Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

You could see a pink elephant in the sky if it was a balloon or something. Or it could be a hallucination. But if it showed up on a camera in photo or video or on a radar system then it probably isn't a hallucination.

And I meant the mystery and uncertainty surrounding the subject makes sense considering certain hypothesisy in my opinion, not that people expect to see something so they see it. Not sure I agree with that.

a reply to: JimTSpock

not that people expect to see something so they see it. Not sure I agree with that.

We are wired to do just that without any effort. Our brains are constantly constructing the world and filling in the gaps regardless if ET is flying around or not. That's one thing we have to deal with. Memory and recall is another. Both perceptions and recall of perceptions are influenced by "suggestion". And all that is fueled and enhanced by brain chemistry that distort our perceptions and make us more open to suggestion and imprint our memories. An extreme example is a panic attack. The idea is that if there is an odd ambiguous light seen, I think it would be very easy to get into this feedback loop and brew up a profound UFO experience. The more people you add to the mix, the stronger this effect becomes. "Mass Hysteria" is an extreme example of this where people perceive they have symptoms of illness or even perceive they are being attacked by invisible beings.

im not saying this is "the" answer but it definitely has to be considered and it doesn't hurt to look at these things from this perspective to help understand.

a reply to: Kandinsky

In the light of evolutionary biology, the archetypes and mythic elements might be hard-wired into us at a genetic level. It makes more sense than a speculative outside agency or elusive Intelligence.

What would be the biological advantage of .....a hard wired delusion? Is it as simple as the best story tellers got the girl?

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

What would be the biological advantage of .....a hard wired delusion? Is it as simple as the best story tellers got the girl?

Social cohesion and cultural identity? Our species' success has been defined through group behaviour and storytelling is an excellent way to form bonds and instil shared goals. Morality and disgust are taught within stories and such concepts bring stability and a natural order.

Very early on, social groups would have been identified by shared symbols, gestures and sounds - seminal dialects. Those unable to communicate effectively would have died off. It also presumably increased the chances of reproduction within the gene pool of our immediate peers. Likewise, it could also have increased chances of survival by generating cohesion in the same way people group together and defend their properties, loved ones and nations.

Organised hunting and gathering would be more successful with communication and it’s my view that we were telling stories before we had words. How!? By mime and mimicry.

A reasonable explanation for the universality of archetypes is that they’ve been with us since we were picking up rocks on the plains. Naturally, they will have developed in sophistication. Needless to say, if you look at the archetypes I linked on page 1, most, if not all, are conceivable in the minds of clever apes.

The right words, in the right order have often been enough to mobilise millions. Injecting archetypal hot-buttons through whatever media can alter societies and maybe our 'UFO sightings' are, in themselves, mediums of communication? Speculatively, this could make people like Vallee a messenger/medium...or a 'Typhoid Mary.'

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Don't be lazy Kev, that 30% might hold unfathomable riches for folks like us here. I am always anxious to read that stuff that is just outside the 'mainstream'.

So what kind of information are you seeking? What is your
hearts desire? It tears me up a little that so many want to
be 'rescued' from this world by some crazy narrative.

Kev

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Tangerine

Alright dude, so we can talk about the means by which they control but not the controllers themselves?

Yea from personal frightening experience they are here.. god knows why. They control through dreams and use archetypes and dream symbology to manipulate daily lives. All these mythologists were half right, these #en things use psychology and sleep with arechtypical imagery to maneuver their next step. Their means I understand their ends scare the living # out of me.

Read the Budden book in my signature line and many of your
questions about 'the Other' will be at least quasi-answered.

What most people don't know, because they are not liminal
enough, is that we all have this 'other self' that is angry with
us, because we have 'abandoned it' - when the rational
hemisphere gained ascendancy. It rants and raves and
pulls out all the stops, even tapping EM energy when
it can from earthquake faults, UAP, etc, to try and get
our attention by materializing UFOs and what not..

it used to materialize folk tale and religious stuff more..

Any shamanic/liminal person who does his/her work right
is in contact with this 'cranky crazy self' and all this stuff
is far less of a mystery than people think.

It all started happening after the events of 'the fall' as
detailed in the other book; that is when the 'so-called
breakdown of the bicameral mind' occurred.

Kev

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I have an offer from a major celebrity in this field to
endorse 'my book' if I write it

I sort of "crashed" the MUFON pow wow this past summer. I convinced my wife to drop in as we drove past the hotel where it was being hosted. I was like oooo! there's Linda Moulton Howe! and she was like "who?" Yeah, I wouldn't know one of those Kardashian "major celebrity" girls either from any other stripper I guess.

Looks like you can download The Fall for free? But you have to sign up.

I'm working with two peers of Keel, and one of them helped invent
the Internet, so do the math. But yes, you are right, celebrities
in 'our circle' mean nothing to most people.

Kev

a reply to: Tangerine

You are right, he's not referring to ET's.

