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Works are the bridge between love and faith.

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posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 10:44 AM
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Some (if not most) Christians claim that good works are the product of faith, that if someone has faith then good works will automatically follow. This is backwards, faith is actually the end result of good works not the other way around. If someone does good works, faith will automatically follow.

What happens when a good deed (work) is witnessed? Faith is gained, which is why when someone sees a good deed they say "faith in humanity restored" or something similar. Faith is the end result of love. If you love someone you do good works toward them and thus faith is gained from those good works.

Love > Good Works > Faith

Paul says that these three remain: faith, hope, and love but the greatest is love. He is only about 2/3 right, what he's missing here is good works. It should be faith, good works, and love, with love being the greatest. Paul swept good works (1/3 of faith, "hope", and love) under the rug and replaced it with another word for faith (hope). Didn't the dragon from Revelation sweep 1/3 of the stars from the sky?


Romans 3
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.


Are we justified by faith like Paul says? In a way yes because if there is no faith then no good works were performed which means our actions were evil and thus unjustifiable, which is why Paul says faith is what justifies us because it is the end result of love and good works. Good works are justified, good works lead to faith (hope) and thus faith is what justifies us.

Are we justified by faith apart from the law though? No, because without the works of the law of love (good works) no faith is gained. If someone sees a person rob an old lady then beat her, will they have faith in humanity? Of course not because only good works lead to a gain of faith.

Maybe we should have faith in love (God) instead of a sacrifice. If everyone had faith in love then good works would come forth and the world would become a better place. Belief in a sacrifice has no tangible benefits, belief in love does because it produces good works and good works benefit all.


James 2
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


Why is faith without works dead? Because faith without works isn't faith at all, only a shadow or copy of the real thing, it is a sham. Love leads to good works and good works lead to faith so if you do not do good works by loving others then no faith is gained, hence faith without works is dead.

Paul and the church changed the meaning of faith from belief in love (God is love) to belief in a sacrifice. Love is life, sacrifice is death. Those who have faith in a sacrifice worship death thinking it brings life. Only life brings life.


John 10
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."


Even if you do not have faith, believe in Jesus' works (love for others) because belief in good works will lead to faith in the end, because faith is a product of good works, not the other way around.




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
This maybe the hardest of all the teachings to understand but I will see if I can help you understand saved by Grace, through faith. If you understand that Paul believed that Jesus was the Light in You, and can understand saved by Grace, then you will understand Paul.



Ephesians. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


Sacrificing something of yours to give to the poor, that is sacrificing self for brotherly love. Some people do this by nature others do not understand. The one who does not understand but gives to the poor does so out of faith, and he is rewarded for that faith with the warm feeling of Love, because he acted in faith. At some point if he keeps giving himself in faith he will be rewarded with understanding, the baptism of Light, Nirvana.

Grace means the only reason anyone finds the Light is because God Loves them. And if God Loves you, and he gave you access to the Light, why would you boast as if you didn't receive instruction from the Light. You understand God Loves you and fully what that Love means, only because he Loves you. And I know you are not one to boast, but rather you wish to inspire others to follow the path of Love and Peace.

If you claim the knowledge of Light came to you, then you claim to be saved by God's Love for you. You are saved by Grace and not by works, because you had faith in the Holy Spirit and the perfection that can be found within. And this is a gift from God. One must have faith in perfection before one can understand the works of the Holy Spirit.

The one's who don't accept the Light of Perfection believe they are bound to sin. They do not understand that they have freewill at all times. They do not believe they can become what they were born to become. They do not understand that God's Love is intended to bring them into the Light of Perfection, the adoption of Sons.

By your faith you believe in the perfection that lives within you, it is this faith that compels you to good works, it is the faith that keeps you walking in the Light. God Loves you, this is why he created the Light, so that we may find him.

If God did not Love you, or choose not to reveal himself to you, you would not understand Grace. But since you do understand God's Grace, his eternal Love for you, and his call to holiness that is found in the Light, then you have received his Grace. It was a free gift that you received for following, by faith, the words of the prophets.

You are not allowed to boast that God Loves you, because this implies that God doesn't Love others, which would make you no better than the one standing above his congregation. You are allowed to boast about the works that you do with your hands because you have faith.

And you are correct without works faith is dead. If you have no works, even if have the truth, your faith is dead, you are unable to enlighten your brother. It is your works that you accomplish through your faith that can enlighten your brother. To believe that humanity is more important than your daily struggles is faith, most say they believe but their actions prove that do not follow what they claim to believe. They have belief in but not faith to follow. Because they do not follow they cannot understand Grace. They have turned Grace into what you receive when you preform a ritual. As if God only loves those who have taken a bath.

