First time reading the Quran, My impression

a reply to: FalcoFan

You should have burned the kiss albums!

originally posted by: celticdog
even Georges Bush's daughter converted to Islam.

I never head that so I just googled it. The stories are 'George Bush's daughter, Laura, converted to Islam'. The problem with that is that Laura is his WIFE, not his daughter. And Laura is still Methodist.

a reply to: LittleByLittle
As I said I only just got to chapter 5 but it has already said the nonbelievers get the most grievous punishment. I guess he gets beaten within an inch of his life.

a reply to: FlyersFan
Oops ...ok Lauren Booth sister inlaw to Tony Blair

a reply to: celticdog

What does it matter if the unbelievers burn in hell?

They don't believe it!!!



Maybe their disbelief in what is said is not as solidified as they make out!

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: LittleByLittle
As I said I only just got to chapter 5 but it has already said the nonbelievers get the most grievous punishment. I guess he gets beaten within an inch of his life.

Since Muhammad creates laws for others that he is allowed to break himself, I think of his as a hypocrite that does whatever he wants and changes the rules as situation appear. For instance a Muslim can only have 4 wives but Muhammad seem to have had 19 wives and concubines+14 more engagements and broken Contracts.

wikiislam.net...

Being the "Prophet" seem to be a good way to bend "gods rules" with new information coming to you, to make you able to do what you want even when it is morally questionable.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: celticdog



What does it matter if the unbelievers burn in hell?



They don't believe it!!!







Maybe their disbelief in what is said is not as solidified as they make out!

love and mercy
it matters much if one single person is taken by evil.
our goal should be a continued effort to try to save them but i think that is a big difference in our views.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Christians do believe hell. It is not disbelief in hell but disbelief in Allah he is talking about so therefore he surfers in hell as per Allah, Mohamed for not believing the almighty all merciful.

a reply to: celticdog

Right.

But they don't believe in Allah...


So what's the problem?

My point is, the Kafirs do not think it's going to happen anyway, so I don't see the big deal!




I'd like to know which verse you're referring to which says Christians and Jews will burn in Hell anyways!

I must have missed that one...

a reply to: LittleByLittle
There is no way to dispute his claim to being a prophet. Didn't he put to death anyone who criticised him. There is fine line between prophet and mad man. Ezekiel laid on his side for 390 days. I know crazy right.

a reply to: celticdog

While I agree with much of what you said, I could easily show those same theological stances towards non-believers via the Christian Bible. They both have verses condoning extreme violence towards non-believers, and verses suggestive of them being sent to Hell. They have this in common. So if you're attempting to elevate The Bible above the Quran I feel that is more or less a silly thing to do... at least based on the few ideas you surfaced.

That said, I continue to read here and there for the Quran where it's relevant to arguments and discussions.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
I think is in chapter 3 were it specifically says Jews and Christians go to hell. I can't remember what verse.

a reply to: celticdog

Do you know why it keeps repeating things over and over?

It's how people become 'Mind Controlled' and 'Brainwashed', it's the exact same tactic!

Keep repeating things and you soon become 'Hypnotized' by it if you can't control it.

a reply to: celticdog

No he didn't.

He wouldn't think twice to kill someone who tried to silence him from preaching though.


See if you'd read further you would have seen the Verse in my signature...
Break down;
Allah could make everyone believe if He wanted...
He didn't, He chose for them to have free will...
He asked Muhammad to spread this message...
But not to force it...
Because...
Allah could make everyone believe if He wanted...

And around it goes...



Wasn't much freedom of speech back then when there was Hundreds of "Gods" ready to rain down destruction on the monotheistic...


A lot of "we will kill you for disobeying the 'Gods' "...

So, in times of persecution just for advocating one true God...
The sensible, & condonable thing to do is fight back...
Either until the enemy ceases the fight... Or they are dead!

a reply to: r0xor

To my knowledge there isn't a single instruction in the New Testament to commit any acts of violence or mistreatment on anyone, especially because of their faith, lack there-of, or any other mitigating factor.

Luke 12:45-48 ESV

45 But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. 48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

^Murder, violence, and slavery condoned. That qualifies as mistreatment to me. Notice too the slaves that were not even aware they did wrong still got a beating.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
No he didn't.
He wouldn't think twice to kill someone who tried to silence him from preaching though.

Satirical poets of that time frame would disagree with you.
They were the 'I am Charlie' of their day.

Most famous murdered by Muhammad - poetess Asma bint Marwan Other satirical poets murdered by Muhammad- Al-Nadr bin al-Harith, Uqba bin Abu Muayt, Abu Afak, Kab bin al-Ashraf, Ibn Sunayna

Humans invented God,by any name and there are many throughout our known history.
Imagine that for a moment.
God is an invention of the human mind.

a reply to: celticdog

Yes, there are no analogies, metaphors or allusions. The language is plain so as not to be misunderstood.

It is a field manual, nothing more.

Think of this when someone refers to peace and love in the context of that document.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You should have a little look at why they were killed instead of their respective professions.

Marwan was inciting violence against Muhammad & other Muslims...

Mu'Ayt had previously been verbally abusive to Muhammad and spat in his face...
He also celebrated the death of Muhammad's son...

The others were also reasonably more than just freedom of expression jobs.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

How do those openended calls for killing relate to modern muslims and how does that compare to the message Jesus gave of not to kill but to love?

I can easily see the ned back then for such but today do you feel thet reformation is needed in order to stop groups like isis and boko haram because the verses are still in effect?

The argument of interputation of those verses does not hold water because they are open ended and are relevent to today.