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"You can't say 'I can't breathe' if you can't actually breathe"

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posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 12:48 PM
a reply to: luthier

Brown is not an unknown, we have video of him indicating intent, forensic evidence, an autopsy report, eyewitness testimony.... Why do people blame TPTB for the way individuals act???

They may shove the populace into undesirable positions but peoples gullibility is a major factor, when does personal responsibility come into play?

It's actually insulting TBH to say that the black community has been duped, implying their gullibility and lack of intelligence. I've read reports that over 50% of Americans have an IQ below 100.... I think those reports were being generous considering where we're at.

(post by Char-Lee removed for a manners violation)

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 01:12 PM
a reply to: jheated5

Personal responsibility is always a factor. But, its not so simple and gullibility is not the issue. Maybe reading some urban anthro and looking at it from outside your own perspective or etic/emic perspective you would see. So children of the 50's in this neighborhood were literally expiremented on with radiation as admitted by the feds a few years ago. Drugs are everywhere and law enforcement is underfunded to do anything about it, the schools are terrible and many homes are perpetual ptsd situations. So while i highly regard personal responsibility and in the end is what it comes down to you cant solve the problem without understanding. Just saying it comes down to personal responsibilty is ignorant of what we know of sociology, psychology, and anthropology and would be happy to debate based on accepted social science terms.

The brightest highest achievera often get out. I know a ufc fighter/college wrestling champ that grew up in st louis ferguson area. He got out, but he has an incredible work ethic beyond most anyone i know.

Its different if your average or below average you have sisters and brothers, sometimes parents to take care of and what happens along the way. Its not reasonable if you want social change to simply make it about choices and personal accountability. It doeant matter if the chicken or the egg came first you have to understand where it is now and how it effects the general public. Its not about race its about oportunity. If you dont have it and never seen it you may not think it exhists. Only the absolute most driven will not stop fighting for it in any skin colored society.

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 01:59 PM

originally posted by: Tardacus
I have no interest in delving into the details of every police involved shooting,that`s what the grand jury is for,I also have no interest in playing Monday morning quarterback and second guessing the actions of the police and the grand jury.
They are out there everyday putting their lives in danger to protect us. their actions in each individual situation is a judgement call based on their training.
They might not always make the right spur of the moment judgement call but that`s no reason to throw them in jail.
Their actions aren`t based on malicious intent or willful neglect.if people think it`s so easy to go out there everyday and make the right call every time, while putting their lives in jeopardy, then they should turn off their computers and go sign up to be a police officer.

Monday morning quarterbacking is for cowards.

Being a police is not something involuntary. If your chosen line of work is in law enforcement, you know going in what the work entails. You signed up for a dangerous job and are responsible for making the right decisions in split seconds. They know what they signed up for, if they cannot perform those duties under those conditions then find other line of work. Just sayin'!

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 04:10 PM
a reply to: jheated5

What video of him indicating intent? Oh you mean of him in the store i assume. You do know that the store owners lawyer has came forward on TV saying that his client never stated that the man in the video who robbed them was Mike Brown, they said they have NEVER seen the man in the video before, and NEVER seen M. Brown before. There's a youtube video of him being interviewed on the news, and immediately after he says that they "apologize for losing the signal", hahaha yeah right. Can't believe you guys are still buying this #.

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 04:22 PM
a reply to: Bundy

Since youtube is the pinnacle of factual evidence and all, must be true, oh yeah lawyers tell the truth too! HAHA Crazy he had a doppelganger running around in his neighborhood the whole time!

Could you embed the video for me or a link maybe? It'd be nice if I were wrong, just ignore the other evidence too it's cool I just want to see THAT video...

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 04:28 PM
a reply to: Bundy

Since it appears the MSM wants to stoke the fires over Ferguson as long as possible, why on earth would they try and prevent somebody from coming out and saying what you say the store owner did? That would be hugely explosive.

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 06:22 PM
a reply to: jheated5

Well it's a video on youtube of a CNN interview, i dont put a lot of trust in mainstream news, but since you are eating up everything they've said about the case so far i assume you do and it would be something you would at least find credible. Many have said that the man in the video and MB werent wearing the same clothes, so doppleganger no, man who may look something like MB yes. No lawyers do not always tell the truth, but for that matter police lie just as often so why buy their #?

