I had said (not here, in reality to people around me) prior to the war on Iraq, in a class discussion, that if we went after Iraq, that either: a.) Iraq would come out an underdog and kick our tails back home, b.) It wouldn't be a war, it'd be about as hard as drowning puppies, or c.) That it would be a hunt for revenge on Bush's part - and money gains from the oil.

Once the war was within view, I began protesting it - since war should be a person's last resort, not a first, as Bush used it - and knew that sending our troops to Iraq had no real need, and I knew that we would lose the guys for no real reason.

After the war had started, I began saying that if we didn't end up with Sodamn Insane in our hold by the time we were done, I would completely lose faith in America - not America the nation; America the government.

Everybody I talked to about this said I was unAmerican, that we would wipe Saddam off the globe, and that I should be arrested for not supporting America [in everything the government decides to do].

Now, I was right: we haven't caught Saddam (and for all we know, he's still alive); we couldn't catch Osama; and there was no proof of "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. However, I am still seen as unAmerican, simply because I chose to think for myself, rather than go along with what everybody else thought - and ultimately end up wrong.

I love how America is "the land of the free" - you're free to express yourself and give your opinions on America --- as long as it doesn't defame the way the country is being run. You do that, and you might as well work for Saddam.

This is such a "free country", that we can't even think for ourselves (especially if it's not supporting America 100%) or express our opinions. We're so free that the majority chooses to conform their thoughts to be aligned with everybody elses, lest they be "looked down upon". Everyone is so afraid of what others think about them, they they're too afraid to stand up for what they truly believe, or what is right -- or even think differently than the majority.

"Love it or leave it" -- why can't we change it? If your car has a flat tire do you say "drive it or sell it"? You fix it right? The U.S. government's motto goes something like "If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is".

Since it is obvious to me that nobody will ever attempt to change the way Americans in general think, since they're all too afraid of what others think about them - and since I know *I* won't be listened to - as soon as I possibly can, I will perform the latter half of "Love it or leave it"... maybe form my own Empire after I invade Antartica with my army of flying robotic monkey-dogs.

[Moderator(s): Lock this topic if you feel like it, I wasn't really interested in a discussion on the topic, I just decided to write a rant... it's up to you]

I absolutely agree with you. There's too many Bushies and "Proud Americans" running around, not knowing why they're proud of America.

America- The Land of Oppurtunity... and Mirages...

LOBO, I completly disagree with you. But I myself would not call you unAmerican, I was call you a badAmerican, in the sense you did not support the USA. You should support you country wheter it was right or wrong. Stand by it allways. Die by it. Now if you called Bush a terroist and acted like Micheal Morre, Susan Saradon, and Tim Robbins Ii would call you un-American.

Originally posted by JediMaster
You should support you country wheter it was right or wrong.

You are only hurting your country by thinking like that. Hurting as well as destroying integrity.

Supporting your country whether it's right our wrong equates to mindlessness and uncaring to the future well being of your homeland.

You should support you country wheter it was right or wrong.

LOL, that's like being a believer in God and loving Satan at the same time.

I have had nothing good to say about Bush since 2000. I protested Gulf War 2, and made alot of enemies because of it. Though the people that branded me as unamerican or stupid couldn't really explain to me the reason for going to Iraq, they just told me what they were told to say.

I find it all very funny considering the Bush administrations behavior towards the WMD's after the war supposedly ended. Will I still be called unamerican? Sure. Will I care anymore now than I did then? Nope...

'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'

- Gilbert K. Chesterton

Bush is a terrorist.

XAOS

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it" - Malcolm X

Fine I made a hasty comment and what I ment came ot wrong. You should respect your country, and support it. I do not mean like if we started a wave of genocide to support, I mean to respect the country. I did not agree with us going into Somalia, but I supported the country.

Bush is no terroist, I am sounding like a broken record now.

I love this country to death, I will die for it no matter who was presiden or what country we went against. I wear shirts that have US flags on them and that say "God Bless America".

I would give my life away so the USA can live another day.

How you can disagree with an action but then support it.