Kev

"Non-physical hypothesis" ---- You'll have to figure in TELEPATHY of course...but that's just one small slice of the pie in relation to the UFO enigma.

a reply to: Kandinsky

It's my view that we were telling stories before we had words. How!? By mime and mimicry.

Oh god I can't imagine being a caveman back then as if street mimes aren't bad enough. "Look! I'm trapped in a cave!"


Anyway, those were some pretty good thoughts. I haven't really thought much along those lines. Coming up with those evolutionary strategies is always fun and can be very insightful. Does remind me of when I was college taking psych courses and I had to do a book report for social psych (maybe) and I did mine on the evolution of sexual strategies or something along those lines. I was really into it and I thought I was writing this killer report. Well I got the paper back with red ink all over it and parts circled and a line going to "BULL S##T!". That was a tough one.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

So what kind of information are you seeking? What is your hearts desire? It tears me up a little that so many want to be 'rescued' from this world by some crazy narrative.

Odd post. I'm not seeking anything and it's certainly not anything to do with my heart's desire. What tears you up? Who wants to be 'rescued' by some crazy narrative? I like this world just fine, thanks. Just curious about the 30% of material that you said you were too lazy to present.

Aa a few people have mentioned already, Terence McKenna presents my favourite hypothesis on the UFO phenomenon.

We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extra-terrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us.
-Terrence McKenna

a reply to: wtbengineer

A post may only be odd if you don't understand why it was
written the way it was. Thanks for your response.

Kev

a reply to: LiveForever8

We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extra-terrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us. -Terrence McKenna

What could be more alarming than an extra-terrestrial invasion? I'll take dealing with the symbiotic life form leeching energy and livelihood from us and unknowingly controlling us and shaping the world, over fighting an unknown able to traverse the harshness and destructiveness of space!

I haven't watched the video yet for context. Just reacting to the quote, which has confounded me.

CdT

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: lostgirl

Oh yes, I absolutely do! In fact, I think that my continued existence may be attributed to the help of such entities. It's just that they don't insinuate themselves into your life the way the bad ones do, in fact, you normally don't even know when they are around.

That's very interesting to me, because despite being very 'open minded' in believing that 'paranormal' type things really do happen to people, I've never experienced anything the least bit out of the 'ordinary', and I've wondered why that is, because it has always seemed to me - for some reason - that I would be one of those people who experiences such 'things'...

....so for a while now it has occurred to me (like having a 'feeling' about it) to consider whether there are good 'entities' protecting me from bad ones (though I can't imagine why I would have any particular need for such protection)..

a reply to: lostgirl

I think you should be happy and consider yourself lucky. The things that I've been through haven't been any fun. At least the 'haunting' parts. The UFO I saw was only a curiosity to me, it didn't cause me any distress or anything but the stuff that happened throughout my childhood into early adulthood just about destroyed me. It's been almost 40 years since anything like that has happened but I was forever changed by it.

As far as good entities protecting you, I don't know, could be. I still don't think I'd be alive now if there were only bad ones.

a reply to: wtbengineer

Yes, as I've read more and more of threads like this one, I do consider myself "lucky" not to have had (or be having) experiences with things of 'paranormal' nature...

Have you ever conjectured as to why those "haunting" things happened to you as a child?

Also, did you have any connection to the military? Because in my reading, I've found that most people who experienced 'stuff' as children either had relatives in the service or lived near military bases..

(Sorry, Mr. Tangerine, if that last question is off topic - I felt it needed to be asked, given wtb's history)

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Astyanax

Thanks for the compliment Astyanax, your perspective is one I always pay attention to.

But being a vulgar mechanist myself, I have always been drawn to the idea that myths and the archetypes that form them are a projection of our evolved instincts in action.

Wryly, I aspire to be a 'vulgar mechanist' and find that it's a peak that's narrowly out of reach. I've spent a lot of time studying the evolutionary dynamics of storytelling. Actually, that's inaccurate, I've spent some time studying and a lot of time thinking because it's an area that hasn't been fully explored just yet.

In the light of evolutionary biology, the archetypes and mythic elements might be hard-wired into us at a genetic level. It makes more sense than a speculative outside agency or elusive Intelligence. Certainly folkloric stories of monsters serve the purpose of protecting children from drowning (water monsters) or becoming prey (forest monsters and boundary beasts). Maybe societies expand and parts of them require a 'wolf at the door?' Perhaps social animals will create a source of threat or anxiety when none exists? It's certainly been riffed upon by successful leaders as they play upon that instinct of fear and characterise their opponents as existential threats to *us.*

In spite of feeling secure that science will have all the answers one day, the experience of living has left some liminal features. For example, I've experienced some unusual things over the years that naturally instil an uncertainty. Not to the point of populating my world with a pantheon of magical critters or thinking that the world is run by magic. Not at all. My judgement remains heavily influenced by rational, critical thinking and yet there's also a nagging doubt that something undefined exists at some remove to us.

I'm well aware of the absurdity of this and it's socially embarrassing on an intellectual level. Nevertheless, the idea continues that there is something undiscovered in our reality.

