"You can't say 'I can't breathe' if you can't actually breathe"

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

That anyone can watch that video and blame Garner is shocking. He was talking, maybe even arguing but not resisting, resisting under the law requires some physical indication, no matter how slight. Garner was unarmed, hands up, back against a wall, surrounded by 4 or 5 LEO...exactly how did he resist? By trying to verbally communicate with them?



These arguments and justifications are so pathetic and callous in the context of the video.

And yet they drone on. The Police State is so deeply ingrained in our view of what is acceptable that we have left our our common sense and humanity behind.

I would say that having a man's arm wrapped around your throat and having another man simultaneously kneel on your chest isn't exactly conducive to normal, care-free respiration...especially if you are clinically obese (as the gentleman clearly was).

But I have to say that I disagree that this was a racially-motivated incident, and Bill De Blasio's comments about "black lives matter" was unhelpful and designed to foment racial tensions.

Garner was needlessly and incompetently restrained and with excessive force, essentially because he was a big fella...not because he was also African American.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Of course the justifications by the apologists will be, "He had a record"...

I'm not seeing many apologists for what the cops did in NYC. Most everyone agrees that they used excessive force and killed the man.

The Wilson/Brown case is a whole other situation than the NYC one.
Difference situation and different evidence.

But the NYC one ... from what I see here, and elsewhere online, and on TV ... nearly everyone agrees the cops and the Grand Jury are wrong.

a reply to: CJCrawley

Garner was needlessly and incompetently restrained and with excessive force, essentially because he was a big fella...not because he was also African American.

He was needlessly and incompetently restrained - with excessive force. This is the only part of any of this that matters

He died as a result

The fact that there are absolutely no consequences - what are we to make of that?

I think some people are counting on a kind of societal fog of war approach to enforcing the law - the fact that you can't prove it wasn't racially motivated doesn't mean it wasn't

Some people will justify anything the police do because they are afraid and because it isn't happening to them

a reply to: FlyersFan
Oh there are quite a few and they are quite vocal. To name a few:

Peter King
Rudy Giuliani
Bob McMamus
Bernard Kerik
Former NYP Harry Houck, CNN panelist:

HOUCK: Let me say something. First of all, what a lot of people don't understand is that man was a big man. OK. Now I'm a big guy, all right. 6'4", 220 pounds, and I worked up in Harlem back in the early '80s. OK. Now, when you're going to take a guy like that down, the only way you can take him down is by the neck, all right. Unless you want me to beat him with a night stick.

And countless others IRL and on the web.

a reply to: kosmicjack
I guess I just haven't run into any.
Then again, I"ve been too busy to watch a lot of the TV news so ...

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Bill De Blasio's comments about "black lives matter" was unhelpful and designed to foment racial tensions.

You don't think that matters?

a reply to: CJCrawley

You don't think that matters?

Which part?

I think black lives matter - and should matter as much as anyone's. I think saying that out loud repeatedly is necessary - apparently. It's ridiculous that it's something that needs to be said out loud

The part about fomenting racial tensions? Honestly? If you haven't noticed the racial tensions that permeate almost everything these days - I guess it might look like fomenting

Boulder cop who killed elk receives approriate sentence

Boulder District Attorney Stan Garnett surprised some observers last week when he asked Judge Patrick Butler to sentence a former police officer to prison for his role in killing an elk last year in a Boulder neighborhood.

Garnett said Sam Carter showed no remorse for his behavior and instead had been flippant and arrogant about his illegal conduct, which included tampering with physical evidence. So Garnett asked the court "to send a message about the seriousness of this case."

Fortunately, the judge declined to do so — no doubt in part because the message had already been sent. Carter has lost his job, will have to continue in life with felonies on his record, and will pay $10,200 in fines. That's hardly a slap on the wrist.

This is what happened to a cop that killed an elk illegally here in my state

See the problem?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Why even mention that he was black or that "black lives matter" - how ridiculous!

There was nothing obvious about the incident which might cause one to say those things, other than the victim was black and the cops were white.

So what?

He was being arrested for an alleged offense and was incompetently and excessively restrained...because he was massive.

You might just as well say "clinically obese lives matter".

