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Works are the bridge between love and faith.

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posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

You say that the church has corrupted the interpretation of what Jesus and Paul said yet you agree that Jesus had to die for our sins and that good works are impossible without faith. Seems like you agree with them more than you may realize. Those two teachings are the main trappings the church has put over people, and you agree with them.

Seems to me like you're in the same kind of boat as Christians, just a slightly different color.




posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25

No, atheists do not have more faith in Jesus than Christians, the idea is preposterous. If faith is believing Jesus died for our sins and atheists don't believe that but Christians do, who has more faith in that sacrifice? Those who believe in it or those who don't?

Your argument is becoming more and more irrational.


Who is Jesus Christ. He also goes by the name Horus. He also is the Light. He is also the Lion. He is also the Holy Spirit. He is also is the good conscious that guides us towards peace and Love.

If a man believes that Jesus Christ died to justify his sins, which is what ritual sacrifice teaches, then the believer is further away from the truth than the one who never heard the message. It matters very little if you believe a man died for your sins but that you are still trapped in a life of failure.

The only ones who are helped by Jesus Christ are the one's who believe they are forgiven and take that forgiveness and spread it through works to the world. You must believe that Jesus Christ is who he claims, the one who can take away your sins, these are the ones who follow the light. Not everyone needs to believe that Christ died for them in order to follow the Light. Many of the eastern religions produce enlightened men.

I needed Christ to die for me. I could not understand the message without first understanding the sacrifice. But it is clear that Abraham, Moses, Buddha and Plato needed only to understand self-sacrifice, since Christ had not died yet but all of these men found the Light within.


13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.


The teachers were teaching the same form of ritual sacrifice that leads to salvation then as they are now. Only the rituals are different.

People going to church are looking to overcome sin in their lives. When the teachers at the church teach that you will always be imperfect and that God is only pleased by rituals, the congregation becomes enslaved to sin and rituals.

If you don't believe the truth than you don't believe in the one who sacrificed himself, since you do not know him. How can the church believe in the Perfect one that they do not know?

The atheist knows we have morals and a conscious, he does not believe he will always be a failure, and he follows his moral code and conscious. In this scenario the Atheist lives closer to the light than the congregation.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

You don't belong to any church right?

What you just said was enough to be branded a heretic and excommunicated...

you're not winning any Christian friends here with that post brother...

Though... that made more sense then what most Christians around here manage to post


edit on 12-1-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25

You say that the church has corrupted the interpretation of what Jesus and Paul said yet you agree that Jesus had to die for our sins and that good works are impossible without faith. Seems like you agree with them more than you may realize. Those two teachings are the main trappings the church has put over people, and you agree with them.

Seems to me like you're in the same kind of boat as Christians, just a slightly different color.


Even if I only differ on this one point, it is this one point that keeps the church in darkness.The church claims that you need Christ to die to be forgiven and that you are bound to be a sinner all the days of your life.

I claim that Christ died for you to teach you the narrow path to overcoming sin, which is self sacrifice.

The light can only be found by the one's who believe in perfection. The church eliminates the Light from your heart by telling you the church is the only one who understands.

If you cannot see the incredible difference between being bound to sin and being free from sin, I am sorry but that is about all I have.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

Atheists believe none of that, they have no faith in anything, whether it be Jesus, Horus, Yahweh, Ra, Zeus, Baal, Jupiter, light, sacrifice, afterlife, sin, original sin, or ANYTHING. An atheist is someone who has faith in nothing by definition. To say they have more faith in Jesus or his sacrifice than a Christian who actually does believe in those things is a completely irrational argument at its core.

You're standing in quicksand here. Atheists do not have faith in anything. If faith is believing and atheists do not believe in anything then they do not have faith.... in anything. Simple as that. How can you have faith if you reject it and don't acknowledge it in any way?

Atheists have no faith of any kind yet they are still able to do good works. What do their good works stem from if not faith, which you say is what leads to good works?
edit on 1/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: sacgamer25

You don't belong to any church right?

What you just said was enough to be branded a heretic and excommunicated...

you're not winning any Christian friends here with that post brother...

Though... that made more sense then what most Christians around here manage to post



I belong to Christ, I have no reason to claim to follow a man who believes he is superior to me. I have been to many churches and I have yet to find anyone who could teach me more than what I could learn from reading. Even Paul asked why does anyone claim to follow anyone other than Christ.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

I respect where you're coming from brother, I don't quite understand it because I see contradictions, but I still respect your beliefs. I believe you are a seeker, but you still have a ways to go in my opinion, as do I.
edit on 1/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25

Atheists believe none of that, they have no faith in anything, whether it be Jesus, Horus, Yahweh, Ra, Zeus, Baal, Jupiter, light, sacrifice, afterlife, sin, original sin, or ANYTHING. An atheist is someone who has faith in nothing by definition. To say they have more faith in Jesus or his sacrifice than a Christian who actually does believe in those things is a completely irrational argument at its core.

