White House Petition to “Classify Refusal To Vaccinate Children As A Mental Disorder”

originally posted by: thisguy27
I refuse to receive vaccinations for things that don't exist or don't pose a threat to my health.

I've got my polio, rabies, measles, tetanus, and all that good stuff.

But I won't get one for the cold or H1N1 or Ebola.

If the common cold can kill me, a healthy young adult, then I don't see how effective a vaccination would be.

Well it's really hard to take a vaccination that doesn't exist, like for the common cold or Ebola. I think I finally found something everybody can agree on here. Vaccines that don't exist are completely ineffective at preventing the spread of disease.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Semicollegiate

That swine flu vaccine you cite is one example of one that was rushed through without proper safety and efficacy testing. My husband knew there was no way they could have done any reasonable degree of testing on it. It was one reason why we didn't get it and wouldn't have unless the swine flu turned out to be far more deadly than a self-quarantine would have handled.

I did not get the swine flu vaccine either. It was rushed usually medicine takes years to be cleared. I am talking about the established vaccines, has anybody ever been told in confidence by a doctor that he does not vaccinate his own kids or that you should not vaccinate your kids? Are there concerns of people familiar with the matter regarding vaccines?

Do folks who drink too much and then drive "have a right" to endanger others?

Do folks with a right to carry a firearm have the "right" to start firing in their backyard in any direction?

Do folks have a "right" to dump their sewage into a creek or river?

Do folks with HIV have a "right" to have unprotected sex with as many as possible?

Do folks have a "right" to burn trash in the woods during a drought?

Is there a balance possible between individual rights and the rights and safety of the many?

All other arguments aside... informed consent is the cornerstone of medical ethics.

I may regard those who refuse vaccinations as misinformed and ill advised personally. However, I defend their absolute right to refuse to receive any and all medical treatment as their sole, inviolable prerogative. And that includes the right to refuse vaccinations. Such refusal is no more a "mental illness" than someone refusing a life saving surgery "just because they don't want to do it." They don't need a good reason. It is their right, period, full stop as far as I'm concerned.

That said, I also defend the right of private and publically owned places of business to require vaccination or bar people's access to employment in said places of business and/or activity. I find that a fair compromise personally. (E.g. nurses being fired if they refuse to receive vaccinations. They have the right to refuse and I will defend that right. Their employer likewise has the right to terminate their employment. Fair enough for me.)

I would also support forced (but humane and comfortable) quarantine of anyone who contracts serious contagious illnesses as a result of such refusal (provided there is unequivocal data proving they are carrying the disease and contagious.) I am probably an outlier in this position of compromise, but it is my view. Feel free to disagree.

Peace.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: sanitizedinfo
Health care bill of rights my arse, this mental health law is based in faulty judgement and guesswork science prescribing an order of organ failure with a side of dictatorship.

This is a petition put up by somebody probably looking to get a laugh. This is not a law before congress. This is not a mental health law and even if it were before congress it has nothing to do with them and they are unable to take the requested action.

In the history of collectivist government, this tactic has been used before

Anti-Soviet political behavior, in particular, being outspoken in opposition to the authorities, demonstrating for reform, writing books were defined in some persons as being simultaneously a criminal act (e.g., violation of Articles 70 or 190-1), a symptom (e.g., "delusion of reformism"), and a diagnosis (e.g., "sluggish schizophrenia").[7] Within the boundaries of the diagnostic category, the symptoms of pessimism, poor social adaptation and conflict with authorities were themselves sufficient for a formal diagnosis of "sluggish schizophrenia."[8]
en.wikipedia.org...

Wow. The government classifying anything as a mental disorder is a pretty terrible idea. I don't believe holding any one belief should classify anyone as mentally ill. I mean is racism a mental disorder? Homophobia? Fundamentalism? Personally held beliefs, no matter how much I vehemently oppose them, cannot be defined by the government as mental illnesses.

This is the kind of hysterical backlash effort we truly didn't need. This doesn't enhance the level of transparency, discourse or education surrounding this subject. It merely creates the pressure to pick a side which could concrete positions into place despite whatever information may become available.

Now this may speak to just how clouded the issue is getting by loaded information coming from all sides. Alarmist, fear mongering reporting with hasty conclusions. That's how you build faith, not logical decision making. The facts will ultimately speak for themselves and whatever steps folks and institutions eventually need to take in light of the facts are understandable but all this effort should be going towards education and independent studies. Petition to get clear answers for whatever your concern is and go from there. Self determine the risks.

We (hopefully) don't need more common sense legislature it's bad policy but we extra don't need outbreaks of what could be controlled. I feel like no matter what the opinion on vaccines is, the call for more study is there, alongside the desire for loved ones to be exposed to the least amount of danger. Hopefully we can figure out the best way to get there before this issue becomes so polarized that there's little room for teamwork.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

originally posted by: beezzer
I hope they succeed with the petition.

It'll be interesting to finally see who are the ones that would embrace a government that dictates to them.

We really should put those people in internment camps. It would be a win-win for everyone.

The people that accept the dangers of reality live outside of the camps. The people that want government protection can live in their equivalent of a statist utopia.

If we did that we'd become the dictators and everybody would end up in an internment camp. Those camps are pretty much hallmarks of dictatorships. Haha

a reply to: rickymouse

Viruses do, in fact, need hosts to mutate. Improper use of antibiotics, chiefly not finishing the course, has been cited as a cause for increased resistance in bacterial infection (ie, MRSA). Risk of mutation in viruses goes up with the frequency of cases.

my logic is if these vaccinations are safe and effective, then those vaccinated should not get sick from those who have not been and vice versa, so... how many of you died from the flu this season, i live in bangor maine... havnt even gotten sick yet, but ive never been vaccinated, ever

a reply to: xuenchen

Many children of wealthy educated people are not vaccinated.....Ya wanna know why. They actually took the time and did the homework involved. Drug companies want to sell products like vaccines it is a business not based on good intentions but profit.


Think I am nuts look at the Amish autism rates......Look. That being said I am not anti-vaccine I am pro making good decisions for your family. I am pretty sure the guys who wrote the constitution would agree.



The US had 650 measles cases last year.......That is .0000018571%. Think about why they are making such a big deal over this while letting other things slide.......Money.

Seems to me that folks are barking up the wrong tree if their agendas are to save lives.

Hospital and medical errors are now the third leading cause of death in the US.

Various studies have been performed about medical errors. A phone survey by the National Patient Safety Foundation found that 42% of people believed they had experienced a medical error personally or to a relative or friend. The Institute of Medicine (IOM) reports on two studies estimating the hospital deaths due to medical errors at 44,000 to 98,000 annually, which would place medical errors in the top ten causes of death in the USA. Barbara Starfield's article in JAMA places the estimates even higher, citing a total of 225,000 deaths due to iatrogenic causes, which would place health-caused deaths as the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA. Holland et al (1997) estimates as many as 1 million patients are injured while in the hospital and approximately 180,000 die as a result, with the majority due to medication adverse reactions.

www.rightdiagnosis.com...

I agree with a couple of members here that the more educated and sometimes wealthier folks have made the decision to not vaccinate or at least know enough to request and can afford the single dose vaccines that contain fewer heavy metals.

People that scream absurdities like that on the WH petition are, in my opinion, not too terribly bright.