The Loss of Femininity in The USA

I approach the issue from the view of masculine and feminine qualities being things we all have within us, no matter what our gender.
Personally, I feel my own "goal" is to develop both of these and master them as much as possible.

I feel that the American culture put much value upon the masculine traits for a long time, and the women developed those in the last couple of generations- or at least tried to. The idea of femininity became "as seen from a mans point of view". Which entails objectification, focus on the sexuality and physical appearence... being inferior or subservient.

So faced with that option, yeah a lot of women said no thank you.

But in terms of personality forces, which is, in itself, a feminine type perception (I consider the focus upon internal and subjective part of our feminine qualities), those have been highly devalued in our society.

I became painfully aware of that when I came to France, and found the men to be a bit too "feminine"- they talk about love and beauty, don't even try to project an image of being supermen with big muscles, seemed a little lacking in the area of ambition and desire for power.

The women seemed way too overbearing and domineering to me. They don't hesitate to make all the decisions in the home for everyone (I used to say, what happened to a mans home being his castle?? -then overcome with the sudden terrible awareness of my deep seated bias).
If a child has a behavioral problem at school, it is the mother who is focused on as cause- they don't even bring up the father. It must be because the mother is not using enough discipline in the home.
I thought that was weird- why didn't they at least wonder if the husband is disciplining enough, or setting a bad example?
'Til I learned, she is responsible for his behavior too, so if he isn't doing something right, the responsibility still falls back on her. She is the master of the home and family, and how she runs that determines what kinds of individuals will come out of it each morning and interact socially with the exterior.

I had a my own commerce for a while, and could not believe the way each time I began business negotiations with a man to use his services or products, he would always say he had to let his wife look over the deal first and get her approval.
I would ask, "Oh, she works with you?"
"No... she is my partner! She works at the home, and is raising the kids."


I just was struck by the importance of the home for them, it is just as important as their work. They like being told what they should do, being counselled by their wives.

It just seemed weird to me, for a long time. I kept thinking- with these women being so domineering, they must be insensitive and hard. But no, that isn't the case. Much of their guidance is geared towards aiding their man understand and empathize, to look at situations from more angles than their own... to recognize the importance of "other" and include it in their decisions.

It took me a while to begin letting myself open up in such a way to my husband- and he actually expressed that he wanted it. He didn't want a yes girl who followed. He actually said one day that he wanted me to criticize him! He felt that he could trust my intents, and it is better to have me point out what he is doing wrong than to have a stranger he doesn't trust as much do it.

It took me a long time to learn values such as vulnerability- I once could see nothing good in being vulnerable, that is being weak and my upbringing told me being strong is of utmost importance.

I have struggled with the notion they say "Small is beautiful" - why would anyone choose a little tiny car, when you can have a big one, that feels "safer" to be in?
Why have a thin sensitive skin, when you can have a thick shell of a skin?

The reason is- with a thin one, you experience more love and beauty.
With a smaller car, smaller home, you have less debt, and less objects to worry about, and can put more focus on your loved ones and friends, than work and making money.

I think now that our hyper-consumerist culture makes everyone need to develop the masculine traits, and less the feminine.

And though I see each of as androgynous in this internal way, I consider that in a family, with children who have their personalities developing, it is appropriate to have one partner manifesting examples of masculinity and the other femininity (no matter what their gender) in order to educate the child on these different parts within themselves and how they can interact, create, and cooperate effectively with each other.

a reply to: Realtruth
I think this definately goes both ways.

One only has to look at metrosexuality in men, "bronie" culture, and young men too enamored with World of Warcraft to develop life skills. Hell, I work with a Japanese man who's SUV is plastered in Hello Kitty crap and is painted pink. This is definately a two way street.

I'd perhaps suggest you get out to new places. In a high powered law firm, boardroom, or any other business, yes you will see this type of woman. Go to a bar. Many "feminine" women there who would be more than happy to let you do the work while they get their nails done.

Oh? And those high powered women at the law firm who dress in business suits with their hair up? Many I'm sure let their hair down at home, cook dinner and put on some sexy lingerie for their man. Methinks your seeing things too black and white.

I think you hit on some very good points here and I almost wish your post was on the first page.

There seems to be a power struggle, within ourselves first, then outwardly to our relationships with the balance of male and female energies.

You have pointed out that when one person is dominated the other is submissive, and this doesn't seem to matter whether the person is male or female, or what country.