You're standing in quicksand here. Atheists do not have faith in anything. If faith is believing and atheists do not believe in anything then they do not have faith.... in anything. Simple as that.

Atheists have no faith of any kind yet they are still able to do good works. What do their good works stem from if not faith, which you say is what leads to good works?


I know quite a few atheist and they all have faith in themselves, or they sit around depressed like the religious.

Why does an atheist help others? Did he just stumble into it or did he have faith that helping others is the right thing to do? You may not call helping others because you believe it to be right faith, but I have used the word correctly. The word faith does not solely belong to belief in a deity.

Their is no way to know that giving a homeless man money will help him. But many atheist give money to the homeless out of faith that they are helping the one they gave money too. They may not believe they are inspired by God to help others, but their hearts taught them that helping others was good so they acted on the faith that they have in themselves.

I have not used the word faith incorrectly. Many atheist have faith that the world can become a better place if we spread more love and less hate. Their is no proof that love will bring peace so the atheist who seek peace through Love can only be acting of faith.

Their are also atheist who believe that Christ teaches a moral code worth following, even though they reject his divinity. They believe in this moral code because they have faith in what is within them, only they don't except that what is within them is divine.
edit on 12-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

Paul was specifically talking about Jesus' resurrection and divinity. "Those who declare with their mouth Jesus is Lord and believe he rose from the dead will be saved".

Atheists believe in neither Jesus being Lord nor his resurrection. If faith in anything (not just Jesus and his resurrection) is good enough to be saved then why didn't Paul say that instead of singling out Jesus and his resurrection?

Your theology is in direct conflict with what Paul taught because he doesn't say or even hint toward some of the things you are saying.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25

Paul was specifically talking about Jesus' resurrection and divinity. "Those who declare with their mouth Jesus is Lord and believe he rose from the dead will be saved".


This is a true statement.

Atheist who follow their conscious and do not harm others have also been saved from his sins. He has believed in the word of God written on his heart and mind without need for scripture to prove that doing good is good. I provided you the scripture that says this.

Both of these statements are true. If you believe in Jesus, the one who died on the cross, not the invention of the church, you will be saved from your sins. If you believe that doing no harm to others is the correct way to live then you will not sin against your brother. Salvation is overcoming sin and an atheist can overcome sin.

Not everything has to be one way. Jesus is the way to God, but the words on your heart and in your mind are his words.

So you can follow Christ without ever knowingly following Christ. The only difference for believer and non believer is Nirvana. Both can overcome sin but only one will have a divine experience. You cannot experience a divine connection if you do not believe in one.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 08:05 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25

Faith is the end result of love. If you love someone you do good works toward them and thus faith is gained from those good works.
Love > Good Works > Faith
……………….
An atheist is someone who has faith in nothing by definition. To say they have more faith in Jesus or his sacrifice than a Christian who actually does believe in those things is a completely irrational argument at its core.
……………..
You're standing in quicksand here. Atheists do not have faith in anything. If faith is believing and atheists do not believe in anything then they do not have faith.... in anything.



I am positive there are multiple millions of atheist that would disagree with your quicksand theology.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Romans 10:9 is mistranslated. You confess with your mouth as a result of your faith. It should be pretty obvious, whatever you do is first determined by the internal choice that you make.

Those who say "Lord, lord", yet are not saved are those who claimed that Jesus was their lord and instructor, yet did not have faith. They are the ones who insist that you can do good works without backing it up with faith in Jesus' sacrifice.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: sacgamer25

........

That is not true. The OT claims that Christ will come, die, be resurrected. Then it claims that ANOTHER will come in the name of Christ to teach the world. Yahweh and Jesus are both called Lord and their is only one Lord.

……………………………….
Yahweh is Jesus so who is Yahweh's Messiah. We know the father appointed Christ King but who is the Messiah that is sent by Yahweh(Jesus Christ).The message to the 7 churches also claims that Christ will give the kingdom over to ANOTHER.

---------
Plato makes the same prediction, Christ will come and the ONE after him will be the ONE who enlightens all men.
………………….

Jesus said the ONE who would come would do greater things than he did. I will reconcile all religions and in doing so I will show clearly that the Light is within. When the world accepts the interpretations the mountain will throw itself into the sea.

Christ who is the Light is the mountain and the congregation who is the sea will follow the Light. Religion will be in the hands of those who follow the light, needing no one but the Light to guide them.

3 different prophecies from 3 different writers, One message, One Spirit, One Light.
———————————

Now they are reconciled, are their any more questions that you have about Paul's teaching? I can answer all of your questions leaving no contradictions.



