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The Real Next Level BS of the Vaccine Controversy.

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+75 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:20 AM
You knew it was coming didn't you?

Now, most of you already know that the people behind NLBS of ATS made a video in which they talk about this controversy. But did they really cover all there is to it?

Well, first of all, Joe and the other NLBS folk try to pin down the vaccine-autism link to one man in particular, Wakefield who published a study in 1998 about such possible link.

Now, let's take a look at another source "wikipedia", and let's see what they also state about the vaccination court and when it was established.

Vaccine court is the popular term which refers to the Office of Special Masters of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, which administers a no-fault system for litigating vaccine injury claims. These claims against vaccine manufacturers cannot normally be filed in state or federal civil courts, but instead must be heard in the Court of Claims, sitting without a jury. The program was established by the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA), passed by the United States Congress in response to a threat to the vaccine supply due to a 1980s scare over the DPT vaccine. Despite the belief of most public health officials that claims of side effects were unfounded, large jury awards had been given to some plaintiffs, most DPT vaccine makers had ceased production, and officials feared the loss of herd immunity.[1]

Wikipedia does state that the Vaccine Court was established in 1986. That's 12 years before Wakefield's study. What Wikipedia and the NLBS folk fail to tell you is that Wakefield is not one of the originators of the link between vaccines, neurological disorders like autism and other health related problems. Neither was Wakefield an originator of the "vaccine autism movement" as it has been dubbed. They don't tell you either that parents and doctors have been reporting adverse effects, including neurological disorders, in children after vaccination for many decades before Wakefield published his study.

So the question is, how is Wakefield "one of the originators of the vaccine-autism controversy" when his study was done decades after many reports were made of adverse effects from vaccines, including neurological disorders such as autism?

We actually have to go back several decades to find when the link was first made.

Let's take a look at an earlier study which found cases in which some children developed acute cerebral symptoms within a period of hours after the administration of pertussis vaccine.

Original Article



- Author Affiliations

The Department of Pediatrics, Harvard Medical School and from the Infants' and Children's Hospitals, Boston, Mass.


Inspection of the records of the Children's Hospital for the past ten years has disclosed 15 instances in which children developed acute cerebral symptoms within a period of hours after the administration of pertussis vaccine. The children varied between 5 and 18 months in age and, in so far as it is possible to judge children of this age range, were developing normally according to histories supplied by their parents. None had had convulsions previously. Many different lots of vaccine, made by eight different manufacturers over a period of eight years, were implicated. The inoculations were given throughout the usual geographic range of children coming to this hospital. All but one, at the time of follow-up or death, showed evidence of impairment of the nervous system, which might still have been in the healing stage in three or four.

During the same period about half as many children were seen in the hospital suffering from the encephalopathy secondary to smallpox vaccination, and about twice as many from the encephalopathy complicating pertussis itself.

A variety of etiologic considerations were suggested by consideration of the reported cases and references to the literature. That constitutional factors may have been involved was suggested by both the preponderance of males as opposed to females, and by the high incidence of abnormalities of the nervous system in the family histories. The clinical course and cytologic abnormalities of spinal fluids found in acute cases indicated an encephalopathy. The literature suggested that this process might have resulted from either the activity of a specific toxin or from an antigen-antibody response. Against the former of these hypotheses was the unstable nature of the heretofore recognized toxins which could hardly survive in properly aged vaccines. The rapid onset of symptoms, occasionally within minutes of the first injection, seemed strong evidence against the second. The present study has left these etiologic considerations unanswered, but it has called attention to a risk of the prophylactic use of pertussis vaccine not hitherto recognized.

In view of the impressive evidence of the effectiveness of prophylactic pertussis vaccine now accumulating, it seems likely that babies are safer vaccinated than not. Further studies should be made to prove this point definitely, for the encephalopathy following pertussis vaccine seems more devastating than the vast majority of the nervous lesions following the use of smallpox vaccine.

Received October 27, 1947.

Copyright © 1948 by the American Academy of Pediatrics

Apologies for having to post the entire abstract, but I did so to avoid any claims of "cherry-picked" data and/or that I left out information.

So the Vaccine Court was in fact established because other researchers, not Wakefield, found a link between the DPT shot and encephalopathy, including autism, not to mention that for many decades before Wakefield's research, parents and doctors have been also reporting adverse effects after vaccination.

As you can see from the abstract above the link between vaccines and autism is far older than the research that Wakefield published. So, why is it that the NLBS folk claim that Wakenfield is one of the main originators of the "anti-vaccine movement"? When parents, and doctors have been reporting adverse symptoms and health problems, including neurological disorders such as autism for decades before he even published his study?

