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Works are the bridge between love and faith.

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posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

Because everyone has the ability to help and love others regardless of faith or belief. Atheists are just as capable of doing good works as a believer.




posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 11:04 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25

So God condemned millions of people to believing lies and torture and abuse and death? Why? That's a very cruel thing to do to his children whom he claims he loves.

If god commanded us to not kill then why does he command those in the OT to kill? He forced his people to break his commandment.

If god is merciful then why did he show no mercy to his enemies in the OT?

What is the purpose of letting the Babylonians have power? What's the end game? Why does he reward the evil but punish the good by giving them power?

You are sounding a lot like a fundamentalist Christian right now.


The Babylonians are in Power, this cannot be disputed. Would you rather believe in a God who predicted this and claimed to be with us, or one who didn't say anything and still wanted us to believe that he is within us. Many have lost faith because of the world we live in. I can't stand most of what goes on in the world but I am not God, this was not my plan.

In the OT the Israelites only killed 2 types of people through war. Those who attacked them first and those whom were worshiping demons and sacrificing their children to Moloch, on the other side of the Jordan. If they were worshiping demons and sacrificing children how is God unjust for putting them to death for believing that God was ok with that.

The Levital Code was a prophecy about the Christ who was to be anointed High Priest over the whole world. He fulfilled the Law perfectly so that he could proclaim himself High Priest. God's Law is sin is punishable by death, by that Law Christ could have never died, he would have reigned in his earthly tent forever or he would have been taken away like Elijah.

Instead he let the Zionist take his life so that he could taste death. Because he tasted death for us he has paved a way for us to give up our spirits at the time of death. This message is confirmed by Steven who gives up his Spirit and escapes tasting death. It is confirmed in the "Tibetan Book of the Dead". Which is an ancient psychology book that teaches one how to overcome fears, especially fear of death and the release of your spirit back to God. It is not about the afterlife, it is about your current life and the release of your current fears.



posted on Jan, 13 2015 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: sacgamer25

I think you have that backward brother...

He who forgives much is forgiven much, and is loved much... because he loves



I have forgiven myself much so I have been forgiven much, and I have always had an easy time forgiving others.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 08:55 AM
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a reply to: sacgamer25


1 Samuel 15
3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"


Yes, god was punishing those who did wrong here. We all know that the children and infants were the ones sacrificing themselves to idols, we all know their animals were evil at heart and believed in false gods. That's why THEY had to be killed, because THEY were doing those things, not the ones who would eventually teach them to do those things.

Yes, spare no one, not even the innocent children and animals. They deserved to die just as much as the ones who were actually performing those evil acts, all because they were born into it and didn't know any different. Doesn't matter if they would eventually grow up to be good people or not, they were a part of the culture so they had to die.

Is that about right?



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Because everyone has the ability to help and love others regardless of faith or belief. Atheists are just as capable of doing good works as a believer.



originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Faith is the end result of love. If you love someone you do good works toward them and thus faith is gained from those good works.

Love > Good Works > Faith


Not according to your logic.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: Rex282

How so? If an atheist has love for his neighbor then they treat them well. Faith it's the end result of that work even if they don't realize it.

What determines whether you have faith in your partner? If they treat you how you want to be treated, a.k.a. they do not cheat on you. If they cheat on you (don't perform good works) you lose your faith in them.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes. Here is the flaw in your logic. It did happen, so it was either directed by God or allowed by God.

Do you think man could imagine anything past what God created? If men worship demons, who gave them the freewill to do so? Who allowed the mind to imagine itself in a Holy War with God?

Either God created the entire matrix and has subjected creation to darkness or he created the matrix and allowed people to imagine that power comes from human sacrifice.

Either way he had to create the path, because if God did not create the path, it would not exist. Man does not create the path of light or dark, we only have the freewill to choose. The paths were created before the foundation of the earth.

We know that Christ promised heaven to anyone who repents. According to Jewish law the age of 13 is old enough to become accountable to God's law.

If man came from the light, and that light choose to bring those children who were subjected to unspeakable darkness back to him rather than rehabilitate them, why judge the one who created the path? Did he not also create the path you are on?

If thier is no afterlife then all the religious text lie anyway. If their is an afterlife that is divine than the physical death of one who is found innocent actually frees them from the bondage to the pain and suffering of the physical world.

The ultimate question is this. Are the children more curesed in life than they are in death? And if physical life is a curse, subjected to death, then the release of the physical frees you from the curse.

These children were cursed by what they had been subjected to and they were freed from the curse through death.

Freedom from the flesh through death is the message of self-sacrifice, the message of the cross.

Free yourself from the curse of life by sacrificing yourself for humanity.

I don't agree with the darkness of the paths that have been created by my father. I don't think that demon worship, human sacrifice, war and rape are necessary but yet they exist. So the path of depravity must have been laid out since before the creation.


Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.


I see the darkness and I don't believe in Holy Wars against my father as being anything but man's insanity.

I appreciate that the God that created these paths actually admits to it, and also predicted what we would see in advance.

Evil is real, it is a path created by God. I will not question how he decides to deal with those who took the evil path, that he created.

edit on 14-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

Consider the possibility that HE created all of creation, but left others in charge of it...

Both Jesus and Paul confirm that there is a "ruler of this world"

And Jesus is not him...

Perhaps you might think on that...




posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

Well if you believe that was God's work then I assume you believe the work of radical Islamists and ISIS are God's also? Because they spare no one who isn't a believer in their god just as god told the Israelites to do with the Amalekites.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

With your current view ISIS is justified in their actions because they say God tells them to do it just like the Israelites said. It doesn't matter how barbaric the actions are or how much the victims suffer, the attackers were commanded by god and god is good so they are justified in your eyes.