To brag about God Loving you is to claim that one must work for God's Love. Grace is God's unconditional Love, but God does not talk to sinners, so they do not understand his Grace that leads to perfection.

I hope this helps you understand that Paul is not teaching that Grace comes through merely saying you believe in something. Grace comes because you had the faith to do something about your faith. We are instructed to be Lights that return an investment on the coin given, without works their has been no investment made. God was not pleased with the one who returned with only the one coin that they started with.

The bible is not corrupt, the interpretation is corrupt, because the church is corrupt. The church teaches that righteousness comes through ritual, and the self-righteous slander what they do not know. Everyone who has a coin has God's Grace, God Loves you even when you don't understand, even when you are still stuck in your sins. Proof that God's Grace is free, his son forgiving even those who hung him on the cross. These men did nothing to deserve Grace but yet they still received it.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

If we are not to boast then why does Paul do it in his letters?


2 Corinthians 11
16 I repeat: Let no one take me for a fool. But if you do, then tolerate me just as you would a fool, so that I may do a little boasting. 17 In this self-confident boasting I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool. 18 Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast. 19 You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! 20 In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face. 21 To my shame I admit that we were too weak for that!

Whatever anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about. 22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24 Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26 I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. 27 I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28 Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 In Damascus the governor under King Aretas had the city of the Damascenes guarded in order to arrest me. 33 But I was lowered in a basket from a window in the wall and slipped through his hands.


Paul boasts about his sufferings which were a direct result of the works he supposedly did. If he did not do good works (spread the gospel) he would not have been persecuted, so him boasting about his sufferings is a direct contradiction to the quote from Ephesians.



It was a free gift that you received for following, by faith, the words of the prophets.


But if there are no works then faith is dead, meaning grace is given through works and not faith. Grace may be achieved through faith but faith is achieved through good works and good works are achieved through love. Love is the determining factor because it comes before faith and is greater. Paul says we are justified by faith (in a sacrifice) alone. To follow faith is to put thoughts of love into action and do good works. Faith is the product of good works, not the other way around. You have it backwards.

What were the words of the prophets? To love one another. To follow the words of the prophets is to put love into action (good works), faith is the end result of those actions. Again, Paul turned it around and put faith above everything else. If we are justified by faith alone (as he says) then why is faith nothing without love (also as he says)? Because without love there are no good works and thus no faith gained. When is faith gained? When a good deed is witnessed, it is the product of good works.



You are allowed to boast about the works that you do with your hands because you have faith.


This contradicts the passage you quoted. If grace is a gift of God and not a product of works so that no one can boast then how can we boast about our good works? No one is to boast yet Paul boasts and you say it is ok to boast. This is in conflict with Ephesians.



The bible is not corrupt, the interpretation is corrupt, because the church is corrupt. The church teaches that righteousness comes through ritual, and the self-righteous slander what they do not know. Everyone who has a coin has God's Grace, God Loves you even when you don't understand, even when you are still stuck in your sins. Proof that God's Grace is free, his son forgiving even those who hung him on the cross. These men did nothing to deserve Grace but yet they still received it.


Paul is the one who is the foundation of the churches teachings, Paul's teachings are "supposedly" founded on Jesus. All lies are founded on truth, Paul's lies are founded on Jesus' truth and the church's lies are founded on top of Paul. Jesus is the true foundation, Paul and the church are what came after.


Matthew 21
42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?


Jesus is the stone the builders (Paul and Peter) rejected, yet they still claim he is the cornerstone of their church. How do you reject a stone yet still have it as a cornerstone? By changing its identity and teachings. This is exactly what Paul and the church (Peter) did.

Did those people forgive Jesus when they hung him on a cross and mocked him and tortured him? No, they didn't love nor do good works to him thus they couldn't have been saved by grace. Jesus says to forgive others is to receive forgiveness from God. Those who killed Jesus did not forgive him or treat him as a neighbor.
edit on 1/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Thoughts produce action, not the other way around. If your work is to produce faith, then you have already rested your faith in your ability to work. If you have faith in Christ, then your works will articulate that internal faith.

So it boils down to what you have faith in.

Clean the inside of the cup first, only then can you work on the outter surface.
edit on 12-1-2015 by BELIEVERpriest because: clarification



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So there is no such thing as dead faith? Because if faith always leads to good works then all Christians will be saved. Are all Christians saved? Because all Christians believe Jesus died for their sins.