The answer is simple. Wakefield has been made into a scapegoat, an excuse to dismiss the "vaccine controversy", and the NLBS people of ATS fell for it.

edit on 24-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

+29 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:23 AM
Now, before I continue let me make something clear. My argument has always been that people, and parents have choices, and you can ask for vaccines which do not contain the adjuvants and compounds which have been found may cause neurological disorders or other health related problems. More so among people, and children who have a genetic pre-disposition to be more affected by such adjuvants, like AI (aluminum) and compounds like "ethyl-mercury".

In the case of vaccines like the MMR vaccine, and the possible "encephalopathy" it may cause. Remember that the MMR is a live attenuated vaccine, which contains the live attenuated form of the viruses. Children, and adults who are pre-disposed to have a mitochondrial dysfunction can develop autism, or other neurological disorders after receiving the MMR vaccine.

Also remember that Rubella, is one of the confirmed causes of Autism. There are children that shouldn't receive the MMR vaccine, and there are ways to avoid the possible brain inflammation that the MMR vaccine could cause, so it is a good idea to ask your doctor about it. Of, course, always consult with your doctor.

You have to wonder what is so wrong about telling people that they have choices, and they don't have to get their children, or themselves, vaccines that contain these adjuvants and compounds that have been found may cause neurological disorders...

For example, the flu shot. If you are going to get your child, or yourself, a flu shot you can ask for single dose shots which are not supposed to contain ethyl-mercury, or are "supposed" to only contain trace amounts. But the multi-dose flu shots still contain ethyl-mercury.

As to why exactly did I write the multi-dose vaccines "supposedly" have trace amounts of thimerosal? Well, the truth is no one, not even the CDC or the FDA are checking to see if this is true.

In fact in 2004 the Health Advocacy in the Public Interest (hapi) raised funds and sent 4 vaccines to be tested for heavy metals by the Doctor's Data, an independent lab whichspecializes in heavy metal testing.

Here is what they found.

August 12, 2004
Health Advocacy in the Public Interest (HAPI)
Contact: Dawn Winkler 970-641-7413

Vaccines Are Not Mercury Free

After much public controversy surrounding the mercury content of childhood vaccinations, Health Advocacy in the Public Interest (HAPI) raised $500 to have four vaccines tested for heavy metal content.
The vials were sent to Doctor's Data, an independent lab which specializes in heavy metal testing.

Many manufacturers voluntarily began producing supposed "mercury free" vaccines in 1999. Some product inserts currently claim that a "trace" amount of mercury still exists in the final product but that the amount has been greatly reduced. Others claim to be producing completely mercury free products.

During an investigation into the mercury issue, HAPI learned that Thimerosal, a 50% mercury compound, is still being used to produce
most vaccines and that the manufacturers are simply "filtering it out" of the final product. However, according to Boyd Haley, PhD,
Chemistry Department Chair, University of Kentucky, mercury binds to the antigenic protein in the vaccine and cannot be completely, 100%
filtered out.

All four vaccine vials tested contained mercury despite manufacturer claims that two of the vials were completely mercury free. All four vials also contained aluminum, one nine times more than the other three, which tremendously enhances the toxicity of mercury causing neuronal death in the brain.

The mercury content of routine childhood vaccinations has been linked to the current autism epidemic as well as numerous other neurological disorders affecting children today. Currently, one in six children are affected in some way and one in 250 children are diagnosed as autistic compared to one in 10,000 prior to mercury containing vaccines.

Do the 2014-2015 seasonal flu vaccines contain thimerosal?

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved several formulations of the seasonal flu vaccine, including multi-dose vials and single-dose units. (See Table of Approved Influenza Vaccines for the U.S. 2014–2015 Season.) Since seasonal influenza vaccine is produced in large quantities for annual vaccination campaigns, some of the vaccine is produced in multi-dose vials, and contains thimerosal to safeguard against possible contamination of the vial once it is opened.

The single-dose units are made without thimerosal as a preservative because they are intended to be opened and used only once. Additionally, the live-attenuated version of the vaccine (the nasal spray vaccine), is produced in single-dose units and does not contain thimerosal.

According to NLBS, and Wikipedia there is no evidence that proves vaccines can cause neurological disorders, and according to them they are completely safe.

Let's see if that is true.

First, about whether or not the MMR vaccine can cause encephalopathy and this in turn regress into autism.

Abnormal measles-mumps-rubella antibodies and CNS autoimmunity in children with autism.

The Center for Epileptic Encephalopathies (CEE), at NYU Langone, state in their website some specific conditions included as epileptic encephalopathies.

An epileptic encephalopathy frequently involves children but may occur in adults.

There are specific conditions included as epileptic encephalopathies:

Continuous Spike Waves in Sleep (CSWS)
Landau-Kleffner Syndrome (LKS)
Electrical status epilepticus of sleep (ESES)
Autism with regression and EEG abnormalities

edit on 24-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:24 AM

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
So, why is it that the NLBS folk claim that Wakenfield is one of the main originators of the "anti-vaccine movement"?

