First time reading the Quran, My impression

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

a reply to: celticdog

And yet you missed the CONSTANT usage of the word WE by what is supposed to be a Singular God, an all-knowing BEING.

How can people read this and completely miss the fact that this God refers to his group (of Gods) and not just himself.

I've said this to others, so I'll say it here.

Within Islam, there is Only room for Islam.

It is the CORE of the religion, submit to Islam, or be destroyed, even the "peaceful" Islamists act toward this end, whether they know it or not.
Peaceful Islam is a Takiyya.
There are ways to destroy other cultures without physically murdering people, they can breed them out, they can buy them out, they can subjugate them under harsh laws and restrictions and taxes (Jizya)
it all serves the same purpose and works towards the same goal of placing "all within Islam and within Islam, ALL"

In Islam, there is no room for anything but Islam.

If they accomplish this end, they will turn on each other until nothing is left.

a reply to: LightAssassin

We, is in reference to the Angels who share the message of Allah.


Nothing more, nothing less.


One God, many Angels!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
It is a hateful book not about the after life but the here and now. You seem to be missing the point nobody knows about the afterlife the hate is now and in the Quran. So if I read Do not take Jews and Christians as friends.. ch5:52. Even if we could be friends we can't therefore it hurts you and me. Just substitute Jew or Christian for Black or Chinese. This shows that your religion is intolerant. So are you going to give up your Christian friends since you are newly converted.

I don't know how you can dismiss verses that are specifically hateful unless you are totally blind to it.Either you believe in the Quran or not there is no middle ground. I clicked through some of the other chapters, the verses were basically the same, it even repeated as well. I learned pretty much all about Islam/Quran in 4 to 5 chapters.....If you compare Taoism which I am just looking into to Islam, the tone is way different.

Tao .... Following the flock leads only to the illusion of contentment...One's mouth must never spout evil, malicious and hurtful speech

Cheers

a reply to: celticdog

We can be friends with Christians and Jews...


That "infamous" verse of "intolerance" is in reference to Christians and Jews who were deceivers, or backstabbers, at that specific time in history.

Not all Jews & Christians, just the ones who were being deceptive, despite a Treaty between them and the Muslims.


Context is important.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: r0xor

To my knowledge there isn't a single instruction in the New Testament to commit any acts of violence or mistreatment on anyone, especially because of their faith, lack there-of, or any other mitigating factor.

Luke 12:45-48 ESV

45 But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. 48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

^Murder, violence, and slavery condoned. That qualifies as mistreatment to me. Notice too the slaves that were not even aware they did wrong still got a beating.

That is not for the now but after judgment has been decreed. For God through his Christ will judge all in the end. But that does not say, for a person in this life to murder, or do violence, and do slavery. As it is a parable of understanding for that time period on the judgment that will one day take place. Notice Jesus did not murder, use violence with physical contact on a person, nor have a slave. Notice Jesus didn't do any of that before his death, as his mission was to teach in love, mercy, sacrifice and change towards that and that alone. The worst you could say is he made a whip and ran people off and knocked down property and freed the animals in the temple. But he knew that was his house his Fathers House. Now after his rise from death, it will be a different mission on that great and terrible day. The consequences will be after you die and then are judged or on his return and then judged.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
The Qur'an is all in bullet points. The is no context because there is no statement that proceeds or follows that verse that gives it meaning. If you just handed the book to me and I read that I would take it at face value. If there were no access to history for so called context then that verse stands as is. If it can't stand by itself it is useless.
If you are going to say back then it was different then the all knowing Allah is not all that knowing and should have made it clearer or maybe it was just the ramblings of a man who was a narcissist trying to pass himself off as a prophet.
This is my first read of the Qur'an and the book should stand by itself and my first impression of it isn't good so I don't think it is all that holy. I should be wow this it, such great insight but no not even a glimmer.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

OK, I can see that for now. Although, thankfully, it is the angels who admit, in the Koran, that they are responsible for the terraforming of the planet. And that God is the Lord of the Worlds....plural....and that he preferred the Children of Israel over the [other] Worlds.

It is an interesting read still, and it resonates a lot with the guys at The Chronicle Project who are using their own discovered Hebrew language to translate the original hebrew bible.

The other thing I find interesting is the claims in the Koran that the Hebrew bible was tampered with, and that those who hide the truth will be absolved of their sins if they come out and admit to what they have falsified.

a reply to: LightAssassin

It's obvious to anyone that studies scripture that the use of the plural form 'we' was to indicate Majesty; just like Kings or Queens would say 'We declare you unfit for ...'

See here:


askville.amazon.com...

It seems fitting that God would use such terminology which was clearly understood by the people of those times, and still even today (except in your case) to signify dominion over mankind.

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: Borisbanger
Mohammed called himself the last prophet. Yea pray and keep paying the zakat(Tax). He threw in all the old testament prophets and made them part of the Quran.

Do you even know what the Zakat (tax) is? Or its purpose? You make it sound like a scam.

I am asking as I wish to know whether you were just skimming through the Quran, or actually trying to understand what you were reading.

Woah, hold the press, a non-believer read the Quran and isnt too impressed? Lets see why..

