Pat Condell , An Athiests look at Islam

I like Pats take on things and I have noticed how quick people jump on you for believing what he is saying. I was banned from a website for posting his video and called racist (like Muslim is a race)!

I think I have watched all his videos, this looks like a new one so thanks for posting!

Sure you will get people here calling him for being anti muslim, but those are the people he is talking about who will not address anything to do with Muslims and Islam being in any way responsible for fundamentalist behaviour, the ones who think we can all live in a multicultual society allowing the best and worst of each religion.

I have seen a few threads on here about the majority of the Muslim faith staying quiet when in their name appaling acts of violence are committed, Pat just takes it to the next level, they dont apologise because as part of their religion they agree with it, they have to!


But yeah, I like the guy and I like what he says.

To clarify my point

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The trouble with this fellow is, that he has failed in one particular. He has picked sides.

If his message were "both islamophobic hate, and anti-semitism are toxic, cancerous positions, and both should be neutralised with ultimate and unflinching force where ever they are to be found" then I could agree with him, because THAT is the truth.

Here is another bit of truth. I would rather be dead, than live in a society where the actions of a minority within a minority, constitute grounds for actions which discriminate against the entire minority. Living in a society which is prepared to enact policy based on creed or colour, religious beliefs or political ideology, is not what my grandfathers fought for during the Second World War, not what they fought to protect.

The truth is that there are no new Jews, to steal a line from the video, or new nazis. There are Nazi fascist scum in both camps, and both those elements need to have their skulls dashed asunder, and their contents mashed beyond all possible repair. Any discrimination, any violence, any slight aimed toward reasonable people on either side of the religious divide being referred to in this video however, would also be fascist. Our response to both Jews and Muslims must be PERFECT, and without the smallest mistake, in order that the fascists be rooted out of both demographics.

Our borders, and those of the EU, need to be linked in with one another, so that we know who is coming in, where from, what they did before arriving, and if they have any history with any group with a history of hate. If they do, they should be either dropped out of an aircraft over their homeland with a parachute, or arrested on the spot and detained until trial for whatever international terrorism or warcrime related charges might be pending.

Neither the most foam mouthed child murdering, hospital air striking Israeli politicians, nor the most vicious, bus bombing, pus filled islamofascist should be allowed to enter the EU, or any nation within it. However, reasonable persons of ALL faiths and creeds should be left the hell alone to live their lives in peace.

In short, unless we can police this situation PERFECTLY, without actually harming or infuriating someone who does not deserve it, then we might as well give it up. The options this man presents us with, are binary. We either do ANYTHING or nothing, with a preference for anything. If the choices were so simple, then I would agree with him to an extent, but they are not. There are many ways to police this situation, but unless we choose the path of perfect balance here, allowing each to follow their path in peace, unless they, specifically are intent on violence, then we have chosen wrongly. So the real choice is, we either do any knee jerk thing we can, nothing, or secure ourselves with perfect moral and ethical tools to ensure that the maximum liberty is offered those who can partake of it in the spirit in which it is offered.

No innocent person, of ANY ethnic or religious background, must ever again feel victimised by a state. We have no control over what happens on sovereign soil in other lands, and it is my belief that this is as it should be, for colonialism is a Roman thing, and should never have become a Celtic thing, like it did during the days of the Empire. However, we must ensure that our application of justice to these matters is flawless, because we CAN exert a measure of control in OUR countries here in the EU, and on a purely national level, in the UK.

It will however, take thought, even handedness, and there will be no cookie cutter, multiple choice simplicity in its application. That is the relatively low cost of freedom, liberty, and safety for all concerned.

Mr Condell however has ignored this untrodden road, perhaps because he is himself blinded by his feelings.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

his point is that Jews arent running around demanding we make concessions for them in the countries they live in.

Really? That may be his perspective. Try reading Norman Finkelstein on the Holocaust Industry - it may enlighten your Zionist leanings

ANOTHER islamophobia thread trying to justify why we should hate all Muslims... Man this is getting old.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

his point is that Jews arent running around demanding we make concessions for them in the countries they live in.

Really? That may be his perspective. Try reading Norman Finkelstein on the Holocaust Industry - it may enlighten your Zionist leanings

I love how people use the term zionist now as a cloaked way to be biggoted........the non PC crowd is on to you though.....

Heres a funnier one, the same people who throw around the term zionist , and have no issue with it, and KNOW what they are using the term for, call other people racist who see muslim extremism as a bad thing and take issue with it......

The hypocrisy is hilarious.....

I think this addresses it well.....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
ANOTHER islamophobia thread trying to justify why we should hate all Muslims... Man this is getting old.

Thank you for illustrating his point beautifully

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yea ok. A guy makes a video full of the same Islamophobia talking points as the media and you think he is more credible because he is an atheist? This is just more straight up bigotry to dehumanize the whole population for the sins of the few.