Because that's what he did. Previous data did not result in a "movement." In the interest of a concise presentation, we started with the person credited (by many more than us, in fact, just about everyone) for starting the anti-vaccine movement.

What's the big deal?

+31 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:28 AM
But, the MMR vaccine is not the only one that has been linked as a possible trigger of autism.

Administration of Thimerosal to Infant Rats Increases Overflow of Glutamate and Aspartate in the Prefrontal Cortex: Protective Role of Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate

Vaccines and Autism

Thimerosal neurotoxicity is associated with glutathione depletion: protection with glutathione precursors.

Administration of Thimerosal to Infant Rats Increases Overflow of Glutamate and Aspartate in the Prefrontal Cortex: Protective Role of Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate

A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.

Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?

How aluminum adjuvants could promote and enhance non-target IgE synthesis in a genetically-vulnerable sub-population.

Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis, NHIS 1997-2002.

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and blood mercury level: a case-control study in Chinese children.

I could keep going, there are literally dozens, and dozens of research papers, and studies done, including biopsies that were done on rats and monkeys which were injected with vaccines containing ethyl-mercury and it was found accumulation of inorganic mercury in their brain tissue despite claims of the contrary that vaccines with certain adjuvants, and compounds are not as safe as they are claimed to be.

For example.

Neurochem Res. 2011 Jun;36(6):927-38. doi: 10.1007/s11064-011-0427-0. Epub 2011 Feb 25.

Integrating experimental (in vitro and in vivo) neurotoxicity studies of low-dose thimerosal relevant to vaccines.

Dórea JG.

Author information


There is a need to interpret neurotoxic studies to help deal with uncertainties surrounding pregnant mothers, newborns and young children who must receive repeated doses of Thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs). This review integrates information derived from emerging experimental studies (in vitro and in vivo) of low-dose Thimerosal (sodium ethyl mercury thiosalicylate). Major databases (PubMed and Web-of-science) were searched for in vitro and in vivo experimental studies that addressed the effects of low-dose Thimerosal (or ethylmercury) on neural tissues and animal behaviour. Information extracted from studies indicates that: (a) activity of low doses of Thimerosal against isolated human and animal brain cells was found in all studies and is consistent with Hg neurotoxicity; (b) the neurotoxic effect of ethylmercury has not been studied with co-occurring adjuvant-Al in TCVs; (c) animal studies have shown that exposure to Thimerosal-Hg can lead to accumulation of inorganic Hg in brain, and that (d) doses relevant to TCV exposure possess the potential to affect human neuro-development. Thimerosal at concentrations relevant for infants' exposure (in vaccines) is toxic to cultured human-brain cells and to laboratory animals. The persisting use of TCV (in developing countries) is counterintuitive to global efforts to lower Hg exposure and to ban Hg in medical products; its continued use in TCV requires evaluation of a sufficiently nontoxic level of ethylmercury compatible with repeated exposure (co-occurring with adjuvant-Al) during early life.

Curr Probl Pediatr Adolesc Health Care. Author manuscript; available in PMC May 17, 2011.

Published in final edited form as:

Curr Probl Pediatr Adolesc Health Care. Sep 2010; 40(8): 186–215.
doi: 10.1016/j.cppeds.2010.07.002
Mercury Exposure and Children’s Health

Stephan Bose-O’Reilly, MD, MPH,a Kathleen M. McCarty, ScD, MPH,b Nadine Steckling, BSc,a and Beate Lettmeier, PhDa

Author information ► Copyright and License information ►

The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at Curr Probl Pediatr Adolesc Health Care


Acute or chronic mercury exposure can cause adverse effects during any period of development. Mercury is a highly toxic element; there is no known safe level of exposure. Ideally, neither children nor adults should have any mercury in their bodies because it provides no physiological benefit. Prenatal and postnatal mercury exposures occur frequently in many different ways. Pediatricians, nurses, and other health care providers should understand the scope of mercury exposures and health problems among children and be prepared to handle mercury exposures in medical practice. Prevention is the key to reducing mercury poisoning. Mercury exists in different chemical forms: elemental (or metallic), inorganic, and organic (methylmercury and ethyl mercury). Mercury exposure can cause acute and chronic intoxication at low levels of exposure. Mercury is neuro-, nephro-, and immunotoxic. The development of the child in utero and early in life is at particular risk. Mercury is ubiquitous and persistent. Mercury is a global pollutant, bio-accumulating, mainly through the aquatic food chain, resulting in a serious health hazard for children. This article provides an extensive review of mercury exposure and children’s health.

edit on 24-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

+26 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:39 AM

Thimerosal and Animal Brains: New Data for Assessing Human Ethylmercury Risk

Julia R. Barrett

Additional article information

Since the 1930s, vaccines have contained thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative that breaks down to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate in the body. By some calculations, children given the usual schedule of vaccines containing thimerosal receive ethylmercury in doses exceeding the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s guidelines for methylmercury, a known neurotoxicant. Because of the lack of pharmacokinetic and toxicity data for ethylmercury, methylmercury has been used as a reference for ethylmercury toxicity based on the assumption that the two compounds share similar toxicokinetic profiles. However, a new animal study shows that methylmercury is an inadequate reference for ethylmercury due to significant differences in tissue distribution, clearance rates, and ratios of organic to inorganic mercury in the brain [EHP 113:1015–1021].