I haven't ignored any evidence. I've looked far and wide for evidence (Well, on the internet), unlike you obviously, and what i've found tells me that there's something they are hiding.

@Shamrock96, I have no idea. It was puzzling to me as well. All i can say is, it is real the video exists and here it is for you to take what you will from it.

edit on 5-12-2014 by Bundy because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 07:04 PM
a reply to: Bundy

Okay now I'm convinced, you probably haven't even watched the video yourself.... All the video said was the store owner was trying to be on the citizens side by not revealing his identity to possibly save his store.

In the end of the video it just shows the guy who was fearful of retaliation and who had thought by not revealing it was MB was wrong and in the end when he tried to help the community they stabbed him in the back!

Talk about blowback on your part!

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 08:35 PM
a reply to: nerbot

What happens next is what happened to Eric Garner

posted on Dec, 5 2014 @ 08:40 PM
a reply to: Tardacus

They HAVE all committed crimes. BUT, Have you noticed they've pretty much all committed minor offenses? Seems when the cops confront a major criminal, i.e., one that will make headlines, then all of a sudden they proceed with non life threatening actions

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:07 AM
Lol at this thread.

1) You mean when you are applying a choke hold, the person it's being applied to cannot breath?!

2) why would one stop the hold? Nobody knew if garner had a weapon. Are people really nieve enough to stop the hold until the cuffs are on?

3) do you really think that ripping your arm away from the cop when he was trying to arrest you isn't reseating arrest? Should the cops have them said, you know if you feel that strongly about not getting arrested, well I guess you are right. You are not the criminal we are trying to arrest, we will move along.

If you want to talk about that what ever law Garner broke shouldn't be illegal, and that we are over regulate. That's understandable. That making more laws requires more police to enforce those laws, that's fair.

Once a cop starts arresting someone, they have to follow through and arrest them. garner was not listening, so the cops would either have to use physical force or technological force. In theory, a MMA choke out, would be the easiest and quickest. It turned out tragic but the logic of what happened is solid

(post by Bundy removed for a manners violation)

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 12:25 AM
a reply to: thinline

Jesus. What is with these topics? Really bringing out the MENSA crowd.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 07:50 AM
a reply to: thinline

Aside from NYPD having a policy against choke holds and all, you mean?

As for why one would stop the choke hold and move on to something else...well, when one thing isn't gaining control of a subject, you move to another until you find something that will gain control. "hold on like a bull rider in a rodeo" isn't any technique I've ever heard of.

As for the rest of it, spot on.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 07:59 AM
While being chocked and restrained by several cops he may not have had the presence of mind to say "I'm having TROUBLE breathing", which can still lead to death. You can be breathing and still die from not receiving ENOUGH oxygen. So, whether or not he could technically breathe is irrelevant.

It's like feeding someone a single grain of rice 3 times a day and saying "there's no reason he should starve to death! he's had 3 meals a day every day!"

And the faster your blood is pumping, the more oxygen you need. Everytime your heart beats, a portion of the oxygen remaining in your lungs is taken into your blood stream.

If you can picture yourself in a similar situation to what is depicted in the video, it is not difficult to understand that your heart rate would be increased a bit. Meaning that your oxygen intake would need to be increased accordingly.

This is not rocket science, but apparently 5th grade biology is simply too difficult for some people to comprehend in any meaningful or useful way that would facilitate the application of such knowledge in real life situations.

The alternatives left are, A) they knew the consequences of their actions/inactions, but did not care if the person lived, died, suffered permanent brain damage, or B) they knew the consequences of their actions/inactions, and they wanted to harm or kill him.

They are either suffering from some form of mental deficiency or disorder, or they are bloodthirsty maniacs. Neither option is comforting, or acceptable for a person who is responsible for upholding the law and maintaining justice. And by "they", I mean any officer in the immediate area who could see what was going on or could hear the man crying out.

It's nkt just the man doing the choking who is responsible. Not one officer on the scene saw anything wrong with the situation. Just another day on the job, just another citizen crying out in agony, just another human life snuffed out like a candle...