It is really getting disgusting that such bigotry is being celebrated here on ATS instead of being deleted.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yea ok. A guy makes a video full of the same Islamophobia talking points as the media and you think he is more credible because he is an atheist? This is just more straight up bigotry to dehumanize the whole population for the sins of the few.

Same as the media?

Did you even listen to the video?

Its completely DIFFERENT then the media.......

The MEDIA along with the world govs refuse to call it what it is.......

Infact the MEDIA and progressives are usually the first to jump on the bandwagon and try to blame it on something else, anything else other than Islam........"Oh its because hes mad about western agression" stop it......

The rest of us with a thimble full of common sense see this crap for what it is and were tired of the political correct spin thats put on everything....

Where tired of those of us who take issue with these Jihadis, and being called racist when we call it out for what it is......

the whole population for the sins of the few.

Theres nothing racist about saying that Islam needs refermation to pull them out of the dark ages......

They opress women...

Kill gays......

Stone adulterers......

Women are only worth half the man....

And a multitude of other things.........

If Christianity was doing this people would squash it.........

However other religions dont have such violent tendencies so people have no issue attacking them........

People are SCARED of Islam so this sort of behavior is allowed to thrive........

Again, I know not all Muslims believe this, which is WHY there needs to be reformation to fix these issues within their religion

a reply to: TrueBrit

religious beliefs or political ideology, is not what my grandfathers fought for during the Second World War, not what they fought to protect.

Sorry to say this but you do realize your grandfather died for an illusion of freedom from an enemy created by the Balfour Declaration and usurious loan terms imposed upon Germany post WW1?
I mean its there in black and white how US was dragged into the War having been warned of an attack on Pearl Harbour, or how the Harriman/Bush helped Hitler rise to power or how even Marxism and the USSR was a creation of Globalist monopolists.

Have the profiteers ever to use your words "If they do, they should be either dropped out of an aircraft over their homeland" ?

for colonialism is a Roman thing, and should never have become a Celtic thing

So are you gonna foot the bill for looting done by the East India Company in drug dealing to the Chinese, how about the Churchs dealings with pedophilia? Oh thats right colonialism died in the 19th century according to your version of history.

What about the British involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why are War Criminals like Major and Blair running around free and enjoying cozy retirements when their hands are blood stained?

You Grandfather unknowingly did die for ideological beliefs. What are your cousins/brothers dying for now in Iraq? Propping up a $US petrodollar supporting a bankrupt USA? Or ensuring drugs safely find their way back to western economies via miltary cargo carriers to bankroll politicians or further black ops in faraway lands inimical to US/British interests?

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

from Sremmos80

Ya I looked at his channel, it is littered anti islam/ pro israel anti progressive videos with like the exception of a handful or two.
Just seems like he has a horse in this race.

To ManBehindTheMask

I said Zionist leanings I didnt call you an Islamaphobe. BTW did you bother to look at Finklestein for maybe 5 or 4 minutes? Thought not.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

All very good points sir.

Let me address them. My grandfathers fought against a regime that DID murder millions of people of various ethnicities and backgrounds. They fought because it was the right thing to do, and because failure to do so would have lead to a dictatorship rising up right next door. They were both smart men, and knew what political spin was. Furthermore, they understood exactly how vital it was that someone stop the Nazis, regardless of who funded them or why. Incidentally, my grandfathers both came home. Different men than when they left, but both came home.

The profiteers that may have benefited from the conflicts collectively known as the Second World War, damned well should have answered for their collusion in events. That they did not is nothing to do with me or mine, because we are from a powerless end of the social strata. It's more complicated than that, but the crux will suffice.

The actions of the East India Company, and for that matter all actions undertaken by any appendage of the British government, its navy, its army, and all other tendrils, during the creation of, or maintenance of the Empire, are not ones that I condone. I condone only the stalwart defence of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, the British Isles themselves, and allies who request aid, from military assault. That anything has ever happened other than that in the history of my nation, is both unfortunate, and outside my control.

However, I never supported the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, precisely because of what you are talking about. What I fail to understand, is why you have responded to my post in this way, rather than actually addressing any of the points I made about why the gentleman in the video which is the fulcrum upon which this thread turns, refuses to understand this issue with enough finesse and complexity, despite being equipped to do so by his obvious intelligence.

I suggest it is because his hate is not even excused by the brainwashing of a religious body, but is something that he has come up with independently, and as a result of media manipulation of his understanding of the situation.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I'd just like to point out that I am very aware of the silence in intellectual critique of the inroads made by Islam into dismantling all things Western. But this is harder to quantify/qualify as there appears to be a hidden hand for want of a better words thats allowing for Islamization of our western heritage and stifling debate sorely needed as to what sort of society we want to create for our future.

My eyes have been opened for a long time, I visit gatesofvienna.net... to see what MSM wont tackle.
I am also aware that Albert Pike and his globalists planned WW3 150 years ago - and that it would be a war of the West versus Islam

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yea ok. A guy makes a video full of the same Islamophobia talking points as the media and you think he is more credible because he is an atheist? This is just more straight up bigotry to dehumanize the whole population for the sins of the few.

