Dead Teen Comes BACK TO LIFE as Mom Prays.

a reply to: TechUnique

I'd have to say that you are the one trying to paint this black or white by saying "God did it". It's much more complicated than that, there is a scientific explanation to what happened here and it has been presented in this thread more than once already but you refuse to accept it, all because if God DID do it, that affirms in your mind that your faith is true. That's called confirmation bias, reading into something in such a way to confirm preconceived notions.

Your analysis of this hasn't been genuine or trustworthy in my opinion. Instead of looking at it rationally, you paint it as either God or the devil and his demons, black or white.

originally posted by: TechUnique
I'm not a Bible scholar or a minister of the Gospel but I hope I can shed some light on your very pertinent and fair questions, albeit, by quoting the Gospel.

It's fine, I'm not opposed to reading scripture. I have to one extent or another, all of my life.

In regards to God not answering any and all prayers to prove himself miraculous please refer to the following scripture..

Matthew 4:7 - "Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
This is in reference to Satan tempting Jesus in the Desert. For more context;
"6and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'" 7Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'" 8Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;…" More here.

That's all well and good, if I was talking about prayers made in attempts to test God. I was referring to honest, selfless prayers from those who have faith and truly believe in God.

As for why he doesn't answer any and all personal prayers.. the scripture you are referring to is often taken out of context. God(through John) isn't talking about praying for your hearts desires or wants of the flesh. When we pray to God we not only have to have full faith in God, but what we are praying for has to line up with the will of God!

The scripture is allegedly what Jesus himself said and did not include any qualifications like "only if it is the will of God". Not in verses themselves or the context from which they are said (I just went and read the surrounding verses to be sure). Also, again, I was not referring to prayers about desires of the flesh but honest selfless prayers from those who have faith and truly believe in God. Prayers like healing amputees.

If you are praying for anything that doesn't entirely line up with the will of God, then he won't answer your prayers! A lot of people get confused with the often preached prosperity Gospel and think that God wants to shower us all with wealth and riches.

Where does it say this in the scripture? It certainly said nothing of the sort in the context of the verses I quoted. Personally I believe this doctrine of prayers lining up with God's will is just a way to explain away all the unanswered prayers, while clinging to seemingly miraculous things as answered prayers. But again, not one answered prayer that defies logic and could be used to glorify his name.

Why not one single amputee ever healed?

The thing is, we are looking for wealth and riches in all the wrong places!
Matthew 6:19 - '19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal;…'

Not sure why you thought I wanted answers as to why God doesn't answer prayers to make people wealthy and whatnot. I didn't.

Also, in regards to someone praying for someone not to die and it not happening, sometimes it's just people's time to go and God isn't going to save that person no matter how much you have faith and love that person. It sucks, but who are we to judge our creator!

Sure, death happens. Miraculous things happen and people survive horrible near death accidents too. Just like the boy in the video. No reason to attribute life and death to a God though.

Sorry for the wall of text and the scripture, but you asked a Biblical question backed up with scripture, so you got a Biblical answer, backed by scripture!

I like walls of text and scripture (probably for different reasons).

Peace.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TechUnique

So it's just as likely that a demon saved his life than God did? Good to know.

How do you know a demon didn't answer his mom's prayers? You say demons saved those Muslims lives so what's different about this situation? Confirmation bias mostly.

No I agree with you to a certain extent. Also you have to consider that God doesn't just save or use people of Christian faith. He will often save people who later turn to Christ and can give a very powerful testimony for him!

I know it seems easy as an unbeliever like yourself, to stand on the outside and rationalize all of this, but it's more complex than you think and a lot less black and white! (I'm talking of the spiritual realm)

This event can be rationalised, regardless of a spiritual realm. The kid's survival can be explained through logical and scientific means...

There is indeed a lot of deception and both God and Satan can use people, but Satan is the great deceiver! It is worth noting also that Allah is self proclaimed as the greatest deceiver!

Just food for thought.