During their first two years, children in the United States may receive more than 20 routine vaccinations. The rise in childhood autism has sparked concerns that thimerosal-derived ethylmercury may be at least partly to blame for some of these cases—concerns that are largely driven by awareness of methylmercury’s neurotoxicity. Beginning in 1999 thimerosal-free versions of routine vaccines for children under age 6 started becoming available. However, as of winter 2005, the flu vaccine still contained thimerosal, and the preservative continues to be used in vaccines in other countries.

In the current study, researchers assigned 41 newborn monkeys to one of three exposure groups. Seventeen of the monkeys were injected with vaccines spiked with thimerosal for a total mercury dose of 20 micrograms per kilogram (μg/kg) at ages 0, 7, 14, and 21 days, mimicking the typical schedule of vaccines for human infants. At the same ages, another 17 monkeys received 20 μg/kg methylmercury by stomach tube to mimic typical methylmercury exposure. A third group of 7 monkeys served as unexposed controls.
Brain concentrations of total mercury were approximately 3–4 times lower in the thimerosal group than in the methylmercury group, and total mercury cleared more rapidly in the thimerosal group (with a half-life of 24.2 days versus 59.5 days). However, the proportion of inorganic mercury in the brain was much higher in the thimerosal group (21–86% of total mercury) compared to the methylmercury group (6–10%). Brain concentrations of inorganic mercury were approximately twice as high in the thimerosal group compared to the methylmercury group. Inorganic mercury remains in the brain much longer than organic mercury, with an estimated half-life of more than a year. It’s not currently known whether inorganic mercury presents any risk to the developing brain.
Given these findings, the researchers caution that risk assessments for thimerosal based on studies using blood mercury measurements may not be valid, depending on the design of the study. Further, the observed differences in distribution and breakdown of mercury compounds between exposed groups indicate that methylmercury is not a suitable model for thimerosal toxicity.

The researchers emphasize, however, that the risks associated with low-level exposures to inorganic mercury in the developing brain are unknown, and they describe other research linking persistent inorganic mercury exposure with increased activation of microglia in the brain, an effect recently reported in children with autism. They recommend further research focused specifically on the biotransformation of thimerosal and its neurotoxic potential.

Arch Toxicol. 1985 Sep;57(4):260-7.

The comparative toxicology of ethyl- and methylmercury.

Magos L, Brown AW, Sparrow S, Bailey E, Snowden RT, Skipp WR.


Neurotoxicity and renotoxicity were compared in rats given by gastric gavage five daily doses of 8.0 mg Hg/kg methyl- or ethylmercuric chloride or 9.6 mg Hg/kg ethylmercuric chloride. Three or 10 days after the last treatment day rats treated with either 8.0 or 9.6 mg Hg/kg ethylmercury had higher total or organic mercury concentrations in blood and lower concentrations in kidneys and brain than methylmercury-treated rats. In each of these tissues the inorganic mercury concentration was higher after ethyl- than after methylmercury. Weight loss relative to the expected body weight and renal damage was higher in ethylmercury-treated rats than in rats given equimolar doses of methylmercury.
These effects became more severe when the dose of ethylmercury was increased by 20%. Thus in renotoxicity the renal concentration of inorganic mercury seems to be more important than the concentration of organic or total mercury.
In methylmercury-treated rats damage and inorganic mercury deposits were restricted to the P2 region of the proximal tubules, while in ethylmercury-treated rats the distribution of mercury and damage was more widespread. There was little difference in the neurotoxicities of methylmercury and ethylmercury when effects on the dorsal root ganglia or coordination disorders were compared. Based on both criteria, an equimolar dose of ethylmercury was less neurotoxic than methylmercury, but a 20% increase in the dose of ethylmercury was enough to raise the sum of coordination disorder scores slightly and ganglion damage significantly above those in methylmercury-treated rats.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

So you tell me members of ATS, what really is the Next Level BSof the vaccine controversy? That there is no evidence that shows certain vaccines are not as safe as is being claimed? You can see from all the evidence I posted above that this is not so. But you have to wonder, why did the people of NLBS make claims which are simply not true? Are they in on the "conspiracy"? Personally, I don't think so, but I think that like many other people the folk of NLBS fell for the lies behind the "safety in all vaccines".