I decided to read the Quran because of all this Islamic stuff going on. For the last couple of weeks or so I have been looking into Islam mainly just Youtube videos and yes mostly they were negative. A couple of days ago a read a brief history of Mohammed so yesterday I decided to read the Quran. I wanted to see if there was something to this book. I read an online version here www.alislam.org...

Awesome, did you get the tafseer ibn kaseer pdf/book to help you understand the verses? Seeing that Quran is written in a richer language and that even Arab speakers (due to phenomenon of language degradation) fail to fully grasp the Quran, having this source of immense information and widely accepted interpretation of the Quran gives you the perspective on the verses that is clear and unbiased.

I only read to chapter 5:11 As for those who disbelieve and reject our signs, they are the people of hell.

Oh damn.. your first paragraph led me to believe you were open minded, but you just made a very leading statement without providing any context. You know what, lets look at the verses in question..

quran.com...

Sura Al-Maidah (The Table Spread) (5:11)

O you who have believed, remember the favor of Allah upon you when a people determined to extend their hands [in aggression] against you, but He withheld their hands from you; and fear Allah . And upon Allah let the believers rely.

Oh man, epic fail, you wont on the mark. Far from it. You couldnt even quote the book you apparently read. I am starting to doubt your reading skills at this point.

My first impression was a monotony of lists after lists of do's and don'ts.

Yes, thats kinda standard, the God of Abraham (pbuh), Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh) did that.. seeing that its the same God of Muhammad (pbuh), it kinda makes sense.

Second it repeated quite a few things over and over like frequent prayers and pay the zakat

Yes, this is good for us, those of faith (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc) all believe that praying and charity is the way to God mercy, to paradise. So what's your issue that its in the Quran? Basically why hate, let alone with a mute point?

The third which is really glaring to me how Allah is all knowing, seeing and merciful but only to his followers but to unbelievers they go straight to hell or burn in fire which is mentioned and repeated multiple times. Even some verses are repeated almost word for word and I am only on chapter 5.

It mentioned that Jews and Christians go to hell.

No, Allah is all knowing, all seeing, and merciful regardless of His creation. The creation need to do certain things to obtain more of his mercy. That applies to Muslims too, case in point, above I mentioned how Muslims believe that more praying and charity, etc will get us in to paradise. However you might think that the entry level is to be a Muslim, thats not entirely true, as in this world, everyone has mercy from Allah. Even you, for example you have people that love you, that is a mercy from Allah. To get more mercy you might have to be a Muslim, yeah, however there is an incident in which Allah during the time of Moses (pbuh) delayed the punishment of a non-believer because he gave a lot in charity.

Also not to have unbelievers as friends.

Where did you get that from?

My fourth impression is that what I have read so far is not very spiritual at all. I only see negativity and I have gotten nothing good from it and if I converted which by the sounds of it they do want that, it is convert or go to hell, it is the repetitive praying and dare I say hatred for the nonbeliever would get me down. I think I would blow myself up too.

I work with computers, theres a simple rule that does us well.. garbage in garbage out.. You clearly went to the Quran with a lot of hate and biases.. so thats what you got out of it..

I am not going to read anymore. I am done with the Quran.

Like I said, I'm seriously questioning your ability to read and I mean you couldnt even quote the Quran properly, how can you read it? I dont know what is more sad, your inability to set aside your hate and agenda when reading a book or your stupid attempt at trying to defame a holy book of 1.8 billion people..

a reply to: celticdog

Perhaps you should be far more interested in US foreign policy in Middle East than Quran

For example how Syrian Rebels became ISIS with US help

Or how US helps Israel grow borders over living bodies

Just a small start for ya

a reply to: MstWntd

Welcome MstWntd

Good to have your input.

So glad you read that evil and vile book. You are but a few gentleman scholars who would bother.

I read the whole book during Desert Storm, and the evil gets worse from where you left off. S&F and I wish I could do more for you excellent efforts to really understand that horrid religion.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Wrong, it is as Charlie said....it is the Angels delivering the message to Muhammed, when they speak of we. I suspect it is the same Angels who spoke the words 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness', yes, we were not created by God but by his understudies.

originally posted by: LightAssassin
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

It is as Charlie said....it is the Angels delivering the message to Muhammed, when they speak of we...

No, not wrong.

As Charlie said...? What is the verse in question? Quote me an example with some context...

Firstly - It is common for some people to misunderstand the 'We' in scripture.

Secondly - it was only ONE angel that revealed the message to Muhammed. If you can give me the name of that angel you might get a cookie.

I suspect it is the same Angels who spoke the words 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness', yes, we were not created by God but by his understudies.

What the hell? How did you reach this conclusion?

a reply to: LightAssassin

Do you even bother to research things?

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

You sir have no reason whatsoever slandering a book in which almost every chapter starts with "In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful" as evil.. There are numerous accounts of heaven, hell, love, hate, peace and war in this book and for you to only focus on hell, hate, and war speaks volumes about your character, intellect, agenda, beliefs and the lack thereof.

Today's terrorist are a nasty piece of work, but you no better, for you and them live and breathe in the same hate.