This is veering into off-topic, but i personally consider the Jewish, Christian and Islamic Gods to all be one in the same. They are all Gods of Abrahamic faiths, and it would make sense to believe that all adherents to the Abarahamic religions bow to the one and same God. Where you consider Jesus to be the son of God, Muslims believe him to be a prophet of God. If Allah is the great deceiver, what does that make Jesus?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TechUnique

I'd have to say that you are the one trying to paint this black or white by saying "God did it". It's much more complicated than that, there is a scientific explanation to what happened here and it has been presented in this thread more than once already but you refuse to accept it, all because if God DID do it, that affirms in your mind that your faith is true. That's called confirmation bias, reading into something in such a way to confirm preconceived notions.

Your analysis of this hasn't been genuine or trustworthy in my opinion. Instead of looking at it rationally, you paint it as either God or the devil and his demons, black or white.

The medical professionals disagree with you. I'm not presenting this story dishonestly! Please explain to me how I am? Everyone in the story, from the doctors themselves, to the kid saved, to the mother, to the reporters and now me, believe it to be like this.

You could say that is because we are all Christians and that backs up what you said about confirmation bias, and I respect that opinion, but that is just what it is, an opinion.

As I said, there are medical professionals who disagree with you.

Truth be known, I believe faith-full prayer can effect change. When I was a Xtian, I saw some things that convinced me, at the time, that god answered prayer when it was in his will to do so. However, at this point in my life, I have also seen similar things happen to those who aren't even Xtian.

I do believe humans are more than the sum of our parts. If we ever get a handle on what we're truly capable of, our species, and our sciences, will take a huge leap forward. It just won't be due to any gods or demons. It will be what it has always been. Just us.

Demonic spirits can save people's flesh and stop them from dying. Did you know the Satan can offer you anything from wealth, health, fame and fortune?

He's all cool with you until you turn your back on his work or can no longer be of any use to him. Then he kills you! (Lets you die)

Sounds a lot like the God of the bible to me.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Every part of the Bible has to be taken into context with the rest of the Bible! That's what I mean by taken out of context! As for someone praying for an amputee to be healed, you could argue 'Why should God heal an amputee?'

originally posted by: TechUnique
As I said, there are medical professionals who disagree with you.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, including the doctors.

However the one thing that disagrees with their conclusions is,

Their medical knowledge and expertise.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: TechUnique

How many children a day pray to God to have a full belly?.
How many people pray to god not to die in a war zone?.
Sorry dude the human body can and does do great things but to call it a miracle....

Oh and of course the doctor would call it a miracle he is a Christian.
The chances are small of survival he said but that doesn't mean it was a miracle.

This world is not designed to have absolute proof of anything. You could argue that water only freezes at 32 degrees because people say it does.

You can't see slower moving molecules people take it on faith that "smart people" seem to accept it so it must be true.

There would be no point of free will if everything was certain. There will never be enough evidence to convince some people of anything.

In my world I am free to believe it was a miracle. As far as I'm concerned, I'm absolutely right. Where that leaves you is none of my concern.

a reply to: daaskapital

You're missing the point. Just because something miraculous has happened and can be explained Scientifically.. does not mean that it had nothing to do with God!

As I said, God created everything and uses everything according to his will. You can say that is a cop out and I respect your opinion, but what do you expect God to do every time he wants something done, Sound a parade and open the heavens?

originally posted by: TechUnique
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Every part of the Bible has to be taken into context with the rest of the Bible! That's what I mean by taken out of context! As for someone praying for an amputee to be healed, you could argue 'Why should God heal an amputee?'

Have you read the entire Bible yet? Just curious.

Show me some scripture where there are conditions on how prayer works.

I'm not saying there isn't any. I just can't recall any, if there is.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: TechUnique
As I said, there are medical professionals who disagree with you.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, including the doctors.

However the one thing that disagrees with their conclusions is,

Their medical knowledge and expertise.

I'm sure they would profusely disagree with you on that one. As would I, purely for the fact that they are trained medical professionals and clearly know what they are talking about. (In my opinion).

a reply to: TechUnique

There are also medical professionals that disagree with you, more so than with me I'm sure. One Christian doctor does not automatically discount years of research (on drowning victims) and a scientific explanation to what happened here.