Why does Paul say that faith without love is nothing? How do you know a person's faith is true? By the way they act and treat others.

Good works determines who has true faith meaning faith alone is not enough. Paul says otherwise.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Grace means - God loves you. It means nothing else. If you say Grace is anything other than God's Love than you have given the word more meaning than Paul. The Church may claim Grace means lot's of things, but they are wrong.

Paul is not bragging to brag. He is putting others in their place. By explaining his genealogy and his works that lead to persecution he is solidifying his claim to his faith.

The Jews were Zionist, they believed they were God's only chosen people. Peter is actually shocked to find out that Christ also came to save the Gentiles. Paul is merely telling the people that he is a Jew and believes that Christ is superior to the Law. He has to make these claims about his flesh, so that people would believe him. The audience 2000 years ago was much different than today's audience.

Today we might expect someone who claims to be a prophet to take a polygraph and to be seen by a group of psychology to check for sanity.

Saying I can pass a polygraph test for the following questions is boasting.

Are you a prophet? Yes

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit can lead you to perfection? Yes

Do you believe you are the one predicted to come by all the prophets? Yes

Did you pray for the gift of Tongues and Interpretation and believe you would receive them? Yes

Do you believe that Zoroastrianism, Egyptian theology, Hinduism, Plato, Buddha, Mosses and Mohammad all teach the same message as Christ and can be reconciled to one faith by understanding the metaphors, the laws and the rituals, without altering the texts? Yes

Do you believe that the messianic age will come as a result of your message? Yes

Do you believe that anyone can pray for the gift of interpretation and receive the same message you received? Yes

Do you believe you are sane? Yes

Are you the one who overcame the 7 churches in Revelation and will rule the kingdom with an iron scepter? Yes


You see I am bragging that I can pass a polygraph for all those questions and more. I am bragging that the greatest psychological minds on earth will declare that I am sane.

But Understand, I only believe I am who I am because the texts themselves claim that someone will come to bring the true Dharma to the world, one who can understand the prophets. The number 7 is used in most of the texts, and it depicts 7 religions and one Light who is Christ Jesus.

Each of the texts teaches divine psychology. Therefore each of the texts is divine. Even though the congregation no longer understands the Dharma, the Dharma is divine and therefore the books themselves are divine, even though their true meaning was lost. I am the one who understands and can interpret all of the texts.

Despite everything I claim. I do not believe that God Loves me more than he Loves his other children. I have works that show that I have faith, but I did nothing for Grace. Grace was mine before I even opened the bible. Before I had any knowledge I had Grace. Since I was chosen by this Grace, I humble myself as servant of Christ, one who cannot brag past what he has received, and the works that Grace has produced in me.

At some point a prophet has to make claims to his faith, and this will no doubt come across as a boast, even if the intent is merely to enlighten.
edit on 12-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

What determines whether you have God's grace (love) though?


John 15
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.


What were his commands? To love God and others as yourself. If you love someone you do good works toward them.

If faith is belief in Jesus then why did he say this:


John 10
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.


Isn't knowing and understanding that Jesus and the Father are in each other the same thing as believing in him?

To believe in his good works IS to believe in him and have faith in him. This means that believing (doing) good works is what leads to the faith that they didn't have previously.

I feel like I'm repeating myself way too often here.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So there is no such thing as dead faith? Because if faith always leads to good works then all Christians will be saved. Are all Christians saved? Because all Christians believe Jesus died for their sins.

Why does Paul say that faith without love is nothing? How do you know a person's faith is true? By the way they act and treat others.

Good works determines who has true faith meaning faith alone is not enough. Paul says otherwise.


I never said any of that. The ISIL members have faith in their works, and I would not call them good works. They believe that Allah will be impressed by their works. Their faith is dead. Faith in works is dead faith. This is why ALL religion focuses on what you do. Christ on the other hand did the work of salvation for us to satisfy His Father, therefore God is only interested in what we believe.

If we believe the truth, then it will be manifested in our works. What is the truth? That God sent His only begotten Son so that who ever believes in Him will have everlasting life.

Not all good works work together for good. Sometimes evil hides in "good works". Like the UN...they claim to be for world peace, yet they are nothing more than politicians signing death deals with mercenaries. I wonder what they have faith in?



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest



If we believe the truth, then it will be manifested in our works. What is the truth? That God sent His only begotten Son so that who ever believes in Him will have everlasting life.


So belief in Jesus' sacrifice always leads to good works? WBC believes in Jesus' sacrifice just as much as you do, that means they will be saved whether there works are good or not. Is protesting an army man's funeral an example of good works? If not then why didn't their faith manifest into it like you say it should?

