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Christianities Strange Alliance

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posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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There is something I just can't figure out about the alliances with Abrahamic religions. Judaism views Jesus as a false Massiah having no claim to the divine and Islam recognizes Jesus as being a Messiah and being divine yet generally speaking Judaism is favored by Christianity over Islam. I am wondering how this alliance came to be. Is it finding common ground on something people agree on that is a positive(i.e. Jesus was divine) is less powerful than agreement on a negative(i.e. Mohamad is a false profit)?

Both Judaism and Christianity agree Mohamad to be a false profit.

Both Islam and Christianity agree Jesus was divine.

Judaism rejects both Jesus and Mohamad as divine.

The levels of animosity between these religions are bewildering to me. It isn't that I want the paradigm to shift unless it was for everyone to get along better, to me it seems like relations between Islam and Christianity should be much better than they are because of common ground core beliefs.



Judaism generally views Jesus as one of a number of Jewish Messiah claimants who have appeared throughout history. Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging, of all false messiahs. However, since the mainstream Jewish belief is that the Messiah has not yet come and the Messianic Age is not yet present, the total rejection of Jesus as either messiah or deity in Judaism has never been a central issue for Judaism.

Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfilments of prophecy that Christianity attributes to Jesus. Judaism also forbids the worship of a person as a form of idolatry, since the central belief of Judaism is the absolute unity and singularity of God. Jewish eschatology holds that the coming of the Messiah will be associated with a specific series of events that have not yet occurred, including the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of The Temple, a Messianic Age of peace and understanding during which "the knowledge of God" fills the earth, and since Jews believe that none of these events occurred during the lifetime of Jesus (nor have they occurred afterwards), he is not a candidate for messiah.Judiasm and Jesus




Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and al-Masih (the Messiah) in Islam who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, the Gospel. The belief that Jesus is a prophet is required in Islam. This is reflected in the fact that he is clearly a significant figure in the Qur'an, appearing in 93 ayat (or verses), though Noah, Adam and Moses appear with even greater frequency. It states that Jesus was born to Mary as the result of virginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God. To aid in his ministry to the Jewish people, Jesus was given the ability to perform miracles (such as healing the blind, bringing dead people back to life, etc.) which no other prophet in Islam has ever been credited with, all by the permission of God rather than of his own power. According to the Quran, Jesus, although appearing to have been crucified, was not killed by crucifixion or by any other means; instead, "God raised him unto Himself". In the 19th Sura of the Quran (in verses 15 and 33), Jesus is blessed on "the day he was born and the day he will die and the day he is raised alive", which clearly declares that Jesus will experience a natural death, and will be raised again on the day of judgment.

Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Traditionally, Islam teaches the rejection of the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God. The Quran says that Jesus himself never claimed to be the Son of God, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk), emphasising a strict notion of monotheism. An alternative interpretation of this theology is held by Messianic Muslims.

Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Quran and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ ("the Messiah"). Jesus is also, at times, called "Seal of the Israelite Prophets", because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet sent by God to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is traditionally understood in Islam to have been a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter's coming; however, according to Muslim scholars this prophecy is in the Chapter Al-Saff verse six.

Jesus is unique for being the only prophet in Islam who neither married nor had any children.Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false Messiah", also known as the Antichrist). Jesus will not return as a new prophet; Muhammad was the final prophet, but will continue from where he left off at the time of his ascension. Jesus in Islam




posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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Divide and conquer is the name of the game, they've played it flawlessly so far.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

Do they believe in the "love thy neighbour and thy enemies; and do unto others as you would have them do to you" Jesus or another Jesus?

Many things in the Gospels makes references to The Torah (Old Testament).

One thing all 3 religions agree on is that God is merciful.

They also all agree on the "Hear ye, for The Lord your God is One Lord" verse



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

Many Christians believe that the success of Israel is necessary for the return of their gods. They also believe that Jews will be converted at the end. Muslims aren't really in the Christian bible so most Christian exposure to them is through the news which paints Muslims as American Christian haters.

It's twisted logic and, personally if I were a Jew, I'd be offended by being favored by Christians under those motives. If a group of people only supported me because they want me to ultimately fall sooner than later, I wouldn't really consider them friends.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: Grimpachi

Many Christians believe that the success of Israel is necessary for the return of their gods. They also believe that Jews will be converted at the end. Muslims aren't really in the Christian bible so most Christian exposure to them is through the news which paints Muslims as American Christian haters.