Ask almost any doctor out there what happened here and they'll give you a medical and scientific explanation for it. Throw in a Christian doctor and tell him that the mom prayed and he might chalk it up to God, but that's only because praying was mentioned to someone who is already convinced prayer works.

This is a clear case of confirmation bias. The medical responders saved his life, not some invisible man in the sky.

Amazing story.

I personally find it amazing that there are still atheists out there.

Must be comforting to believe that when you die that's it.

As for me, well I don't know specifics but I believe it's a bit more complex than that.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Also, to add:

At the time Jesus allegedly said those things,

There was no Bible for full scale context.

He would have been taken at face value.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: TechUnique
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Every part of the Bible has to be taken into context with the rest of the Bible! That's what I mean by taken out of context! As for someone praying for an amputee to be healed, you could argue 'Why should God heal an amputee?'

Have you read the entire Bible yet? Just curious.

Show me some scripture where there are conditions on how prayer works.

I'm not saying there isn't any. I just can't recall any, if there is.

I haven't read the entire Bible but I'm getting there! As for exact scripture pertaining to how prayer works in regards to Gods will? I don't believe there is but by taking the whole Bible into context regarding the issue I meant the following;

If there is nowhere in the Bible saying that God wants amputees to have their limbs restored, why should you expect it to be in his will?

originally posted by: TechUnique
I'm sure they would profusely disagree with you on that one. As would I, purely for the fact that they are trained medical professionals and clearly know what they are talking about. (In my opinion).

I'm sure you need to re-watch the video than.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Also, to add:

At the time Jesus allegedly said those things,

There was no Bible for full scale context.

He would have been taken at face value.

There were Scriptures! But yes you are right, there wasn't the New Testament, that came after and because of Jesus. I fail to see the point in your argument other than a side note.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
Amazing story.

I personally find it amazing that there are still atheists out there.

Must be comforting to believe that when you die that's it.

As for me, well I don't know specifics but I believe it's a bit more complex than that.

What makes you think that all atheists believe "when you die, that's it"? Lack of belief in a deity doesn't preclude us from being spiritual. Some atheists believe that way, but not all.

originally posted by: TechUnique
I haven't read the entire Bible but I'm getting there! As for exact scripture pertaining to how prayer works in regards to Gods will? I don't believe there is but by taking the whole Bible into context regarding the issue I meant the following;

If there is nowhere in the Bible saying that God wants amputees to have their limbs restored, why should you expect it to be in his will?

The amputees thing is just one example..

And your argument is bad, here's why.

You say, "If there is nowhere in the Bible saying that God wants amputees to have their limbs restored, why should you expect it to be in his will?"

I will redirect you to the verses I quoted from Jesus.

"If you ask anything in my name, I will do it."

You're basically saying, since God doesn't say it's his will to do this specific thing, why should we expect it.

Where in the Bible did God say he will revive little boys that nearly drown in icy cold waters?

Why should we expect he did?

What all of this really comes down to is this.

The only prayers that are answered have rational logical explanations and the ones that aren't must not have been God's will. Studies done on the effectiveness of prayer show that there is none.

originally posted by: TechUnique
a reply to: daaskapital

You're missing the point. Just because something miraculous has happened and can be explained Scientifically.. does not mean that it had nothing to do with God!

I'm not missing the point. I already said that while i do not discount the works of a God or Gods, we must look at the conditions and scenarios of the incident itself. The medical professionals were the ones doing all the work, and it just so happens that the way in which the kid died may have greatly contributed to his survival also. These factors are more likely to result in one's survival than prayer.

As I said, God created everything and uses everything according to his will. You can say that is a cop out and I respect your opinion, but what do you expect God to do every time he wants something done, Sound a parade and open the heavens?

That's certainly your opinion and i won't bash you for it. This may have been a work of a God or Gods, but from what we know, the kid's survival can be chalked up to the actions of the medical professionals and the circumstances of the kid's death.