'Mythology rules at a level of our social reality over which normal political and intellectual action has no power.' — Jaques Vallée

Vallee's interest in unusual areas began in the midst of the French UFO wave of 1954. He and his mother reportedly watched an archetypal 'flying saucer' above their local church. Since then, he's become an ambassador for the scientific exploration of whatever constitutes the UFO phenomena. I have one, private question that I would like to ask him.

Many people who've seen such unidentified objects find their perspective on the world shifts out of synch with the rest of society - it's inherently liminal again. It introduces a state of mind that's anticipatory in the sense of a question that will never have an answer. Induced uncertainty? Currently, 'seeing a UFO' is amongst the symptom list for diagnosing a constellation of mental illnesses. Whilst there's no doubting the validity of that inclusion, it rather renders constructive discussion moot in such cases that include more than one witness or single witnesses with no history of psychological disorders.

I'll leave it there before I outstay my welcome. All the best

You have raised some interesting topics. Insofar as we know, the structure of story has remained unchanged for as long as stories have been recorded. The structure may well be encoded in our DNA and we, as a species, seem to have a need to tell and hear and experience stories. Certainly, they help us learn but beyond learning about basic things like what to fear, what are we learning that is so vital to our existence that we must experience this same story structure many thousands of times over a lifetime? Where do UFOs fit into this story experience? Do they alter the structure of story? It seems that the way we present stories about UFOs isn't structurally different from other stories but then we fail to absorb and communicate something intrinsic to the experience. Perhaps UFO encounters are anti-structural in nature and intended to alter our built-in storytelling "mechanism". IF so, this would, in a profound way, alter that which it means to be human.

a reply to: Kandinsky

You're welcome...

In the light of evolutionary biology, the archetypes and mythic elements might be hard-wired into us at a genetic level.

To speculate, what Jung called archetypes may be indistinct projections into consciousness from complexes of unconsciously motivated behaviour. The lability of archetypes is almost their defining feature; their many faces could represent contexts or ways in which the behaviour manifests itself, or foreshadow its possible consequences. I don't think the archetypes, themselves, are hard-wired; I think they're the reflection of the instincts, which are.

But we must relate this to nonphysical (and increasingly, I fear, as the thread progresses, paraphysical) UFOs. If (shall we call them Neufos?) are the product of some instinct operating deep within us, the great questions are

1. What complexes of behaviour, what instincts, are responsible for their manifestation?
   
   
2. Why do they present themselves in this particular apparitional/narrative context?

I've seen various people, particularly the OP, taking a glancing stab at these questions, but perhaps it makes it easier when they are explicitly asked.

*

Many people who've seen such unidentified objects find their perspective on the world shifts out of synch with the rest of society.

Perhaps, when the person sees the UFO, his reality has already shifted. Needn't have anything to do with 'mental illness'.

*

I'm well aware of the absurdity of this and it's socially embarrassing on an intellectual level.

I see no need to be embarrassed. Most people would be in sympathy with you. Besides, there are limits to empiricism as there are to all methods devised for getting to know reality. Consider: the world we perceive is constructed by our brains from sensory data. It is nothing like the picture of the world our scientific knowledge presents to us: we do not see objects as mostly empty space, and time has a visceral, inexorable reality for us that modern physics calls repeatedly into question.

What are sensory data? They're what things give off; they're not the thing in itself (yo, Immanuel!) The thing-in-itself is beyond our knowledge, because we can never experience it directly; we can only experience a projection of it. Does that sound familiar? Archetypes are part of our evolved toolkit for interpreting reality: sophisticated stuff to back up the frontline equipment of reflexes, habits, etc.

Also, consider: beyond the four-dimensional universe we inhabit there may well be others, which interpenetrate ours without our knowing of it, or running in parallel with ours, also unbeknownst to us. Time itself may be nothing but an illusion suffered by unhappy mortals. If we keep looking for ever-more-fundamental particles, we will eventually, inevitably, find ourselves looking at a particle made of nothing. We're almost there with string theory and its competitors, like quantum loop gravity, which tell us that matter is distortions or perturbations in spacetime. That's not quite nothing, because spacetime has properties, but it's getting kind of close.

Lots of wiggle room in there. Roger's Version isn't the only one.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Kandinsky

In the light of evolutionary biology, the archetypes and mythic elements might be hard-wired into us at a genetic level. It makes more sense than a speculative outside agency or elusive Intelligence.

What would be the biological advantage of .....a hard wired delusion? Is it as simple as the best story tellers got the girl?

That's a very good question. Storytelling may be THE thing that makes us human. If we assume that some of these stories are coming to us from "out there" rather than entirely self-generated, it may be the mechanism by which we are controlled. As humans, we spend much of our time experiencing stories and telling stories. That's what we're doing right here. That's what we do when we read or watch TV or films or gossip. We struggle to present archetypal experiences such as UFO encounters in story structure. Perhaps by doing so, we program or re-program ourselves. Perhaps we re-set ourselves.