Jedi, I don't mean to knock you or anything but you say you didnt agree with us going into Somalia but you supported it? I'm assumming that you didn't like going into Somalia because it would include military actions, such as murder. But you say you supported it? What other ways could you support it other than supporting the murdering of dozens...

The Bush Administration is a grouping of the most heinous domestic terrorists this country has ever seen...

Illmatic at least you are making sense here.

My comment came out the wrong way here. What I mean is just stand by you country. I may not agree with your anti-war ideals but, hey I respect your belife and you can have it. What I mena is extreme-anti-war, like having sighns that say "Bush is a terroist, not Saddam" and ones that say "Our Troops are the real terroists". That is what I think is stupid. What I mean is don't say you hate America. I am fine with you saying "Bush Sucks" even though I think you are wrong. If this does'nt help let's forget that even came up .

Thorfinn Skullsplitter, please give me an example of these "terroists" Bush habors.

LOBO, I completly disagree with you. But I myself would not call you unAmerican, I was call you a badAmerican, in the sense you did not support the USA. You should support you country wheter it was right or wrong. Stand by it allways. Die by it. Now if you called Bush a terroist and acted like Micheal Morre, Susan Saradon, and Tim Robbins Ii would call you un-American.

Actually, this is VERY un-American thinking, Predator. VERY UNAMERICAN.

America was founded on organized distrust, rugged individualism, and braving new frontiers, regardless of risk. It was founded on principles of watered down anarchy. The most Un American thing is to like and trust your govornment. We were founded to be self suffiecnt individualists who always distrusted authority, and criticized just about anything any powerful figure does.

I would not lay down my life to keep alive this Anti American society we have created. I would not die for Bush, for Clinton, for any president before them because this is Un American as well.

Americans gave thier lives in prior wars to protect thier homes, or to wipe out what they considered, (although often wrongfully) to be threats to this state of disorganization we live in. They did not die for thier govornments, for thier neighbors, for thier leaders. They died to preserve a froniter ideal.

If youre a true American, you will always question and distrust anything anyone with power over you tries to feed you and rage and rampage whenever they try to enforce something on you.

Umm...Bush, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Poindexter, Negroponte, Wolfowitz...

Originally posted by Illmatic67
I absolutely agree with you. There's too many Bushies and "Proud Americans" running around, not knowing why they're proud of America.

America- The Land of Oppurtunity... and Mirages...

I suppose I should be proud to be from another country? This is OUR country whether we like it or hate it as some seem to. This nation has done some crappy stuff in its time, yet don't you believe it has done more good in the world? I am a proud American.

Those who protest this country do so with freedom, even if their msg is not always heeded-you can vote still! Those who protest this country just to protest and still enjoy all of its freedoms and oppurtunities make me sick.

"Ask not what your country can do for you..."

Actually, this is VERY un-American thinking, Predator. VERY UNAMERICAN.

America was founded on organized distrust, rugged individualism, and braving new frontiers, regardless of risk. It was founded on principles of watered down anarchy. The most Un American thing is to like and trust your govornment. We were founded to be self suffiecnt individualists who always distrusted authority, and criticized just about anything any powerful figure does.

I would not lay down my life to keep alive this Anti American society we have created. I would not die for Bush, for Clinton, for any president before them because this is Un American as well.

Americans gave thier lives in prior wars to protect thier homes, or to wipe out what they considered, (although often wrongfully) to be threats to this state of disorganization we live in. They did not die for thier govornments, for thier neighbors, for thier leaders. They died to preserve a froniter ideal.

If youre a true American, you will always question and distrust anything anyone with power over you tries to feed you and rage and rampage whenever they try to enforce something on you.

Well said Skadi...

You've only been on this board for couple days. We'll see what your thinking process would be like in a couple of months on this board.

So if I saw "I love America" that is anti-American? If I said "I like Bush", that is wrong? But if I say "# the USA' its okay? Is that what you are getting across?

So I guess I will die a "terroist" because I love America. I guess I am a "terroist" because I like and support Bush. I guess I am one lousy mothetf*cker if I would die for America.

And Thorfinn Skullsplitter, your idea of "terroists" is complete bull#. You just hate America thats all. Your ignorant.