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First time reading the Quran, My impression

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posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 05:21 AM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*





Now lets look at what Paul said in 'context' leaving out the other information shows you did not understand Paul.

Ephesians 6:9
And ye, masters, do the "same things" unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master(God) also in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Paul tells the master to do the 'same things' as he told the servant to do both in love, fear, and respect, in the way Christ loved. This way it is the same relationship that they both have with one another in perfect love. This way both the master and servant are equals. If there both equals then there is no real master or slave if there both told to do exactly the same thing. Understand? For we have God alone and his Lord. This was more for servants because Paul also spoke bad about the slave traders.

For Jewish laws allotted to set them free after a passage of time or debt payment. But it was taught that they are both equals as Paul took and surpassed the OT. As it was against this type of slavery.

1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for 'menstealers'(slave traders), for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

It was even taken further with.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither "bond nor free", there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Now with that stated Christ himself did not speak on slavery itself but Christ himself had no slaves and taught as he came to serve(like a servant) and yet he was the 'master'. For none of us are greater then him yet he served us like we were greater then him. For he stated treat others as you would like to be treated. For all the laws are done in two. Love God and and treat others like you would like to be, for this fulfills all laws and the prophets.




posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 08:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 12:10 PM
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....
edit on 20-2-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 12:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?


It seems you are repeatedly ignoring his point. The bible demonstrates at least a passive acceptance of slavery. Is the bible wrong for having this attitude, or do you too accept slavery?



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 01:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?


It seems you are repeatedly ignoring his point. The bible demonstrates at least a passive acceptance of slavery. Is the bible wrong for having this attitude, or do you too accept slavery?

Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?
Who is ignoring what here?

Anyway, my first reply to him addressed the fact that he used a very poor example... as it was a parable. Pretty simple.

PS: The thread is about the Koran anyway. I had a post removed as 'off topic' a few days ago when I addressed the topic precisely in my very first sentence in the post.
edit on b000000282015-02-20T13:57:58-06:0001America/ChicagoFri, 20 Feb 2015 13:57:58 -0600100000015 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

edit on bu282015-02-20T14:00:51-06:0002America/ChicagoFri, 20 Feb 2015 14:00:51 -06002u15 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71


Being an atheist is straining at the leash.

You are still trying to make a determination about the Universe and where you fit with that noggin on that neck. No system can fully understand itself. Saying that you know there is no god equates you with that omniscient 'being' with all your inbuilt limitations.

If god wanted you to know for sure he existed, he would make it unmistakably clear. If she wanted to hide it, how would you know?

Be agnostic. It's one less noose as you explore the real.



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?


It seems you are repeatedly ignoring his point. The bible demonstrates at least a passive acceptance of slavery. Is the bible wrong for having this attitude, or do you too accept slavery?


As a Christian I don't accept slavery. But I do accept the understanding of servants in regards with equality that was spoken for by Paul. For that was for the Jews who had servants by the mosaic laws and for the Greeks that had servants. For if Paul taught the Masters to do the same like a Servant. Then that itself took away the acceptance of slavery/servants, since the master also becomes a servant or slave. Both being equals. As Paul even spoke badly toward the slave traders and that there is 'no' male nor female, jew or greek, bond or free as all are same people under Christ. It null and voids slavery.

As a Christian I follow the ways of Christ as he had no servants or slaves nor did Paul. So no the bible does not give the attitude of accepting slavery. It does the opposite in fact.



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: Created

Well said!



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: Created

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?


It seems you are repeatedly ignoring his point. The bible demonstrates at least a passive acceptance of slavery. Is the bible wrong for having this attitude, or do you too accept slavery?


As a Christian I don't accept slavery. But I do accept the understanding of servants in regards with equality that was spoken for by Paul. For that was for the Jews who had servants by the mosaic laws and for the Greeks that had servants. For if Paul taught the Masters to do the same like a Servant. Then that itself took away the acceptance of slavery/servants, since the master also becomes a servant or slave. Both being equals. As Paul even spoke badly toward the slave traders and that there is 'no' male nor female, jew or greek, bond or free as all are same people under Christ. It null and voids slavery.