So it appears that masculine and feminine come from withing ourselves, but our choices in the physical reality may not reflect what we are feeling on the inside.

Oh it's on like Donkey Kong now.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird

That may have been bred out of humanity, the past two world wars killed of a great number of the tribal protectors. # even now a day, I still think some years ago when we first went to Iraq there was a piece on the news about a guy who could have went on to play football making millions but would have rather served his country and well got killed. I am sure Bush and Cheney is glad for his effort but many forgot him already, in fact I am probably the only one besides his family who ever remembers that story from back then. In this world those without a concious pray on those with one. And women are merely that which show up when the dust settles and a winner has been decided.

So really, ya. Are you surprised when you all have been supporting the systematic death and breeding out of the gene pool of those men? When you all have been supporting it for ages and ages even as far back as the industrial revolution and even farther back.

I agree that we waste way too many masculine specimens on stupid wars. But really "you all have been supporting it for ages? Ummm...I was born in 79 and I have never supported any war in my lifetime.

As for all you say. Its not all that hard, be glad you have something to hold on to, many men do not, not even there kids. In fact most women, and as everybody knows life is much easier and much better when you have something to be there for. So no, taking care of children is not harder, its easier, most especially for women and because it keeps you tied to life and socity and moving on. And last I heard these poor fools dont even have that, some threads ago in another such mix match you had story from another women about a guy sleeping in his care while trying to find a job with no liscence because they took it way when he could not pay the fee, and they did not give him the kids either.

First of all: there, their, they're are 3 comepletely different words, learn how to use them.

Second of all: I feel for guys who get boned in a divorce. And I will be the first to admit that there are trifling b#ches out there. I've had lots of guy friends and there's been one or two who get a raw deal.

But- waaaay more often do I know women who have been abandoned by guys. I have 2 kids by 2 guys, totally planned. I hit 30 and wanted kids before it was too late. I told both guys "I got this, but you can be involved as much as you want." Well guy 1 disappeared off the face of the earth 6 years ago. Guy 2 keeps in contact fairly regularly through e-mail, has bought a few things (diapers, toys, shoes) and has seen his son 3 times in a year. I am not complaining, it is what it is and I'm happy to have my children. And you're right, it's a hell of a lot easier to be 'alone' when you have children.

My best friend, on the other hand, accidentally got pregnant twice and kept both babies. Has not seen a dime of child support. And yes, she has depended on food stamps and Medicaid to survive. She couldn't work for several years because her oldest had a brain tumor/seizures.

So, let's look at the numbers shall we? 4 children, 4 dads. Any of them could have had any level of involvement that they so chose at any time and only ONE has CHOSEN to keep in touch and help a little and see his baby 3 times per year. You whine about men not being able to see their kids? More often than not it's THEIR CHOICE to never be around.

So no. Nothing you say means that you have it harder then the average guy. In fact in most cases much easier. Now if we took your kids away forced you out of your job, took your liscence away, and made it impossible to leave even the county, and be treated as a criminal, well how far do you think you will get? Well since your a women as far as the next guy to give you a ride and take you places. But men do not have that option you know.

Woa, woa, woa. Being a single mom is a freakin' Scarlet Letter. Guys don't walk, they run the other way. On dating sites guys specifically put "I want kids of my own someday, but I don't want to be raising some other guy's kids. So if you have kids, don't bother contacting me."

PS If the dip sh*t lost his license and was sleeping in a car, that's HIS fault. Not the court, not the baby mama.

The majority of women use kids as something for them to hold on to there lifes, so really there more of help then a hindrance, and for some there also a crutch. Well since your a women as far as the next guy to give you a ride and take you places. But men do not have that option you know.

I'm sorry, now you're just being incoherent.

In all there is a whole hell of a lot of seething hatred. And it ain't going nowhere. Not anytime soon. And that is the least of it. Some sneaky # is going on. And you all will likely not hear of it or see, but maybe your kids kids kids will one day understand it all in hindsight.

"Hate corrodes the vessel that carries it." I don't hate anyone. If you are seething with hate, maybe you should log off the internet and think on that for a while.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie
You know that pretty dam tempting...But should not that sort of stuff be left for other websites. I mean, this is a conspiracy site you know. Besides do you really want to tempt some of these people, this site is wacky crazy enough as it is, even if that got going it would be confusing as hell and go nowhere but in circles.