If that was me standing by while a man was choked to death, I'd be charged as an accessory to murder!
edit on 12/6/2014 by 3n19m470 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 10:19 AM
a reply to: CJCrawley

Why even mention that he was black or that "black lives matter" - how ridiculous!

There was nothing obvious about the incident which might cause one to say those things, other than the victim was black and the cops were white.

You're focusing on the actual incident. He was a black man being arrested by white cops - how many times a day do you think that happens? That's one small part of a much bigger picture. Nobody is saying (because it would be hard to prove) that the arrest happened the way it did because of racism. It's not an impossible argument to make - but that's another argument for another thread

People are angry because there is no justice - once again - in a situation that at the very least should have resulted in a charge of involuntary manslaughter. A lack of justice seems to happen far too often - statistically - when it comes to people of color

The police are supposed to be about law and order - to protect and serve. They interact directly with the public, and there should be (one would think) a fair amount of training that goes into preparing them for encounters just like this

If your surgeon was negligent, and you died as a result - there would be consequences. If your electrician was negligent - and you died as a result - there would be consequences. If a bus driver was negligent - and passengers died as a result - consequences

Being employed as law enforcement doesn't mean they're above the law - they're still citizens. If they kill someone while performing their duties we should demand that they are held as accountable for their actions as you or I would be - no difference

If we remove race completely from this story? No difference. The whole story played out right in front of us - are we supposed to just accept that he didn't mean to kill anybody and that's good enough?

How does race enter the picture? Statistics and history

This is obviously an unrelated story - but it's interesting because again - nobody was indicted

At approximately 5 am, on November 19, 2011, Chamberlain was at home in the Winbrook Public Housing at 135 S. Lexington Avenue in White Plains, New York. His Life Aid medical alert device was triggered, sending an alert to a Life Alert Emergency Response customer service operator, who in turn called the City of White Plains Department of Public Safety. In response, police officers, firefighters, and emergency medical technicians were dispatched. At Chamberlain's home, police knocked on his door. Chamberlain told them through the door, he did not call them, did not require assistance, was not having a medical emergency, and asked them to leave. Police refused to leave his home, and insisted that Chamberlain open the door. Throughout the entire incident, an audio recording was made by a Life Alert device in the home.

The police became more insistent, and began banging on the door. Chamberlain then contacted the Life Alert operator asking them for help. He stated that the White Plains Police employees were going to enter his home and kill him. The police continued to bang on the door, and then attempt to force it open for approximately one hour. During that time, officer Steven Hart swore at him and called him a "'n-word'."

Upon breaking down his door, they entered Chamberlain's apartment. Police allege Chamberlain came at them with a butcher knife when they broke down the door. Chamberlain's family claims the elderly Chamberlain was unarmed, and did not resist. Police tased him, and then shot him with a bean bag round fired from a shotgun. Chamberlain allegedly continued to charge at officers with a butcher knife when Officer Anthony Carelli (whose name was withheld for over four months) shot him twice in the chest with live ammunition. A camera mounted on the taser captured the tasing, but was not functioning during the shooting. Chamberlain later died in surgery at White Plains Hospital.

A grand jury reviewed the case and decided that no criminal charge would be made against police officers involved in the killing. Because grand jury proceedings are secret in New York, the details of the case presented to this body are not known. Lawyers for the family suggest that the case may have been presented in a misleading or ineffective way and are therefore seeking other legal recourses, such as requesting a federal investigation. On July 2, 2012 a civil suit for $21 million was filed by the victim's son, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr. against the City of White Plains and the White Plains Police Department. In November, 2012, the Chamberlain family amended their lawsuit to require the city to modify police procedures with the mentally ill.

Racism Accusations of racism have been leveled at both the police officers involved, and at law enforcement and justice systems that were reluctant to react. Chamberlain's son, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr., discussed both issues with lawyer Mayo Bartlett on Democracy Now, highlighting the absurdity of police shooting a person they were summoned to help, as well as the unusual delay in the grand jury investigation. Chamberlain Jr. said "I wasn’t trying to turn this into any type of racially motivated killing, until we heard the audio"—in particular, Hart's use of the word "'n-word'." On February 15, 2012, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr. said his lawyers had filed a notice of claim informing the city, White Plains Public Safety Department, and White Plains Housing Authority to expect the wrongful death lawsuit.