You will see, we will have some members claim that none of the above, or any other study that you present to them is true. They would even point out to a meta-analysis done to millions of children which supposedly debunks the controversy behind the vaccine story.

In fact, here is that meta-analysis and what these other members won't tell you about it.

The researchers of the meta-analysys purpotedly left out all the studies that used the information from the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System... Guess what? the CDC requires parents and doctors to report all adverse reactions of vaccine to this same system that your meta-analysys left out...

+7 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:41 AM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Everything started happening with vaccines when industry started solving shelving problem and making vials last 5 times longer and some of them don't even need refrigeration

How did they solve the shelving problem

Hint hint

By putting other things inside vials, adjuvants mercury and metals

+12 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:42 AM

5/15/2014 @ 1:10PM 14,789 views
Vaccines, Thimerosal, MMR, Mercury Not Associated With Autism
The articles included in their review were any prospective (planned before data collection) or retrospective (planned after data collection) cohort and case-control (pairing study participants with and without a specific variable for comparison) studies. They excluded studies that used the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System as their population because, as the authors note, there is a limitation of:

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

Vaccines are developed with the highest standards of safety. However, as with any medical procedure, vaccination has some risks. Individuals react differently to vaccines, and there is no way to predict how individuals will react to a particular vaccine.

The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) requires health care providers to report adverse events (possible side effects) that occur following vaccination, so the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)External Web Site Icon and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) established the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS)External Web Site Icon in 1990. VAERS is a national passive reporting system that accepts reports from the public on adverse events associated with vaccines licensed in the United States. VAERS data are monitored to–

And the excuse given in specific is one case which was reported on purpose by Jim Laidler who submitted the claim of becoming the hulk...

Whose fault is it that such false reports can make it into VAERS?... Whomever made that system right?... That would be the fault of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) who established VAERS...

This system was set up in this manner so that certain cases, namely those trying to link autism to vaccines, of adverse effects from vaccines can be ignored and dismissed, which you obviously and for some unknown agenda also want to dismiss... Like some others in this thread you want to "throw out the baby with the bathwater"...

We might as well tell the police, firefighters, emergency services, etc, etc to ignore all calls of emergency because there are some that are false...

Then we have the fact, which i am sure you are well aware of, that cases of autism after vaccination which are taken to the vaccine court would dismiss any correlation between vaccines and autism. BUT have accepted and have paid full damages to cases in which a link has been found between autism and vaccines causing encephalopathy (swelling of the brain)...

Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.

But there's a trade-off: occasionally, vaccines cause injury or death. Very rarely, patients are left with what's known as "encephalopathy", the medical term for brain damage.

In fact, CBS News has found nearly 1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

The debate over any links between vaccines and autism - a behavior problem triggered by brain damage - couldn't be more contentious. The great majority of medical opinion holds that vaccines don't cause autism. However, many of the same experts don't dispute that vaccines can, in rare instances, cause brain damage.

Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

Learning From a Previous Vaccine-Autism Case?

Our examination of federal vaccine court decisions over the years reflects this. Children who end up with autistic symptoms or autism have won vaccine injury claims over the years-as long as they highlighted general, widely-accepted brain damage; not autism specifically But when autism or autistic symptoms are alleged as the primary brain damage, the cases are lost.

edit on 24-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct quote

+19 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:04 AM
Thanks. Sorry to say i am not to find of NLBS. But only to be aware of some things i may not have been. I will do my own research. NLBS seems biased. Sorry but i want to choose about a vaccine. I f you get yourself vaccinated. Why the hell should you care about others. You should be protected if it works so well. Same for the BS about Fluoride. Brush you freaking teeth, don't poison me. Who the hell does NLBS work for? Touting this BS and selling junk to people. Because at the end they seem to recommend it. Not just present cherry picked facts or comments.
edit on 24-2-2015 by roth1 because: Added comment.

+11 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:09 AM
a reply to: roth1

Got to say...they do leave a lot out most of the time, just like the msm, they only give you the facts they want you to have so they can stear the narrative one way or the other.

Instead they should data dump it all on us, we are information addicts here, not like there would be too much to read, I read all day in my free time every single day.

If I don't know it, I research it.

Please SO, don't just give us what you guys think is relevant, give us everything.

To some even a small sliver might be what informs their own opinion.

+28 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:24 AM

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

Because that's what he did. Previous data did not result in a "movement." In the interest of a concise presentation, we started with the person credited (by many more than us, in fact, just about everyone) for starting the anti-vaccine movement.

What's the big deal?

SO, the movement is one of parents for the most part, who have been noticing the adverse reactions, including encephalopathy and autism included.