Wrong place wrong time sort of thing...Just saying, ya know. But ya! Cool chainsaw, and lady, and that's a very spiffy vogue looking goat you got there. I mean dam that goat hair is stylish.

Well, I'm clearly armed with a chainsaw. And I mentioned firearms in my post. Sooo....yeah, I'm not too worried about crazy, stalker guys.

And yes, Oni (the buck with the awesome hair), is a pimp!

Awwwwww Your post made my heart flutter! The world needs more guys like you!

originally posted by: Divin3F3nrus
This is a good thread. I thought I would just add a little bit of insight. I am a man. I am not the average man for my age. I am 21, I am married, I have a child and I am a successful tradesman. Most people my age are uninterested in anything but meaningless sex and drinking. I met my wife when I was 19. She was a single mother (divorced her husband of 3 years because he was physically abusive) with a job and a life of her own. I was an excited kid who was underemployed and sort of just walking through life. She moved in with me pretty soon into our relationship, and within a year I found myself married, now a father to the most beautiful little girl in the world and forced to step up and be a man. I got a full time job, went to school for welding and got a second job to make sure we culd make our bills.

Why did I have to work so much? Because she wanted to be a stay at home mom. All my life I had wanted the kind of family where I go to work all day and come home to a hot dinner, a kiss from my family and a clean house. I was taught growing up that I would have to do a lot of the housework and support my wife in whatever career she chose. I looked at these women who worked so much and refused to let a man help them and I became disgusted. I was once yelled at for holding a door open for a woman at the bank, because I was opressing her. I was merely being the man my father had raised me to be. When I met my wife the thing that I found most attractive was how she was with her daughter. Seeing her be the mother that she clearly was meant to be made me feel like I had to be the man I was meant to be, for her.

Jump a few months later when she quit her job and told me that someday she wanted to be a stay at home mom. I told her that I would do whatever it took to make her dream a reality. I started working 60+ hours a week while going to school so that she could stay at home and keep the house for me. I am more happy now than I have ever been. I still help with housework when I get the chance but she is the stereotypical housewife. She even makes me clothes (her mother was a seamstress and taught her how to work with cloth) and rubs my shoulders at the end of the day. We have both found the happiness that we needed in the arms of a 50's style marriage.

The femininity is there, we just have to find it. If my wife had wanted a career and not been a mother then she wouldnt have been the woman for me. I live for her, she lives for me. That was what I wanted in a marriage. She wears beuatiful dresses, swoons when I give her flowers, dances with me to our favorite music in our kitchen and cooks the best food I have ever had. She is a perfect, feminine woman, and I love her.

If there is a loss of femininity it is because of an error on both genders. Men nowadays dont like to work and dont support their families like they should. On the other side women feel like they have to do everything by themselves. If we just stepped up and did what we are supposed to do then women would have that choice again to be the feminine creatures that they are. Its when men walk out and leave them single, sont support them like they should and walk all over them that women are forced to get this thick skin and become these pseudo-women that we see today.

*as a side note. Feminists that insult my wife for being a stay at home mom and the way she lives with me do not help the situation. There are very few things in this world that upset me more than when somebody insults my wife for her lifestyle choice. If she chooses to clean the house, raise our daughter and let me slap her booty after a long day then so be it. (sorry for this rant section, I was just talking to my best friend's gf who is a feminazi and upset me)

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

But- waaaay more often do I know women who have been abandoned by guys. I have 2 kids by 2 guys, totally planned. I hit 30 and wanted kids before it was too late. I told both guys "I got this, but you can be involved as much as you want." Well guy 1 disappeared off the face of the earth 6 years ago. Guy 2 keeps in contact fairly regularly through e-mail, has bought a few things (diapers, toys, shoes) and has seen his son 3 times in a year. I am not complaining, it is what it is and I'm happy to have my children. And you're right, it's a hell of a lot easier to be 'alone' when you have children.

Unfortunately I don't understand this mindset. For two men to not want to be around the children they brought into this world, for me, signifies something very wrong in their make up as humans. It goes against every code of nature there is.

When my son was born I vowed to not work long hours, because I wanted to be part of his life from the time he was born, till the day I take my last breath here on earth.

It involved cutting back on some luxuries, but I fully understood I could never get back years and memories if I was at work full time, and away from my son. You know the "Cats and Cradle" song and all.