It's twisted logic and, personally if I were a Jew, I'd be offended by being favored by Christians under those motives. If a group of people only supported me because they want me to ultimately fall sooner than later, I wouldn't really consider them friends.


I agree with most of this post with the only real disagreement coming from your understanding of the nuances of orthodox trinitarian belief however that is for a different thread.
Darby's Dispensationalist beliefs really is the cause of a lot of Christians understanding of Israel and its place in their eschatology.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

That is a very interesting thread with some great information though I didn't see the answer to my question there I still S&F it.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Cuervo


It's twisted logic and, personally if I were a Jew, I'd be offended by being favored by Christians under those motives. If a group of people only supported me because they want me to ultimately fall sooner than later, I wouldn't really consider them friends.



I don't think they do....ever heard of a goyim.

library.flawlesslogic.com...



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

That is a very interesting thread with some great information though I didn't see the answer to my question there I still S&F it.


The answer is in the fact that Christians view Israel in light of a understanding that they are Gods Chosen people without really understanding what is meant by the title.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

Can you tell me why Christians side more with Jews than with Muslims? I see Cuervo is making some good points.

As far as your question "Do they believe in the love thy neighbour and thy enemies" I think you should really look into that because you would be surprised how far they will go to defend an enemy. Their religion is an extenuation of the Christian religion and there are many similarities.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:47 PM
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I think it more important to look at the histories of the religions then, to worry about their claims about a Deliver or Messenger.

Moses originally was said to be the messiah or the "Deliver from Evil"( Or he Delivered Evil, like the 10 plagues) from the what I recall of his story, and is heavily revered in all three of the faiths.

Jesus can be a tough, and confusing one though. If you look at the main plot of Jesus story, you'll find he is quite the rebel IMO, where as he did heal, and his religious view or philosophy revolved around mainly morals and kindness. However, he also caused problems with his power.

For example, after the incident at the Jewish temple and him talking about rebuilding his temple, people may have wanted his blood, and if he wasn't going to executed, he would of started a riot within Jerusalem that would of lead the Jews going against the Romans that were occupying. Also the fact that, a vote about whom to execute on passover was made to excute Jesus, whom had done nothing but expressed his believe, was chosen, over s serial killer that they let free.

So Jesus is a false one to their cultural view, but their are some Modern Jews that believe the story of Jesus had important elements of history, like the fact of "Gehenna" being real.

As for Mohammed, this can be a dosy really. Think of it this way, there was no record of Moses or Jesus at all, but it possible(from what I've read) that Mohammed was in fact, a real person. However, I doubt the story he presents is on par of Moses and Jesus, where as they are Godly or mighty really. Where as, he commonly presents himself as a speaker of God, rather then a hand of it.

And that Islam, had been based off over 300 pagan idols that belong to a once, multicultural "Mecca", and that he used the Jewish and Christians Texts as basis for his religion. Like how Jinn are based off Genies, or Angels in their religion is based of "Harpies".

I wouldn't worry about really.

edit on 31-1-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: Cuervo

It does seem like twisted logic. This has been something that has been on my mind for a while and I couldn't work out on my own.

Christianity is dependent on the success of Israel for the second coming it may be as simple as that. Good point.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: Punisher75

To be honest, I don't really understand the title myself. It just seems to me relations between these religions shold be better than they are.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

Is it that hard to see Grim ? Really?
I believe in Jesus Christ. Of Jewish descent.
God favored the Jews in only one way. As the people whereby
God would send mankinds deliverer. And I speculate, that it
was because, they we're a nation which represented all mankind.
Without a corrupt geneology.

SnF for your benevolent interest.

edit on Rpm13115v122015u17 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: Specimen

I agree the histories of religions are important, but I am trying to figure out how the current paradigm has come about with relations between these religions. I think understanding this is pretty important considering the level of hostility it causes.

One of the things I consider when thinking on the subject is the environment the two figures were in. Rome was a very civilized society in the world at the time of Jesus and Mohamad didn't have that luxury. If you look in the OT the stories are filled with more swords than shields. I have read from many that Mohamad was warlike, however that was required as you pointed out because the area was multicultural and much harsher than what Jesus had to deal with. The scenarios were far different from each other for what was needed to gather people to one religion.