As a Christian I follow the ways of Christ as he had no servants or slaves nor did Paul. So no the bible does not give the attitude of accepting slavery. It does the opposite in fact.


Saying that a slave-owner is 'a slave to God' does not make him equivalent to an actual slave...being a 'slave' to an invisible being you believe in who can't actually do anything to you is not the same as being an actual slave to an actual person. So if an American slave owner was a Christian who said he was 'a slave to god,' then the actual slave was in the same position as the slave owner? Sorry, no.



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 08:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: Created

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?


It seems you are repeatedly ignoring his point. The bible demonstrates at least a passive acceptance of slavery. Is the bible wrong for having this attitude, or do you too accept slavery?


As a Christian I don't accept slavery. But I do accept the understanding of servants in regards with equality that was spoken for by Paul. For that was for the Jews who had servants by the mosaic laws and for the Greeks that had servants. For if Paul taught the Masters to do the same like a Servant. Then that itself took away the acceptance of slavery/servants, since the master also becomes a servant or slave. Both being equals. As Paul even spoke badly toward the slave traders and that there is 'no' male nor female, jew or greek, bond or free as all are same people under Christ. It null and voids slavery.

As a Christian I follow the ways of Christ as he had no servants or slaves nor did Paul. So no the bible does not give the attitude of accepting slavery. It does the opposite in fact.


Saying that a slave-owner is 'a slave to God' does not make him equivalent to an actual slave...being a 'slave' to an invisible being you believe in who can't actually do anything to you is not the same as being an actual slave to an actual person. So if an American slave owner was a Christian who said he was 'a slave to god,' then the actual slave was in the same position as the slave owner? Sorry, no.


Ephesians 6:9
And ye, masters(owner), do the "same things" unto them(slave), forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master(God) also in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.


No it was stated that the owners do the same things, that was told for the servants to do. Sorry, yes.

The positions being there are irrelevant if neither is truly master nor servant because they have been made equals. In short if you want to prove it is acceptable show me Christ having slaves. No one can do this task.
edit on 20-2-2015 by Created because: Added last three sentences.



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 08:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: Created

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: Created

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?


It seems you are repeatedly ignoring his point. The bible demonstrates at least a passive acceptance of slavery. Is the bible wrong for having this attitude, or do you too accept slavery?


As a Christian I don't accept slavery. But I do accept the understanding of servants in regards with equality that was spoken for by Paul. For that was for the Jews who had servants by the mosaic laws and for the Greeks that had servants. For if Paul taught the Masters to do the same like a Servant. Then that itself took away the acceptance of slavery/servants, since the master also becomes a servant or slave. Both being equals. As Paul even spoke badly toward the slave traders and that there is 'no' male nor female, jew or greek, bond or free as all are same people under Christ. It null and voids slavery.

As a Christian I follow the ways of Christ as he had no servants or slaves nor did Paul. So no the bible does not give the attitude of accepting slavery. It does the opposite in fact.


Saying that a slave-owner is 'a slave to God' does not make him equivalent to an actual slave...being a 'slave' to an invisible being you believe in who can't actually do anything to you is not the same as being an actual slave to an actual person. So if an American slave owner was a Christian who said he was 'a slave to god,' then the actual slave was in the same position as the slave owner? Sorry, no.


Ephesians 6:9
And ye, masters(owner), do the "same things" unto them(slave), forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master(God) also in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.


No it was stated that the owners do the same things, that was told for the servants to do. Sorry, yes.


So you think saying you're a slave to an invisible being who may not even exist is the same thing as being an actual slave? How offensive to people who have actually had to suffer through slavery.
edit on 20-2-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2015 @ 09:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: Created

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: Created

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*


Wasn't that what Jesus would have done? Answering a question with a question?

Honestly, I wasn't asking you if you could come up with quotes from the Bible that show that slavery existed when it was written. I just wondered if you knew that the one that you quoted was a parable.

