, typically don't know #.

That's become common with the recent influx of practitioners of BJJ. I laugh to myself when someone comes up claiming they are BJJ practitioners and all you ever hear them doing is talking down about other martial arts.

I do have to question the OPs intention here just a little bit. It just seems a little bit too much like projection to me; however, I can understand where he's coming from too. If you've been there and done that, it can get tiresome listening to fools talk about # they know nothing about.

BTW, Operators like to get a little Call of Duty on XBOX going sometimes too...

Jaden

a reply to: Masterjaden

All the gear I have was issued to me.

I thank god every day I am NOT one of those elite forces guys. I've seen what they do and I don't care to embrace the suck that much.

You can call it projection if you want. But I have never acted like or claimed to be anything other than a dude with a job.

a reply to: projectvxn

You know I understand your point. Guys that think that if they are Tacticool then they are some SF soldier. I have a friend like that. They don't understand it's not the equipment it's the person behind it. This friend of mine has 50 guns, with literally every rail, scope, sight, receiver permutation could want. Goes to the range every week. Still can't hit the side of a barn if he wanted. But he's always working on some kinda funky stance that will change everything instead of honing the basics over and over like he should. tacticool