Flight MH17 - Searching for the Truth

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

There were trainers to teach them to use the BUK, and possibly defectors to help teach them. If there were experienced operators using the BUK, then this probably never would have happened in the first place. They would have been able to see the clues that it wasn't a Ukrainian transport.

I don't think they would actually. The separatists have captured very few aircraft, and the ones they have captured, they've stayed away from using very much.

a reply to: Zaphod58

But that`s just your speculation with no proof to back it up.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I never said otherwise. But if they had pilots, and planes, they would have used them by now. Not just once, but many times, and potentially altered events in the area.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Russians used them close to the Russian border probably, if you look where the Ukrainian Su-25s went down and the AN-26, the change is big it with the Russian who held drills so close by at that time.

Right around that time there were Ukrainians being trapped in a big pocket right at the Russian border (something which they don`t show on the maps when it`s about MH17 in MSM).

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Which makes sense, if there's a battle raging right next to your border. I'd have planes and ground forces nearby too in case it spilled over the border.

a reply to: Zaphod58

But reading what was going on, Russia was involved back then and so jet fighters of them probably too.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And besides a politician, there's not a shred of proof other than you saying that. There were NATO AWACS in the area, they didn't see anything. ATC radar didn't see anything, air defense radars didn't see anything. Not one sighting of a Russian fighter or attack aircraft over Ukrainian territory.

a reply to: Zaphod58

There are way more indications to that claim...

1) We have the president himself saying in a letter to the victim its family on 6 December about the AN-26 being downed by AAM

Google Translate

2) We have the Ukrainians claiming two Su-25 were being downed by R-27 missiles the 16th July

Source

3) We have a claim of a Ukrainian Mig-29 being brought down by AAM

One of the MiG-29s was shot down on Ukraine’s eastern border by an air-to-air missile fired from Russian airspace by one of that country’s MiG-29s.

Source

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And no one actually saw any of that happen. Either electronically, or visually, despite their being multiple ELINT/SIGINT platforms in the area monitoring the region, a large NATO presence for an exercise... Now you would think that one of those platforms would have picked something up, and they would have shouted it from the rooftops because it would be proof that Russia was invading.

Carlos the Ukrainian air traffic controller confirmed !

MH-17 Radar Eyewitness SpainBuca CONFIRMED


Link doesn`t work, but you can check it out for yourself by leaving out the space between h and t, and put it in...

Internet Archive Waybackmachine

h ttps://twitter.com/spainbuca

Here`s the transcript of him telling what happened :

Link

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Except for the really minor detail that a Spanish citizen can't be an air traffic controller in the Ukraine. You have to be a Ukrainian citizen to be trained as an ATC operator according to their own regulations. Not to mention details of his story don't add up. There was no course change from the time the flight departed. It was a straight line course to the Donetsk region where it was shot down.

There's also this:

Full reply from Spanish embassy to The Spain Report via e-mail on the existence of "Carlos, @spainbuca, the Spanish air traffic controller" in Ukraine:

"This is not the first time we have been asked about him. This "Carlos" was also active during the Maidán revolution in Ukraine.

We have no knowledge of "Carlos" having been in Ukraine. There is no record of his passing through the Consulate, and no one from the (relatively small) Spanish colony knows him.
The airport where he supposedly worked for several years told us at the time that all of their air traffic controllers are Ukranian, and that in any case they have never employed any Spaniard for that or any other task.

Furthermore, the last information he was posting before the airline tragedy was of the same sort. He was saying, for example, that he lived in Kiev and had been threatened by radical extreme-right elements. No Spaniard or national of another country—to my knowledge—has ever been threatened in this country."

pressimus.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

Except the archive does indeed show on 16 Mrt. a pic of the Ukrainian Air Control Tower on his account...you can check it out yourself.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Right, because that can ONLY be from being there. You can't find pictures of the tower anywhere else.

In fact here is the exact same photo that I saw on the twitter feed, from 2011, used as a stock photo.

Stock photo

a reply to: Zaphod58

That doesn`t matter, he existed and was real back in March `14.

The whole crap about him not being real is a cover up, that`s the whole point.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Wow. So he uses a stock photo of the control tower, and you say it doesn't matter? Of course it matters! He used a stock photo that was taken three years prior, and you say that proves he was really an air traffic controller. Just wow, that's a stunningly low standard for proof you have there.

A photo of the outside of the control tower doesn't prove anything at all. I just proved you can find the exact same picture as a stock photo with a simple Google search. That took me less than a minute to find that photo.

So if I go onto my twitter feed and post all kinds of things and include a stock photo of the Honolulu control tower, does that make me an air traffic controller in Honolulu?

a reply to: Zaphod58

What matters is he was a real and not some made up person, that`s what this is all about !

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

How does putting a photo of the control tower, that you can download from the internet, prove that he's who he says he is?

a reply to: Zaphod58

It proves he was a real person 4 months before it all happened and not some fake person as being said all over the news...and it proofs we have been lied to about it.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And even if he's a real person, so what? That still doesn't prove that he's an air traffic controller in Kiev, or that any of his other claims are true. Those are the claims that matter, and since those claims are fake, he's irrelevant to this argument. His claims are what is being said is fake, which they are. He couldn't be an air traffic controller in Kiev, because you have to be a citizen to work there as one. And since he can't be a controller, he couldn't have seen any of the things he claimed on Twitter.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

no it doesn't and you know it.