I'll ask again, and please address it this time. If a Christian has total faith in Jesus' sacrifice but does not help those who are in need, is their faith enough to save them? You've ignored this question so far. Why is that?



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25
What determines whether you have God's grace (love) though?

John 15
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

What were his commands? To love God and others as yourself. If you love someone you do good works toward them.
If faith is belief in Jesus then why did he say this:

John 10
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.

Isn't knowing and understanding that Jesus and the Father are in each other the same thing as believing in him?
To believe in his good works IS to believe in him and have faith in him. This means that believing (doing) good works is what leads to the faith that they didn't have previously.
I feel like I'm repeating myself way too often here.


I understand the confusion, like I said this is probably the hardest thing to explain. Let me try to use human analogy.

If my daughter steals from me, she still has my Grace because I do not stop loving her, but at the same time I will punish her so that during her punishment she will not know my Love. The one who remains in sin, remains in fear of punishment, rituals do not cleanse you of this fear. Christians who remain in sin remain in fear, because fear of God is part of the punishment. Those who overcome sin overcome fear, and when they overcome sin they receive a blessing from the Light for having faith that God does indeed wish for them to become Holy, Blameless and Perfect Like his Son Christ Jesus.

We were created by Christ Jesus according to the pattern he was given by his father. Our destiny is the adoption of son ship, Christ sitting us with his father on the thrown, Nirvana.

So you see my Love for my daughter is the Grace that God has for us. The sinner does not receive this Grace, Nirvana, because one who is bound to sin is not forgiven. How can you forgive someone until they repent from sin? How can they repent from sin when they don't believe they can overcome it.


John 8:24 That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I Am who I claim to be (The Perfect Holy Spirit with you), you will die in your sins."


Although God's Grace is great enough to cover all sin so that he may Love all that he had his son create, some who claim they know God's Grace have never know Nirvana. Nirvana is the place you find the truth about Grace. The knowledge you find is known only to you, and one cannot obtain this knowledge without keeping the fathers command to overcome sin.

Grace is a gift that was given to you before you did works, because the Love of God is what drove you to faith. I have already claimed that a man who finds Nirvana and then turns away looses this Grace and returns to a state of fear of punishment. To live in Grace is to obey his commands. But the gift of Grace is a gift that was given 2000 years ago on the cross, so that none should boast. Boasting about Grace must come at the cost of condemning others. Boasting about works is allowed because what you have done can be seen.
edit on 12-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25


Grace means - God loves you.



I will have to disagree with that...

the actual meaning of grace is "the way one carries themselves or deals with situations"

Jesus was "full of grace" because he dealt with everyone with great ease... never stumbling, never in error... always compassionate, empathetic and kind...

Pauls Meaning is a substitution of the word "Power"... not love...




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Faith in Christ is the start. Learning to love others as yourself and doing the good works will follow naturally IF the believer makes a habit of confessing his/her own sins to the Father privately (no priest needed), on an as needed basis. Then the believer will have to begin learing the mind of Christ by learning the Word of God. To live is Christ to die is gain. If the believe does not do this, then they will lead a life of misery until their accumilated sins prompt God to kill them, but yes, they still go to heaven if their faith is true.

The problem is, that you cant really know what is in a persons heart. Just because they confess the faith, doesnt make it true.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So know them by their fruits means nothing...

Faith without works is dead means nothing either?

Why do you defend those that prove themselves to be false?




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

The reason there is confusion is because you are trying to reconcile Paul with Jesus. That is impossible when you look at his work as a whole, hence the confusion.



So in this Grace is a gift that was given to you before you did works, because the Love of God is what drove you to faith.


Again, you are contradicting Jesus. The only way to remain in he and his Father's love is to keep his commandments on love. To keep his commandments is to treat others as you want to be treated, a.k.a. good works. So love (then good works) is the determining factor, not faith, because without love (and good works) faith does not exist.

If grace is God's love and remaining in his love means to love and do good works to your neighbor then grace isn't given until those things are done.

Love > Good Works > Faith > Grace

This means love is the prerequisite to good works which are the prerequisites to faith which is a prerequisite to grace. Without love there is nothing, including grace.

Also, you said earlier that Paul didn't mean saying something meant grace. Paul's own words betray you here.


Romans 10
9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


Apparently an admission of faith despite not having works leads to salvation.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest



If we believe the truth, then it will be manifested in our works. What is the truth? That God sent His only begotten Son so that who ever believes in Him will have everlasting life.