White Plains Police Department Lawyer Mayo Bartlett points out that the White Plains police system wrote their reports to cover up racism and wrongdoing by the officers. Their transcript of the incident omitted Hart's use of the word "'n-word'," as well as the information that the original call had been for a medical emergency. Public Safety Commissioner David Chong said in a May 3, 2012 statement that the Police Department would conduct an internal review of the incident and fully cooperate with an independent study to be done by a panel of experts to review the department's policies and procedures and recommend any improvements.

Back to this case -

The Grand Jury In The Eric Garner Chokehold Case Was Especially Unlikely To Indict

Almost 60 percent of Staten Islanders, on average, said police treat both races the same, according to Quinnipiac’s surveys. Only 31 percent of all New Yorkers felt the same way. (Staten Island’s adult citizen population — the group from which the grand jury was drawn — is almost 70 percent non-Hispanic white; New York overall is majority non-white).

More than 75 percent of Staten Islanders approve of the job the police do, compared to just 52 percent of all New Yorkers.

Had this trial been held in any other borough, the pool of potential grand jurors would have been less favorable to the NYPD.

It's a lot of information - but you seemed to be confused about how race plays into all this. It's people that make these decisions and decide policy, and ratios (let's just call it ratios if you don't want to talk about race) matter

It happens often enough - people don't forget

edit on 12/6/2014 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 10:41 AM
a reply to: markovian

one of the problems with police is that they appear to not know how to do a choke hold. The proper choke hold is called a blood choke. It doesn't have anything to do with preventing breathing. Just cuts off the blood flow to the brain. Every time I've had it done to me or done it to someone else. I was out or they were in about 6 seconds. The cop should have known that he was doing it wrong if the guy wasn't limp as a rag after 6 seconds. Some people can even do it in 2 seconds. It is safe and works well wen done properly.

This cop obviously didn't know jack about how to apply one. And he shouldn't have either in this situation.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 01:50 PM
a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I agree that charges should have been brought - I've already said as much on another related thread.

And I'm shocked and appalled that this hasn't happened...also that the members of the Grand Jury were so unrepresentative (I didn't know that).

I'm also aware of the existence of racist white cops, and I'm sure you can dredge up more examples from around your vast country if you really tried.

I was responding specifically to the words of the NY Mayor, who went on a little diatribe about white racism and that "black lives matter".

That was uncalled for in this example and will only stoke up resentment in the black population of NY.

There has already been a revenge killing in the Ferguson case, and I'm mighty glad I'm not a resident of NY right now.

The arresting cops should be retried with a suitably racially mixed jury...a citizen died, they NEED to be charged.

posted on Dec, 6 2014 @ 02:00 PM
I know sometimes there are incidents where the cops are just out of control. But on the other hand, something that people need to understand about the police is a lot of these incidents started with the subjects being belligerent and combative. Now set aside for a moment whatever feelings you have about cops using excessive force. By now, everyone should know that you don't argue with the police and you absolutely do not make them feel in any way threatened.

If the cops are trying to arrest you, DO NOT RESIST. If you feel it was wrong, tell it to the judge. Police officers (in general) are not intellectuals. They're muscle men. You're lucky if they know the law as well as they're supposed to. If these guys could be working a job in a science lab or something, they probably would be. They're probably not the brightest bulbs to start with. Don't give them an excuse. Just do what they say and let the judge sort it out.

Don't run from them. Don't yell at them or call them names (even if they do so to you first) don't touch them. Don't argue with them. Don't do anything you think will antagonize them. And finally, don't make any sudden moves and make absolutely sure your hands stay in full view at all times. People don't realize that when a cop is watching them, the one thing he's probably focusing on is what they're doing with their hands. If you follow all of these suggestions, the chances are, nothing bad will happen and you will have a much better chance in court.
edit on 6-12-2014 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-12-2014 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

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