The "movement" has been around since parents and doctors began reporting the adverse reactions they noted on the children, and this has been going on for decades.

The fact is that Joe, and NLBS presented this topic as being a lie, a hoax "from uneducated people who are #ty parents". The tie to Wakefield was made to discredit the real concerns that millions of people have about the adverse reactions, which can be severe, from certain vaccines.

The real question is what is the big deal with those members of the NLBS team who agreed with this presentation when it obviously was lacking in research, and apparently part of the ATS staff as well wanting to belittle people who have serious concerns about the safety of vaccines which are claimed to be safe but evidence says the contrary?

ATS is supposed to be about getting to the heart of the matter, and showing what the msm normally won't show. Instead you get Joe calling parents who have informed themselves as "#ty parents" (he actually called it #ty parenting) when you don't even know the real cause for the meales outbreak. You don't think that the measles virus can mutate? You don't know the real cause for this outbreak, but immediately Joe blamed it on 'the anti-vaxxers"... Heck, even for informing people that they have choices and there are vaccines that don't have such adjuvants, and compounds that can cause these health problems you get labeled as an "anti-vaxxer" in ATS... But you don't think that's a problem?

BTW, I know that members can, and do disagree with this topic and that's fine, but I am referring to this coming from the NLBS team, which are part of the ATS staff.

Is this really what you want to advertise that ATS is about now?

What's so wrong about wanting safer vaccines? Or informing people they have choices?

edit on 24-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment and correct statement.

+14 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:46 AM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The answer is simple. Wakenfield has been made into a scapegoat, an excuse to dismiss the "vaccine controversy", and the NLBS people of ATS fell for it.

Most people don't realise that Dr. Andrew Wakefield (not Wakenfield), way back in the late 90's wasn't actually jumping up and down screaming about an identified link between certain vaccinations and resultant, sometimes immediate neurological disorders materialising in some of the children who received them.

He was actually trying to highlight and get some official attention and research into POSSIBLE was a Dr. who true to his Hippocratic oath which included 'DO NO HARM', who thought it important the medical establishment ought to be made aware of a POSSIBLE link and act on that information in a way that would benefit patients.

They acted on that information all right...only problem was, they acting in a way that was geared up to protecting the pharmaceutical industry and not the patients, and Wakefield became the sacrificial lamb to be slaughtered on the altar of pharma profits and the medical establishment.

Wakefield was doing his job as a Doctor, and lost everything including his professional reputation as a result of it.... although in my view, by speaking out about a possible damaging link to kids resulting from the MMR vaccine...i think he's shown he is more caring and Humanitarian, exactly what his oath as a Doctor demanded of him incidentally, than any of the bastards who crucified him for it.

+10 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:50 AM
a reply to: MysterX

I agree with you. It seems that Wakefield was made a scapegoat, and even to this day what happened to him is used as an excuse to dismiss all the research which demonstrates certain vaccines are not as safe as people are led to believe.

(You are also right about the spelling of his last name. Thanks for pointing that out.)

+12 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:57 AM
Another fact that wasn't presented is that there have been outbreaks of Mumps, and other diseases which have occurred and the mayority of people who contracted these diseases were up to date on their vaccinations.

Case on point.

Mumps Outbreaks in Canada and the United States: Time for New Thinking on Mumps Vaccines

Heikki Peltola1,
Prasad S. Kulkarni2,
Subhash V. Kapre2,
Mikko Paunio3,
Suresh S. Jadhav2, and
Rajeev M. Dhere2

1HUCH Hospital, Hospital for Children and Adolescents, University of Helsinki, Finland
2Serum Institute of India, Pune, India
3World Bank, Washington DC

Reprints or correspondence: Dr. H. Peltola, HUCH Hospital, Hospital for Children and Adolescents, PO Box 281 (11 Stenbãck St.), 00029 HUS Helsinki, Finland (heikki.peltola[at]