Our situation was a bit different. My son's mother/wife left when he was 3 years old, and I ended up with him full time for the first 3 years, but after a few years she ended up softening her position, and wanting back into his life. We can't change other people, but we can sure step up to the plate, if we take on responsibilities of children.

I personally think that both parents are ideal, but as long as the children have love from one parent they'll do just fine.

In a situation where a single parent is both the mother and the father, they are almost forced to balance both the male and female energies within themselves to nurture the children properly.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and life with us.

Peace,

RT

a reply to: Realtruth

Thanks for truly reading my words! Yes, I learned long ago that it's foolish to set goals that involve other people- for example "I want to be married by the time I'm 25.". Because in the end you have absolutely no control over anyone but yourself.

I'm totally happy with my situation. I have the honor of raising two beautiful human beings. It saddens me and disappoints me that their fathers aren't more involved....or involved at all. But whatevs.

When I was pregnant with my first I asked my friend- who was raised by a single mom- to tell me the best and worst things her mom did. She said the best was the fact that no matter how bad things got- no food, no electricity- her mom never took it out on them, or acted like it was any big deal. She said the worst was discipline, as in she *in terms of this thread* was too 'feminine' to sufficiently discipline. She wouldn't stand firm with her rules, and wouldn't follow through with punishment. So the household was lacking that 'masculine' influence.

Luckily I'm pretty evenly balanced with masculine/feminine so discipline isn't a problem. My girl is a girly girl and my boy is a typical boy. Both are very well behaved. And thanks to my friend's advice, no matter how bad things get I never let it show to them.

And now to lighten the mood:


That's my boy!

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie
lol I had no idea it was such a big deal. Its not on like Donkey Kong, its just words you know. But anyways.

I agree that we waste way too many masculine specimens on stupid wars. But really "you all have been supporting it for ages? Ummm...I was born in 79 and I have never supported any war in my lifetime.

I was speaking in a more broader perspective of women in general throughout the ages.

First of all: there, their, they're are 3 comepletely different words, learn how to use them.

I will do not such thing. English is a moot language as it is without me contributing to the nonsense. Besides, you must be like some sort of mind reader to know which one I was intending to write.

Second of all: I feel for guys who get boned in a divorce. And I will be the first to admit that there are trifling b#ches out there. I've had lots of guy friends and there's been one or two who get a raw deal.

It happens. Often, from all I hear and see.

But- waaaay more often do I know women who have been abandoned by guys. I have 2 kids by 2 guys, totally planned. I hit 30 and wanted kids before it was too late. I told both guys "I got this, but you can be involved as much as you want." Well guy 1 disappeared off the face of the earth 6 years ago. Guy 2 keeps in contact fairly regularly through e-mail, has bought a few things (diapers, toys, shoes) and has seen his son 3 times in a year. I am not complaining, it is what it is and I'm happy to have my children. And you're right, it's a hell of a lot easier to be 'alone' when you have children.

Generally people seemed to have forgotten, I dont know when it happened sometime in the past few 4,000 years or so. But believe it or not males also go through stages, and yes even a male version of PMSing. Its not the same as females but its not far off. Seems somewhere along the way that was curtailed and suppressed in favor for the whole female outlook on society. Generally the more complex a individual or issue the easier and faster it is to form into a whole, so basically in a way the more tunnel vision you have in life and the less issues, the faster you will mature. It is merely logical.

So really if your former husbands did not want to go through with kids, you should have first set there minds to it, which would likely take a long time. Or you should not have gone through with it and found somebody who did. Its likely why this whole thing leads to mutual destruction, everybody takes it all so super cereal. When really it should be the opposite of that. You all put eachother on the hype, then when that train stalls, all hell breaks lose.

You know at one point in time men were supposed to go through challenges or out in the wilderness and find themselves. Now a days everything is already pre programed to suit whims and tastes, of both society and women. And in that society and women have succeed. But for every plus there is a negative, So no real growth will ensue, in the end it will leave the whole of the human animal at the mercy of society. So every time the wind of society blows or changes direction, expect the majority of humans to be blown with it.

But ya! Believe it or not, you have to be engrossed in a thing to get adapted to it, so if you dont engross men into raising kids. Well everything begets itself, all pasterns are repeating. So ya! Its much easier to have a anchor onto life or reason why you do things, then not.

So, let's look at the numbers shall we? 4 children, 4 dads. Any of them could have had any level of involvement that they so chose at any time and only ONE has CHOSEN to keep in touch and help a little and see his baby 3 times per year. You whine about men not being able to see their kids? More often than not it's THEIR CHOICE to never be around.