It just seems foolish that Christianity and Islam have been at such odds when they are so similar in core beliefs.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

So if I am understanding you correctly you are saying that because Jesus was from Jewish decent that Christianity favors Judaism even though they deny Jesus to be divine in any way.

Is it really because of his heritage and it is that simple?



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

I heard bill on hbo last nite say that the countries surrounding isis are an enemy to isis. Just by saying something does not make it true. Islam does not accept Jesus but recently there is a movement used to try to convert by pretending such.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

It actually depend's which branch of Judaism, the later branch born probably in central europe is more at odd's with christianity making spurious claims many hundred's of years after the Expulsion by the roman's based on what sources?, there record's had gone up in flame's with the temple, that christ as the son of a Roman soldier called Pantera while the original branch of non messianic judaism or true judaism were essentially simply denying he was the messiah as he had not fullfilled there own interpretation of the scripture which is actually in line with the book of revelation.
The early unified christian Church scholars often double checked there own work against the Judaic text's and actually after Christianity became the state religion of Constantine's empire the empire needed a scapegoat, while nero etc had used the christian's they turned to the Jew's - and the non conformist and gnostic christian sect's also, the Jew's survived while many other's did not.
Islam appeared in the mid to late seventh Century Anno Dominai and immediately set about beheading Jew's and Christians who refused to convert, there were Jewish and Christian tribed in Arabia for example were most of the Christian Tribe's had once been Jewish by faith, Islam also started spouting how the Christian's were wrong and Christ never died, had never been Crucified and how he had killed a little boy who had interrupted him while he was writing in the sand, in other word's it both corrupted the word's of christ and it created scenario's that any Christian or Messianic Jew would have been outraged by.

Judaism was not a power at this time and it's adherant's were scattered while Christianity the entrenched power was soon faced with the warlike and aggressively expanding new religion of Islam, the original form of the Minnarete which is a corruption of the islamic word minora or lighthouse is often attributed to Islamic art and ingenuity but is actually based on Roman and Byzantium Lighthouse design's as were used for the guiding of ship's and the Great Lighthouse of alexandria was almost identical to some early islamic Minarrette in shape though obvious functionality was different.

As Islam spread west it murdered, raped, invaded and suppressed christian people until all of north africa and asia minor were under islamic rule, they reached into the very heart of europe and were only driven back by a last desperate act by the defenders of Vienna.

Later the ottomon Turks were only stopped at the battle of Lepanto.

The north African Berber Slavers raided europe for over a thousand year's and entire stretches of formerly densely packed southern european coastline's became deserted as million's of people were taken into slavery, europe later took up this practice in a period of anti christian hypocrissy when they acted very much toward the african's as the Berbers had acted toward them but at the very least it was stopped after a few hundred year's when the voice of christian reformer's on both side's of the atlantic bacame too loud to ignore.

Old wound's and the fact that Islam tell's it follower's that non believer's should be struck on the back of the neck (Beheaded) is the reason, the idiology is in direct conflict as well with Islam actually calling Christianity mistaken as well as Denying that christ is the son of God though some sect's accept him as an aspect of god they are minority in islam and Islam claim's christianity is wrong where as Christianity does not say this of Judaism only that they are wrong about Christ.

But of course Judaism say's they are both Wrong so it is allied to neither of them.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: deadeyedick




Just by saying something does not make it true


I agree. Now what were you saying?



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi




Is it really because of his heritage and it is that simple?


I know you're right. It does seem trivial but, that's the
humankind for ya.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

That is easy.

Jews and Christian worship the same god, Elohim, YHWH.


Christians understand that the Jews did not accept Jesus as of yet and will not until the End Times.

Muslims do not worship the same god as Jews and Christians. There is no Jesus / Yahshua in Islam. There is Isa. Anyone with half a brain can clearly see Isa and Yahshua are definitely not the same person.


“Allah” being worshipped as a deity can be found in the Epic of Atrahasis chiseled on several tablets dating to around 1700 BC and was not found in Arabian records, but in Babylonian, this deity was described nearly four millennia ago to be a god of “violence and revolution”.


edit on 31-1-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)




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