Just so you know who you arguing with. Sacgamer claims to be the “another and one and I ” he spoke of above.It’s in the link below

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 12-1-2015 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

A prophet proclaims or professes a message based on alleged divine inspiration. That is what Jesus was refering to. Stop being difficult and read what Jesus said. He was talking about false prophets. So, while Jesus was still on the subject of false prophets, He said that you will recognize them by their fruits. What are their fruits? Its whatever message they are trying to communicate.

That passage has nothing to do with the average person's works.

This is basic reading comprehension.

How can you sit there and tell me that works can mean anything without faith? That is totally backwards. You said it yourself, "works come from the heart." If you have no faith in your heart, then your work is dead. By doing that, you are claiming Jesus as your Lord, but rejecting the faith.

Why do you go out of your way to twist the truth?....you wolf in sheep's clothing. The passage you quote belongs to you.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 08:54 PM
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a reply to: Rex282
I have actually made that claim many times on ATS and recently elsewhere.

And honestly their are only 2 possibilities. All the texts can be reconciled, they all teach the same divine psychology.

This leaves us with only 2 possibilities as to who or what I am.
Here are the religions that I can reconcile, and the names of the priests who are identified in the bible.

1. Noah – Egypt and the religion from the tower of Babel (Great Pyramid). Horus is Christ.
2. Melchizedek – Zoroastrianism
3. Abraham – Vedas
4. Moses – OT Claims false Jews will corrupt the truth (Interpretation)
5. Buddha – Names and metaphors tie Buddha to the Vedas and the OT. Buddha said the true Dharma(Interpretation) would be lost and one would come to teach the true Dharma(Interpretation)
6. Plato – The character Socrates claims divine knowledge from a book. He correctly predicts the Christ (Allegory of the Cave), and the one to come Odysseus.
7. Mohammad – Islam which is the scroll predicted in revelation that would prophecy again. The Koran says we are waiting for interpretation.
8. Christ NT - Revelation claims the current interpretation is maddening wine.

I am either the prophet and all of these religions were founded by God or I am a genius and all of these men created a puzzle that they believed that someone would put together.

The writers of the texts claimed that one would come who could reconcile the world to the true message of God by interpreting the texts. I can do this. So either I am a prophet as were all of these men. Or I am a genius who believes in the same divine psychology that these men believed in and none of the stories are anything more than parables written by those who believe in the Light.

There are only 2 possibilities because I can do what I say I can do. I have no reason to lie. The only claim that I make from a logic standpoint is that I can understand the religious metaphors found in all the texts. I prayed for the gift of interpretation and I did receive it, but it really amounts to metaphors.

Sometimes when I read the texts I find it hard to believe that no one has figured out the metaphors before me. This is why I believe the interpretations are divine and that I am not just some genius who decoded a very old code.

edit on 12-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Correct... works come from the heart...

Don't blame me because you don't understand the connection between the two

Faith is not needed for works... its as simple as that...

a good tree will bring forth good fruit... Yes false prophet's will bring forth bad fruit, but bad fruit is also those that slander and lie about other people like youself...

Matthew 7:26
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

And what are those sayings that he taught?

Giving to those in need... among many other thing that are considered WORKS which I can only assume you would not understand because of the hardness and hatred in your heart.... read Luke 6

SO...

DO me a personal favor... Stop replying to me all together...

Pretty much every time I hear from you It makes me physically ill...

You Lie about me, you insult me... slander me... and I've had enough of you all together

So stick to your Paulian beliefs and bugger off please...

K thanks bye
edit on 12-1-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Is faith anything without works?

Jesus said that if you don't believe in him (have faith), then at least believe in the good works he performed so that you can come to understand who he is. Works are what show you have faith, faith does not show you have works, which is why James said faith without works is dead.
edit on 1/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:11 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yet they still have faith in his sacrifice and that he rose from the dead. So without works, faith in his sacrifice mean nothing.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:21 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yet they still have faith in his sacrifice and that he rose from the dead. So without works, faith in his sacrifice mean nothing.


The contradiction is this

God's unconditional Love has a condition. You don't get to feel it until you work for it. It was always there because it is unconditional but it was unknown because knowing has a condition.

If that is still confusing than it will just be confusing. Thank you for making me think so hard about this. Like I said this is one of the hardest concepts to understand in all the religious texts.



posted on Jan, 12 2015 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

I havent lied or slandered you. I simply pointed out how Jesus defined people like you...maybe thats why you feel sick. How many people have you caused to stumble with your lies? You are a false prophet of your own kind. You remove the gospels from the context of the OT so that you can propfane the words of Jesus. Then you reject the words of the Apostle, the very men who Jesus charged to communicate His message to the world so that you can justify your false authority.

My works are backed by my faith in the Son. You seek to divorce faith from works for your own glory.

When the day comes, I hope you have finally figured it out, lest you be one of the many begging on their knees, calling "Lord, Lord", when all you had to do was have a little faith. I never said work was evil, but you make faith out to be evil. All God ever wanted was for us to stop kicking and screaming, and have faith.

I will reply as I see fit.




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