Same as the media?

Did you even listen to the video?

Its completely DIFFERENT then the media.......

The MEDIA along with the world govs refuse to call it what it is.......

Depends on what side of the media you are getting your information from. The right wing media consisting of Fox News, Breitbart, etc are all too eager to push the Islamaphobia crap.

Infact the MEDIA and progressives are usually the first to jump on the bandwagon and try to blame it on something else, anything else other than Islam........"Oh its because hes mad about western agression" stop it......

Yea, god forbid we stop and try to reason logically on someone's actions and instead just jump and blindly start hating people.

The rest of us with a thimble full of common sense see this crap for what it is and were tired of the political correct spin thats put on everything....

What common sense? All I see is people frothing at the mouth looking for reasons to hate people who are different than them.

Where tired of those of us who take issue with these Jihadis, being called racist when we call it out for what it is......

There is nothing wrong with having a problem with the people actually causing problems. It is when you start labeling the WHOLE religion with those problems that you are called a racist.

Your entire perspective of Muslims is skewed by the media telling you to hate them. Where is your condemnation for the cartels?

Theres nothing racist about saying that Islam needs refermation to pull them out of the dark ages......

They opress women...

Kill gays......

Stone adulterers......

Women are only worth half the man....

And a multitude of other things.........

Only in the third world with theocratic governments do they do these things. Muslims in the 1st world act like you and me.

If Christianity was doing this people would squash it.........

Christianity HAS done these things.

However other religions dont have such violent tendencies so people have no issue attacking them........

All religions have violent tendencies. It comes with the territory of zealotism.

People are SCARED of Islam so this sort of behavior is allowed to thrive........

People are scared of Islam because the Right wing media tells them to be scared of them. Read that thread I posted earlier in this post. You SHOULD be more scared of the cartels than Muslims.

Again, I know not all Muslims believe this, which is WHY there needs to be reformation to fix these issues within their religion

And who should do this reformation? You? The west?

a reply to: TrueBrit

That they did not is nothing to do with me or mine, because we are from a powerless end of the social strata. It's more complicated than that, but the crux will suffice

I hear what you're saying - we have the same self serving politicians and draconian (post 911) laws here in Australia as well.

What I fail to understand, is why you have responded to my post in this way, rather than actually addressing any of the points I made about why the gentleman in the video which is the fulcrum upon which this thread turns,

sorry but War and the casualties pisses me off no end

Living in a society which is prepared to enact policy based on creed or colour, religious beliefs or political ideology, is not what my

You do realize that since 911 thats how they sold a bill of goods to attack afghanistan and Iraq - Cave Dwelling Arabs, when as you correctly state - "constitute grounds for actions which discriminate against the entire minority" -

A pity how the Wahhabi Saudis were never bought to justice for their ties to Bin Ladin. Of course he has picked sides. There is a whole victim industry out there tied to the Holocaust/Zionism

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Of course I understand these things you mention. They are part of the reason I came here in the first place, looking for folk who also understood the insanity of it all, the hypocrisy involved, and the gamesmanship.

But crucially, us understanding these things is all very well, but as long as the Condell's of the world have a platform to keep ratcheting the tension up, keep refusing to imagine their fellow human beings complexly enough to accept that harming innocents to capture and defend against threats, is just as invalid as becoming a terrorist oneself, nothing will change!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Muslims in the 1st world act like you and me.

in response to "Women are only worth half the man" from ManBehindTheMask

I live in Western Australia and I see it regurlarly how Muslims dont act with Western anglo-saxons values. And fair enough.
I visit their countries and respect their traditions. But on the same hand to say that Muslim women are treated as equal to men BY their own men - in 1st world is drawing a long bow

I am tired of criticism of Euro backround values using the catch all of racism. It be'd more intellectually honest to call it for what it is Cultural/ethnic sublimation of western values.

We all like to ignore the elephant in the room. Whole suburbs in England and Paris where no anglo saxon dare enter.
Forced multi-culturism - National borders are next - oh hang on there are no borders within the EU

a reply to: TrueBrit

imagine their fellow human beings complexly enough to accept that harming innocents to capture and defend against threats, is just as invalid as becoming a terrorist oneself, nothing will change!

Thanx, I think we share a lot in common. However we must allow this under freedom of speech...its a shame we're not allowed the same in voicing opposition/critique against Zionism or Israels continuing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians without being branded Anti-semite and landing in jail

a reply to: Forensick

They know he speaks the truth, they are just trying to convince others he is not.

Wicked little sons of the father of lies.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

And what have you to say about people who decry his BS for what it is, while realising that equal application of the law to all persons and demographics, is more likely to result in a properly balanced society, than overt islamophobia?

What have you to say about people who fit neither of your narrow pigeon holes?