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?


It seems you are repeatedly ignoring his point. The bible demonstrates at least a passive acceptance of slavery. Is the bible wrong for having this attitude, or do you too accept slavery?


As a Christian I don't accept slavery. But I do accept the understanding of servants in regards with equality that was spoken for by Paul. For that was for the Jews who had servants by the mosaic laws and for the Greeks that had servants. For if Paul taught the Masters to do the same like a Servant. Then that itself took away the acceptance of slavery/servants, since the master also becomes a servant or slave. Both being equals. As Paul even spoke badly toward the slave traders and that there is 'no' male nor female, jew or greek, bond or free as all are same people under Christ. It null and voids slavery.

As a Christian I follow the ways of Christ as he had no servants or slaves nor did Paul. So no the bible does not give the attitude of accepting slavery. It does the opposite in fact.


Saying that a slave-owner is 'a slave to God' does not make him equivalent to an actual slave...being a 'slave' to an invisible being you believe in who can't actually do anything to you is not the same as being an actual slave to an actual person. So if an American slave owner was a Christian who said he was 'a slave to god,' then the actual slave was in the same position as the slave owner? Sorry, no.


Ephesians 6:9
And ye, masters(owner), do the "same things" unto them(slave), forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master(God) also in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.


No it was stated that the owners do the same things, that was told for the servants to do. Sorry, yes.


So you think saying you're a slave to an invisible being who may not even exist is the same thing as being an actual slave? How offensive to people who have actually had to suffer through slavery.


No. Both the servant and the owner are under God. But that is not the question nor answer. But the statements made for the person(owner) in regards to the person(servant) to do the same to one another, thus making them equals to one another. As that is the distinction.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 02:24 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Now, I will return the favor of answering your question with a question. Are there a lot of modern Christians that hold slaves?

Ugh. That question holds no relevance to my post. My post was in reply to what's in the Bible, not what modern Christians believe or what modern Christians embrace in their lives. The fact you are deliberately diverging from this is telling, man. Again, my posts, the verses I posted, were in reply to the notion the NT holds no condoning of mistreatment towards people. This tangent of yours I can only take as a fallacious move.
edit on 21-2-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: Created

Now with that stated Christ himself did not speak on slavery..

Wait what? lol

Some of the verses I posted were Christ's words. Alleged words, but still.
edit on 21-2-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:39 AM
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I've said it before, but it bears repeating, Muslims are nice for the most part, just like most people of most groups on the planet are nice. People are not stupid. I'm sure there are as many Muslims who take the Quran with a grain of salt as there are Christians and Jews who take the Bible and Torah with a grain of salt, but don't make waves and go with the flow just so the family don't get into a tizzy.

I tried to read the Quran once and only got to about page fifty. I'm sure there is wisdom in it but I got tired of wading through the fire and brimstone.

I don't personally believe that the Jewish Yaweh, the Chrisian God (Deus [Zeus!!!]) and the Islamic Allah are the same being. I think the press in the world would be doing humanity a big favor if they would stop making these various beings equivalents and used their original names when referring to them in the media.

This may sound like a divisive thing to do but I think it would provoke believers of all faiths to inquire more deeply into their own beliefs.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:51 AM
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a reply to: ipsedixit

Yet it's obviously understood they are both Abrahamic faiths. For a reason. Islam is an Abrahamic faith. Their god is the same god. Of course the doctrine diverges and conflicts. Just as Christian denominations conflict internally. Nonetheless they refer to the 'god of Abraham'.


I tried to read the Quran once and only got to about page fifty. I'm sure there is wisdom in it but I got tired of wading through the fire and brimstone.

Yeah that's how I felt about The Bible but I managed to bring myself to endure it..
edit on 21-2-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 04:03 AM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I think whenever you have religions being annotated by intermediaries, such as prophets, priests, etc., what started "pure as the driven snow" eventually "drifts". Anybody can assert that Yahweh, Deus or Allah is the "God of Abraham", but is Deus the "Allah of Abraham" or the "Yahweh of Abraham".