Or are the Israelites more worthy of being justified just because their actions were written down over 2,000 years ago and were preserved by those in power? What differentiates the two exactly?



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 09:37 PM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: sacgamer25

Consider the possibility that HE created all of creation, but left others in charge of it...

Both Jesus and Paul confirm that there is a "ruler of this world"

And Jesus is not him...

Perhaps you might think on that...



And thier is the Light inside of you. The one who is within is greater than the one who is in the world.

Either God created Satan or Satan is God's adversary and Armageddon is a litteral Holy war.

If you believe that God created Satan, then his path was laid out before he was created. If you believe Satan is God's adversary than you must also believe in demonolgy.


edit on 14-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

Is ISIS doing those people a favor by beheading and torturing them? If the Israelites did the Amalekites a favor then so did ISIS.

I'm really curious as to what your thoughts are on this.



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 10:11 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: sacgamer25

Is ISIS doing those people a favor by beheading and torturing them? If the Israelites did the Amalekites a favor then so did ISIS.

I'm really curious as to what your thoughts are on this.


Isreal was instructed to defeat the armies that came against them and those who worshiped demons and practiced human sacrifice.

What if after the children witnessed these atrocities thier was no psychology at the time that could have saved these children from insanity.

Is it better to be insane or to return to the Light?

ISIS is not killing others who practice human sacrifice. ISIS is not currently fighting against anyone who is trying to take away thier lands.

They claim to follow the Koran. Jihad is only allowed to defend your home and the homes of your Muslim brothers.

The Koran also says that Muslims are always to accept peace from anyone who asks for peace. The Koran specifically forbids forced conversion.

So no ISIS cannot be from God because they claim to follow Mohammed, yet they do not.

If an ISIS leader stood up and called himself a prophet than I would imagine he would have some way to prove his divinity.

I claim to be a prophet only because the books themselves say that the prophet is the one who can interpret and reconcile the 3 texts. I can do that, so the sign of my divinity is the interpretations.

Their is no one in ISIS claiming to be following anything other than the Koran. It is impossible to act against Mohammed and claim to be acting on God's behalf.

Just like the Catholic Inquisition. It is impossible to both follow your prophet and act in opposition to his message.

I would believe Charlie Manson before I believed ISIS. At least Charlie actually believed he was a prophet who had God's authority to decide who lives or dies.

Seems like Charlie Manson and the Popes who lead the inquisition have much in common. They both suffered from the same delusion. ISIS also appears to be suffering from this illness.
edit on 14-1-2015 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: sacgamer25

God told the Israelites thou shalt not kill, yet he then orders them to kill, does that mean they are not following god's commands because of his first command? How do you know Muhammad didn't tell them to do one thing before then tell them to kill now? That situation is no different than with the Israelites, their god told them not to kill yet he ordered them to kill after that anyways and they followed his orders. When they killed the Amalekites their actions were not written down yet, just as ISIS' actions aren't a part of the Koran right now. How do you know this isn't the next step in God's plan waiting to be written down?



posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

In all the texts this is the only contradiction that confounds me. I don't know why the perfect law though shall not murder is ever set aside.

I have searched the texts for some kind of scriptural justification but I find none.

All I can say is death cures insanity, and man has a right to defend himself. To God killing the insane may have been freedom from insanity.

I accept this apparent contradiction, because I can accept that killing those guilty of murder is more like the death penalty than war.

If thier were American Citizens practicing child sacrifice, we would still issue the death penalty today. I'm sure we would not issue the death penalty to the children who watched, but whose to say these children's insanity could be cured?



posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 01:49 AM
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a reply to: sacgamer25


Either God created Satan or Satan is God's adversary and Armageddon is a litteral Holy war.

If you believe that God created Satan, then his path was laid out before he was created. If you believe Satan is God's adversary than you must also believe in demonolgy.


Or... Satan doesn't exist, and never has...

Satan is a metaphor... a symbol that represents the material

The very idea of angels rebelling against God goes against everything you've been saying... I find it ridiculous myself...

IF said rebellious angel does exist... He's likely just doing his job...

Though I think satan is yet another fear mechanism, like Hell...

Methods to win converts by means of fear...Tis the favorite way of the church, and always has been




posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 01:53 AM
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a reply to: sacgamer25


In all the texts this is the only contradiction that confounds me. I don't know why the perfect law though shall not murder is ever set aside.

I have searched the texts for some kind of scriptural justification but I find none.


Apparently you haven't been arguing with Christians long enough...

You see... according to Christians there is a difference between Murdering someone, and killing them...

Thou shalt not kill actually is properly translated as "thou shall not murder"... Killing is ok though




posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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It confounds you because there is no making sense of it, it is a sign of corruption. God does not change right? So why does he say one thing (don't kill) then change and tell his people to kill? Because the killing was the work of man disguised as the order of God, JUST LIKE with what we see today with ISIS, killings being done in the name of God that aren't from God. The ONLY difference is that what the Israelites did was written down and preserved. That has absolutely no bearing on its validity though.

You say you have the gift of interpretation yet all I see is you accepting everything without question. That is not interpretation, it is blind faith.



posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

I wouldn't say Satan is the material rather he is the lust for material gain. If you love the material you do not harm it or take advantage of it, but if you lust after it then you take advantage of it and thus hurt it. We see this today wth fracking and deforestation, this is because we lust the material world and the profit we can make from it instead of loving it in my opinion.

You will not find love in the civilized world for the most part, we have destroyed nature and built the unnatural. Love is found in the parts of the world man has yet to touch and destroy, we have taken advantage of the material not the other way around.

We should not hate our home, it is here to nourish us and build us spiritually. Without the perfection we see in the makeup of the material world around us, we could not see the perfection that is within us. It is here to help not hurt.
edit on 1/15/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




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