No its not there choice. Because they did not choose it. They merely went along with it. There is a difference you know, one of complexity.The choice was forced upon them before they forced themselfs upon the choice, to sort of say. Probably take to long to explain. You know there is a reason why most women go for the more precocious ones, or why it takes so long to get some of them to come around. It does not happen by accident or even by nature, it takes work. Nature is merely there to make sure you all collide at some point in time. But that is all.

Does not matter now, I suppose.

Woa, woa, woa. Being a single mom is a freakin' Scarlet Letter. Guys don't walk, they run the other way. On dating sites guys specifically put "I want kids of my own someday, but I don't want to be raising some other guy's kids. So if you have kids, don't bother contacting me."

Well its a pain no doubt. But its also a pain raising other peoples kids you know, not because of hardship, but because everybody had the picture that they want in there head. I dont know, maybe your not on the right dating sites. Or maybe you should try your local neighborhood, or ask your relatives or friends to set you up, its how humans have been doing it for centuries, so there must be something there. I mean, your asking the wrong guy on that. But in all I have not seen women have that hard of a time at it, so who knows. If you dont know, I or any other dude would sure as hell wont know.

PS If the dip sh*t lost his license and was sleeping in a car, that's HIS fault. Not the court, not the baby mama.

Actually they take away your license for as simple as missing one payment, which could happen for missing a few days of work and or not getting in a check at time. Most dudes I know have had over 10 jobs by the time they reach 30 years of age. And basically all it takes is one missed process in your paperwork and goodby jobs. Now a days you have to know what you ate for breakfast some 10 something odd years ago in your resume for them to take you serious. Most of them are basically indentured slaves to the system by way of woman. Some make it, some do not. But all are jaded latter on.

So ya! That right there tells me more then I need to know about you or a lot of things.

I'm sorry, now you're just being incoherent.

Nah its plain fact. In fact its plain obvious.

"Hate corrodes the vessel that carries it." I don't hate anyone. If you are seething with hate, maybe you should log off the internet and think on that for a while.

OK. So says you. But again I was speaking in general terms. And there are a lot of people out there with a lot of seething hatred just barely held by cord. Women off course being merely the most obvious ones. Not saying that you aren't. But i am not saying that you are not....Just saying you know. Don't take it so cereal, jeez.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

And yes, Oni (the buck with the awesome hair), is a pimp!

Jeez. I knew somebody must have gotten to the poor goat. He looks like the goat version of a backstreet boys band member. I though you were running a farm there? What gives! Nah just messing, I suppose even goats got to be stylish.

What a load of...

Um... who defines femininity? You?

Sorry, I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but fragile, timid girls get on my freaking nerves. I'm a woman, btw, before anyone jumps the gun...

I'm probably the most masculine woman I know. I can't stand wearing dresses, or acting girly, or LOOKING girly... I feel so uncomfortable when I'm in a formal situation, stuck in a dress and tight, ankle-pinching shoes. I hate it so much. I usually stick to t-shirts, tank tops, jeans, and the occasional makeup and spikes, if I'm going out in public. Makeup is the most feminine thing I do.

I agree that women are loosing their class and innocence, and I agree that its a problem. Its tragic to see so many women acting like trailer trash at the slightest sign of emotional stress. I am not implying that all women should be like me, and I understand why women want to be feminine, but I simply don't.

Here's the funny thing--my fiance finds me absolutely stunning. I'm the most attractive person in the world to him, and I'm not bragging, I'm telling you what he's said word for word. He adores me for being raw, real, and for NOT being fake and hiding underneath some mask of false beauty or acting more vulnerable or timid than I actually am. He loves that I'm free of those facades that women have been brainwashed into adopting for generations. If I happen to cut my hair crooked, or sleep with my makeup on, he finds it adorable, not unattractive.

Embracing the raw, down-to-earth qualities that come with a person is the key to loving them with all your heart. This goes for BOTH genders. You're never going to find some perfect, shojuo-cutsey little girl.

To quote Robin Williams;

"Let me save you the suspense; she's not perfect. But it doesn't matter--the question is, weather or not she's perfect for you." --Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting, RIP

Also, you have to acknowledge the cultural flaws in BOTH genders if you're going to complain about how the generation seems to be degenerating. Most males don't exactly act ideal either.