Mumps epidemics in Canada and the United States prompted us to review evidence for the effectiveness of 5 different vaccine strains. Early trials with the Jeryl Lynn vaccine strain demonstrated an efficacy of ∼95%, but in epidemic conditions, the effectiveness has been as low as 62%; this is still considerably better than the effectiveness of another safe strain, Rubini (which has an effectiveness of close to 0% in epidemic conditions). The Urabe vaccine strain has an effectiveness of 54%–87% but is prone to cause aseptic meningitis. Little epidemiological information is available for other vaccines. The Leningrad-Zagreb vaccine strain, which is widely used in developing countries and costs a fraction of what vaccines cost in the developed world, seems to have encouraging results; in 1 study, the effectiveness of this vaccine exceeded 95%. Aseptic meningitis has also been reported in association with this vaccine, but the benign nature of the associated meningitis was shown recently in Croatia. Also, the Leningrad-3 strain seems to be effective but causes less-benign meningitis. No mumps vaccine equals the best vaccines in quality, but the virtually complete safety of some strains may not offset their low effectiveness. Epidemiological data are pivotal in mumps, because serological testing is subject to many interpretation problems.
Among 363 male patients in Iowa, 27 (8%) had cases of orchitis, and of 1254 patients involved in the epidemic, 4 (0.3%) developed encephalitis [4]. Several cases of meningitis, deafness, oophoritis, mastitis, and pancreatitis have been diagnosed in patients involved in the outbreaks. Because the manifestations and severity of disease in vaccinees do not much differ from those found in nonvaccinated populations [7, 8], vaccinees with disease have not gained much from vaccination. Among 1798 patients in the United States, only 123 (7%) were unvaccinated, 245 (14%) had received 1 dose of measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, and 884 (49%) were vaccinated twice [3]. In the first outbreak in Canada, 9 (69%) of 13 teenagers had received 2 doses of MMR vaccine [1]. There remains little room for discussion as to whether most cases involve vaccine failure; they do.

The same can happen with Measles, and other diseases. Not to mention the mutations that can incur in these viruses in just one year, not to mention several years.

So the claim that the measles outbreak was because "anti-vaxxers" could be for all intent and purposes false, since other outbreaks have occurred and the mayority of people were vaccinated against that virus yet they got sick.

+5 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 02:17 AM
Then there is also the fact of the controversies behind some of the giant pharma companies committing fraud, releasing false information, and wrongdoing concerning their MMR vaccine.

Lawrence Solomon
Merck Has Some Explaining To Do Over Its MMR Vaccine Claims

Merck, the pharmaceutical giant, is facing a slew of controversies over its Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) vaccine following numerous allegations of wrongdoing from different parties in the medical field, including two former Merck scientists-turned-whistleblowers. A third whistleblower, this one a scientist at the Centers for Disease Control, also promises to bring Merck grief following his confession of misconduct involving the same MMR vaccine.

The controversies will find Merck defending itself and its vaccine in at least two federal court cases after a U.S. District judge earlier this month threw out Merck's attempts at dismissal. Merck now faces federal charges of fraud from the whistleblowers, a vaccine competitor and doctors in New Jersey and New York. Merck could also need to defend itself in Congress: The staff of representative Bill Posey (R-Fla) -- a longstanding critic of the CDC interested in an alleged link between vaccines and autism -- is now reviewing some 1,000 documents that the CDC whistleblower turned over to them.

The first court case, United States v. Merck & Co., stems from claims by two former Merck scientists that Merck "fraudulently misled the government and omitted, concealed, and adulterated material information regarding the efficacy of its mumps vaccine in violation of the FCA [False Claims Act]."

There are other examples of similar fraud, and wrongdoing not only on the part of some big pharma companies, but also from the CDC and FDA as well. For example, the unwillingness of the CDC to revise 36 research studies, which are to this day still used as evidence that there is no link between vaccines and autism by the CDC, in which a scientist was indicted of fraud and escaped authorities with $2 million USD, which he was supposed to use to research the vaccine-autism link but never did.

Central Figure in CDC Vaccine Cover-Up Absconds With $2M
Posted: 05/11/2010 5:12 am EDT

A central figure behind the Center for Disease Control's (CDC) claims disputing the link between vaccines and autism and other neurological disorders has disappeared after officials discovered massive fraud involving the theft of millions in taxpayer dollars. Danish police are investigating Dr. Poul Thorsen, who has vanished along with almost $2 million that he had supposedly spent on research.

Thorsen was a leading member of a Danish research group that wrote several key studies supporting CDC's claims that the MMR vaccine and mercury-laden vaccines were safe for children. Thorsen's 2003 Danish study reported a 20-fold increase in autism in Denmark after that country banned mercury based preservatives in its vaccines. His study concluded that mercury could therefore not be the culprit behind the autism epidemic.

His study has long been criticized as fraudulent since it failed to disclose that the increase was an artifact of new mandates requiring, for the first time, that autism cases be reported on the national registry. This new law and the opening of a clinic dedicated to autism treatment in Copenhagen accounted for the sudden rise in reported cases rather than, as Thorsen seemed to suggest, the removal of mercury from vaccines. Despite this obvious chicanery, CDC has long touted the study as the principal proof that mercury-laced vaccines are safe for infants and young children. Mainstream media, particularly the New York Times, has relied on this study as the basis for its public assurances that it is safe to inject young children with mercury -- a potent neurotoxin -- at concentrations hundreds of times over the U.S. safety limits.


U.S. Congressman Compares Corruption in CDC's Vaccine Safety Studies to SEC's Handling of Bernie Madoff Scandal
Congressman Bill Posey Has Strong Words for Government Agency. Concludes: "I think the CDC Should Be Investigated."