Would Abraham even recognize "Allah" or "Deus"?

Are Dr. Phil, Oprah and Jerry Springer actually the same person because somebody has asserted that they were all idolized by . . . some guy? Of course not. Why would anybody assert that Deus, Allah and Yahweh were the same god, when they are so demonstrably different?

Maybe I'm just being glib. Don't mind me. I'm judging the tree by its fruit and it seems to me that we are clearly dealing with three different trees here.
edit on 21-2-2015 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:43 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
Their god is the same god.

Show me a Muslim who worships Jesus as God Incarnate, and I'll show you a Muslim who worships the same God as Christians.

Islam reaches backwards and tries to claim the big names for itself (Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc) in order to gain credibility. But Islam and Christianity do not worship the same God. Jesus is God to Christians, but is only a prophet of sub-importance (as compared to Muhammad) to Muslims. It's not the same God.

ETA - and I'll add this, Jesus is NOT Muslim. That's just Islam trying to claim Jesus as one of their own, when He clearly isn't. Islam wasn't invented until 650 years after Jesus died on the cross; Islam denies the eyewitness accounts of Jesus being murdered; Jesus taught love and forgiveness and he said 'he without sin cast the first stone', whereas Islam teaches stoning to death of women supposedly caught in 'adultry', etc etc Islam and Jesus are polar opposites.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



edit on 2/21/2015 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:00 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
Their god is the same god.

Show me a Muslim who worships Jesus as God Incarnate, and I'll show you a Muslim who worships the same God as Christians.

Islam reaches backwards and tries to claim the big names for itself (Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc) in order to gain credibility. But Islam and Christianity do not worship the same God. Jesus is God to Christians, but is only a prophet of sub-importance (as compared to Muhammad) to Muslims. It's not the same God.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




Indeed. The God of Abraham, Who showed Himself to Moses, identified Himself as "YHVH," or if we look into the very ancient pictographic meanings of the letters, "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail." This is an obvious reference to Jesus, not Allah. Further, the words Pontus Pilate placed on a sign next to Jesus at the crucifixion read, in the Hebrew, such that the initials of the words (right to left) spell it out again: YHVH. That is why the Jewish leadership wanted Pilate to change it, but he held fast on that point, being the unsung hero of the hour. Surprise - Pilate was not the villain most people think he was.

Another unexpected reason to prefer Jesus over Allah - Jesus' incarnation came at a time when three climate cycles were all crossing the baseline from cold to warm, wet to dry. All together, 100 year, 500 year, and 1000 year cycles. It may seem trivial, but it indicates careful planning to me. When Muhammad appeared some centuries later, no cycles were lined up. Further, in Jesus' time, there really was peace on Earth, just as the angels told the shepherds - no wars anywhere. In Mohammad's time, wars were constant and universal.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Show me a Muslim who worships Jesus as God Incarnate

Predicated on the understanding Christians view Jesus and God to be one and the same divine entity. That's simply not accurate.

I actually made a poll for Christians in a huge Facebook group [a Christianity group] on just this. Had 4000+ participants. From differing Christian denominations and various countries. The choices were this:

Jesus Christ was just a human man.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. A separate but divine being.
Jesus Christ is God himself. Made manifest in human form.
Jesus Christ never existed.
Other.

The vast majority of people voted that Jesus was a divine but separate being to god.

Many variables there so it's certainly not ironclad, but I found it interesting. Regardless it's quite evident not all Christians believe Jesus Christ IS 'The Father'. ATS alone is testament to that. Many Christians here over the years have made it clear they believe they are separate entities.


Jesus is NOT Muslim


Jesus Christ isn’t Christian either.

…and yes that’s a statement I could make an argument for.

Historically you rarely reply to me. Keeping it short to feel it out.


whereas Islam teaches stoning to death of women supposedly caught in 'adultry'

As does the Christian Canon. The New Covenant doesn't change the fact it's Biblical.
edit on 21-2-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



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