My point is, I'm a pretty masculine woman, and my fiance finds that to be my most feminine trait--I'm emotional, and I'm also strong. Just like he is.

What's your definition of femininity, anyhow...?

Everything you described in the OP seems to be shared between both genders, and it seems like a list of things that a person isn't really capable of hiding. It seems to me like you're just fed up with women acting fake.

If that's the case, then I say, join the club. We'll make jackets.

a reply to: Realtruth

What is wrong with women earning more than men?
What is the ratio of single mothers to single fathers?

I would rather have them working than on welfare

originally posted by: VforVendettea
a reply to: Realtruth

What is wrong with women earning more than men?
What is the ratio of single mothers to single fathers?

Have you taken the time to read through the entire thread?

Many questions have already been answered a few times.

Peace,

RT

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Dontcha know you're supposed to be wearing a skirt and high heels, batting your eyelids and looking all vulnerable-like whilst holding that chainsaw, darlin' ??

Forget the accessorizing. I never needed more than a BandAid, fresh
Winston and a 93% hit rate from that Howitzer to go point for you,
Tank Babe. And if it ever hit the fan I WOULD feed you belt too.

Besides, a bad attitude is to die for, if not from when I screw up.
He's lucky to have you at his six o'clock when it goes wrong.

EDIT: You can save the giblets. Turn down the case from the Interapid
so the Starrett clamp can go on. What you've got is a measuring tool
that adjusts like a Swiss Cadillac and still isn't accurate. Story of my
life... but it works.

a reply to: Aliian

really?? no mention of how those dollars that were earned back then could buy you more??

and most women in the 70's didn't just up and decide I want to work
that wasn't really the main driving force behind the movement.
There were ladies that had probably worked 20 or so years before the 70's that are still working doing the same job at the age of 90 in the shop I worked at!!!
They were working then. They just wanted more options to the jobs they could hold along with a more equal pay...and the two desires were probably related since most of the traditional jobs that were open for women were lower paying jobs! But I remember as a kid seeing plenty of women (young and old) working!

originally posted by: XxNightAngelusxX
What a load of...

Um... who defines femininity? You?

Sorry, I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but fragile, timid girls get on my freaking nerves. I'm a woman, btw, before anyone jumps the gun...


What's your definition of femininity, anyhow...?

Everything you described in the OP seems to be shared between both genders, and it seems like a list of things that a person isn't really capable of hiding. It seems to me like you're just fed up with women acting fake.

I can't help but think you haven't read the thread.
I agree with the OP, but from what I read, he is refering to femininity as vulnerability. That is what gives birth to all these character attributes- empathy, sensitivity, the desire to nurture, care for, protect and guide others.
It is having a "thin skin" which allows one to feel others and feel that the well being of others is their own well being too.

We DO have cultural conditioning to believe that being vulnerable is bad. That it is being weak, that it is stupid, that we must be strong and aggressive and ambitious- men and women. The feminine side to us each is still demonized; still "the root of all evil", still the door through which our enemies could get in. Being fragile and vulnerable strikes us with a distaste still (as you expressed yourself).... and it seems to me that was enhanced after the events of 9/11.

"Femininity" is not referring to high heels, short skirts, and long batting eyelashes- those are the tools proposed to us by TPTB hoping to appease the innate desire to express ones femininity/vulnerability. Yes, it is fake. Because REAL vulnerability is risky.

What they want is a country of warriors, who either neglect their offspring at birth, leaving only the most hardy to survive, or make them autonomous fighters as quickly as biologically possible, so that they can be insensitive unfeeling defenders of the elite.

If fragile girls get on your nerves, congratulations, you are a warrior.

a reply to: Bluesma

That was a very well thought out response and input. Thank you!

In a nutshell that sums everything up, in the thread, well.

a reply to: Bluesma

I think you give the nefarious "They" far too much credit.

In my experience top tier corruption is just a cluster f***k of greediness and CYA. "They" really aren't as well organized in plan as you're envisioning.

I totally agree that feminine= vulnerable. The boiled down version of my post is- Being feminine is a luxury. You need someone to handle the masculine things. And you definitely can't make it in society by being 100% feminine. As a woman I could either be 100% feminine, with a man to support me. Or I have to dial up the masculine in order to survive. But I don't think it could possibly be some grand conspiracy. It's just the evolution of our shared history. This is the period we're in. *shrug*