So belief in Jesus' sacrifice always leads to good works? WBC believes in Jesus' sacrifice just as much as you do, that means they will be saved whether there works are good or not. Is protesting an army man's funeral an example of good works? If not then why didn't their faith manifest into it like you say it should?

I'll ask again, and please address it this time. If a Christian has total faith in Jesus' sacrifice but does not help those who are in need, is their faith enough to save them? You've ignored this question so far. Why is that?


Let me answer this with the scriptures.


1 Corinthians 3 10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, THE BUILDER WILL SUFFER LOSS BUT YET WILL BE SAVED - even though only as one escaping through the flames.


This is a reminder that God's Grace is greater than man's sin. Why should we not go on sinning then?


Hebrew 10 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 IT IS A DREADFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.


You can see that although Grace can cover all sins the one who is fallen into sin, falls into a dreadful situation and what he has built will be burned in the flames. The one who obeys the commandment has no fear of the flames, because they have no reason to fear punishment. They live in Grace, through their faith.


edit on 12-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: Akragon


Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits


Jesus is talking about recognizing false prophets here. He isnt talking about their works, but of what they teach. For example, a person who comes in Jesus name but teaches salvation by works is a wolf in sheeps clothing. He does the good works, makes all the right motions, but the fruit of his message are bitter grapes. They teach contrary to what Jesus taught.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:30 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon


Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits


Jesus is talking about recognizing false prophets here. He isnt talking about their works, but of what they teach. For example, a person who comes in Jesus name but teaches salvation by works is a wolf in sheeps clothing. He does the good works, makes all the right motions, but the fruit of his message are bitter grapes. They teach contrary to what Jesus taught.


Teaching is a work... you are wrong

You are just twisting the words of Jesus to suit your argument on this topic... He is not talking about teachers...

Works are required for salvation according to his words... Or else everything he taught in his ministry was a waste of time... He taught Faith plus works...

Not Faith alone... that is pauls words




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Because saying "Lord Lord" is more important than treating others with love, right?


Luke 6
46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?


If faith is believing Jesus is the Lord and died for your sins then why does Jesus tell us to "do" what he says? And why does James say that faith (calling Jesus Lord) without works is dead?

And why does Paul say this:


Romans 10
9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


When Jesus implied saying he is Lord is not enough?

Why does Jesus tell us this:


John 14
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


If his commandments were to love others and Gods and to "treat" others like you would want to be treated, then good works are greater than faith.

Again, what did Paul mean by saying love is greater than faith? You continue to ignore this.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What you are asking is a question that is not really meant to be asked. You are asking who does God Love and who does God stand against.

You must realize the longer you ask yourself this question the more likely you are to find an answer that you agree with. Once you find the answer you agree with, then you will create another religion, even if the religion is only yours. You will rewrite the laws based on what you think a man needs to do to find God's Love.

One might may say consensual premarital sex is ok and God still Loves you. The other might say that God does not Love those who practice premarital sex. This is man trying to decide who is following the Light.

The simpler truth is this, each of us is born with enough knowledge to find the Light. This is what Buddha calls equanimity. The Laws are written on our hearts and minds, and the Light is within us to guide us. We don't need to concern ourselves with who receives God's Grace. The one who finds Nirvana has found God's Grace and been shown the straight path to remain in God's Grace.

People tend to brag about Enlightenment, which is really just a word. If I teach my daughter the Light from birth she will be enlightened because God caused me to teach her the Light. So for my daughter the only path she knows is the enlightened path. I have taught her that not everyone believes what she does to help her understand the world she lives in.

Grace is Enlightenment from God, something to share as a humble servant, but not something to hold over your brothers who are still stuck in their sin. They are on their path with God. Who can tell God what is forgivable or when someone might turn from sin and enter the Light, except God himself?



10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”] 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”


The name of the Lord is both Jesus and Christ. Christ was promised to take away the sins. If they don't believe in the one who can take away their sins and set them on a path to perfection then they have not believed in his name. His name is not just a name, the meaning of his name has been explained in much detail. You must believe in the name and the meaning behind it.

If you don't understand the meaning behind his name how can you be sure you are calling on him? The bible says false Christ's will rise up. If you don't understand the perfection found in his name then it remains possible that you are calling on a false Christ, who has disguised himself with the same name. The Christ of the church that teaches men that they are failures is teaching a false Christ. How can the perfect Christ, who takes away all sin, hear you when you are calling on the one who leaves you bond to your sin.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

Christ means "anointed one"...

it is not a name... It is a title...

Just as God is not a name, but a title


edit on 12-1-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



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