AutismOne April 16, 2014 9:00 AM

WATCHUNG, N.J., April 16, 2014 /PRNewswire-iReach/ -- In an April 8 interview on AutismOne's A Conversation of Hope radio show, Congressman Bill Posey's strong resolve and demands for transparency were evident as he discussed the Center for Disease Control (CDC)'s handling of vaccine safety studies which affect "our most precious resource in our nation – our children." The 30-minute interview, conducted by vaccine industry watchdog, PhD biochemist Brian Hooker, delves into what Posey called "the incestuous relationship between the public health community and the vaccine makers and public officials."

Photo -

The Florida legislator, known as "Mr. Accountabililty," did not mince words when criticizing current and past CDC officials including indicted fraudster Dr. Poul Thorsen; CDC director turned Merck Vaccine President Dr. Julie Gerberding; and the agency's current spokesperson regarding autism and vaccines, Dr. Coleen Boyle.

On Thorsen, Posey said "If you read through the emails and learned about the meetings and the financial arrangement this crook had with the CDC, it will make you absolutely sick to your stomach. This was no casual researcher way down the line. This is the CDC's key man in Denmark. He was closely tied to the CDC's top vaccine safety researchers… as long as Thorsen was cooking the books to produce the results they wanted, they didn't care whether the studies were valid or how much money was being siphoned off the top…It's like the Security and Exchange Commission and Bernie Madoff. But it's worse because we're talking about someone who basically stole money that was supposed to be used to improve the health and safety of our most vulnerable in our society – our young babies."

Dr. Hooker remarked that Thorsen had collaborated with the CDC on 36 papers, not just one paper as claimed by Dr. Boyle, and that the agency refused to investigate studies exonerating vaccines' role in causing autism following his indictment on wire fraud and money laundering. Posey described Boyle as "intentionally evasive," in his questioning of her at a Congressional hearing. "I asked her a very direct question. 'Have you done a study comparing autism rates in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children?...' She started telling us about everything she's done …After she wasted three minutes, I cut her off and I demanded that she answer the question. And then, only then, did she admit that the federal government has never done that very simple, fundamental, basic study."

edit on 24-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.

+3 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 02:38 AM
Good post man.. Interesting info..
Still no comment from NLBS..

Also to add..

edit on 2/24/2015 by ThichHeaded because: (no reason given)

+9 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 02:44 AM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

My hate goes off to you Sir

Glad to see someone has actually done some real research regarding this matter.

I to was very disappointed in the way NLBS approached the subject of vaccines and the links to autism.

As a parent with a son who is now 12 who has autism ( I have many kids btw), I saw when he was 2 years old and a normal toddler, have his vaccination and within a matter off weeks he changed.

I spent years fighting these people them telling me it was not the vaccine. But I know it was, So nobody or no matter off research is going to tell me otherwise. I saw it with my own eyes

I experienced it and now live with it, so all you nah sayers out there who want to believe there is no connection, you need to wake up.

OP, thanks for so great posts



+23 more 
posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:11 AM
This is the greatest thread in ATS's recent history, credit source materiel raining down like hellfire from above.
It's beautiful to see.
wont be long before the sycophant army arrives to defend the palisades! well done sir, well done.

posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:16 AM
I certainly took notice of the stellar research that NLBS did for their fluoride installment, very thorough. Their vaccine defense was just an echo of the same old tired lines of what billion dollar industries would like us to believe.

I use common sense and read. The vaccination inserts alone should tell any one who can read and comprehend that they are not safe or effective.

If vaccines are effective then why would the vaccinated fear the un-vaccinated? Folks have short or maybe absent memories.

We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune.

Who needs protecting from who?

posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 05:22 AM
I had to reply so that I can keep this info you have shared, thank you so much for sharing. I'm sorry but I won't make a comment yet, but may put my 2cents in later.

posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 05:44 AM

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
This is the greatest thread in ATS's recent history, credit source materiel raining down like hellfire from above.
It's beautiful to see.
wont be long before the sycophant army arrives to defend the palisades! well done sir, well done.

Nah, sorry. It just doesn't seem to worth my time. As soon as I read "why would the vaccinated fear the un-vaccinated?" I knew this thread is beyond remedy.

Or we could make it a little bit more interesting: instead of me picking at some flowers like mercury is in a molecular binding just like Natrium (bad stuff) with Chlorine (really bad stuff) equals to salt - you may pick, lets say,

3 sources of your choice.

I will debunk them in easy, simple ways. If I can't (as a medical layman), I will try to find someone who did.

But really, all this effort from the OP - for what? This is kinda boring, really. Always "yes yes yes vaccines cause autism!!!"-yelling. Always "BIG PHARMA IS GONNA GET RICH!!!" - yes, they do. They did before, being BIG pharma, but they didn't do it with vaccines.

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