Reminder~~~

This is a thread in rant....
nonetheless, please stay on topic~~~ "You can't say 'I can't breathe' if you can't actually breathe"
and

Community Announcement re: Decorum

We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

a reply to: kosmicjack
As a black belt in judo i can tell you there are many ways to take a big man down. None of them are by the neck. Obviously a smaller guy has no leverage reaching up to a taller man.

And it chokes the blood not the wind. He died from his heart stopping it really doesnt matter. It was uncalled for. It also shouldnt matter how he died just who caused it. If i punch a guy in the head with an eggshell skull and he dies i go to jail. It doesnt matter if he had a preexisting condition. But with cops its different i guess. You can kill whoever you want as long as they dont have too much social power.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Does the guy dying provide any indicators of his inability to breathe?

originally posted by: TownCryer
a reply to: kosmicjack

Does the guy dying provide any indicators of his inability to breathe?

Its really all the cops fault they are all responsible. Nobody stopped the officer and they all contributed to a very probable anxiety attack heart attack. Mix in your main arteries cutting off blood to the brain and you have a nasty hommicide. His preexisting condition has nothing to do with anything if i choke out an asthma person or beat someone into a heart attack or stroke because they have a weak heart i still get indicted. The preexisting condition does not matter. Unless your a cop in a poor neighborhood. Then its just a normal day. Cops also use the same preexisting condition when they kill drug addicts because of their preexiating condition caused it. No one else gets off with murder but cops and its wrong regardless of what they sacrifice to be on the beat. In fact because they are representing law inforcement tbey should be held accountable even more not less. They signed up for the job so its no excuse that its dangerous or what they go through every day. These people are supposex to uphold the law not break it.

a reply to: kosmicjack

That claim is rubbish I am relatively competent with jujutsu and unarmed combat at 5ft 9 Ive taken down guys well over 6ft and well over 300 lbs a well applied armlock or wristlock will let you take the person in the hold wherever you want unless they are on drugs and dont mind breaking bones...then you apply your chokes or strangles

a reply to: khnum
Exactly you would never jump on a guy for a rear naked choke as a takedown. Not ony do you risk getting slammed or flipped its a choke.... sure if you stop the blood to his brain he falls. 5 cops cant execute a takedown is pretty sad. Big guys like that almost fall down on their own a simple trip, reap, or sweep usually does it. Once they are down they cant get back up easily with that much weight.

I've actually been in this situation with the cops, when you say you can't breath you're making you last exhale just to let them know you're gonna be out for the count very shortly!

Like other posters have said, there is no relation whatsoever to the Brown case at all, if you're trying to play connect the dots you're pushing an agenda.

This case was homicide, in your face no denial, no excuse..... Browns on the other hand.....

a reply to: jheated5
Brown's case is an unknown. Its not simple either way and its a larger prob symptom rather than the individual case like this one. St luis dont forget was where they tested the effects of radiation poisoning on the black community in goverment housing. Its a social problem that american citizens live in # communities across the us and there are poorly trained poorly numbered police in those comminities. Not to mention the intentional drug traffic being completely allowed to cross a porous boarder. Most civilized cultures leave ghettos for immigrants we dont even go that far.

Brown was an unknown with no video but we do know the lack of social justice in poor society, bad education, drugs allowed by government black market, lack of jobs or job training, lack of trained police in appropriate numbers to levels of crime (which stresses police out), and intentional class division. So people have displaced their anger and the lack of leadership or actual intentional misleadership by the al sharptons of the world led to the outrage.

a reply to: luthier

I like the way you think

a reply to: luthier

Yes very unprofessional and he did not apply the choke properly either,initially in training these chokes are taught in controlled circumstances as they are dangerous,as soon as you start to feel yourself fade you tap out,which is the same for competition --most tap out before they pass out, if applied properly your in trouble in a few seconds, this choke this officer applied took quite some time in strangling the victim and should have stopped when he complained he couldn't breathe.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Best thing I saw in a while was a bouncer putting a guy in a jujitsu restraint and the guy kept saying "I cant breath!!! I can't breath!!!!' The bouncer yells. If you can TALK YOU CAN BREATH. I HATE LIARS!!!!

Yes the guy being restrained was a total prick who was really drunk and smacked a chick for something. And a fight broke out. The guy was walking around like a real tough guy too the whole night with his girlfriend cowering behind him. That bouncer straightened him out right quick. Skinny bouncer too. But damned good.