"You can't say 'I can't breathe' if you can't actually breathe"

a reply to: CJCrawley

I replied to your post(s) because they were reasonable - so I'm glad that we're not actually arguing

You know what I really think? I think that if we tolerate bad behavior (which includes bad decisions made by people other than the cops) nothing changes

What this situation boils down to is that it's as much about the fact that the crime went unpunished as it was about the actual crime. If we look at it that way, the case was presented to a jury that was probably biased. We can't prove that of course, proving racism is difficult if not impossible. We all recognize it when we see it though. Certain people experience it first hand. This has happened over and over again. People don't forget and they're angry

You see that statement as being needlessly provocative. I see it as something necessary if we want to improve our system and see real change. This is what protesting does - it puts a spotlight on the problem

Bottom line: Black lives matter - we don't get to sweep this under the rug and pretend that it didn't happen the way that it did then carry on as if nothing happened. People were already furious. When he said that out loud all he did was state the obvious

I want to reiterate something that I brought up way earlier in this thread. That is the issue of police reprisal. The man who filmed this incident is now in jail on a gun charge. Hard top prove this was payback for the video, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Remember, juries can be intimidated too. The police will very rarely break rank. They will defend and cover up for each other, and they will issue reprisals for one another.

this is getting ridiculous with all these people that have no idea what happens daily for LEO's to be commentating. Whats even more ridiculous are these people that claim you should shoot someone in the hand or leg instead of center mass. Get real! you know how many people claim they cant breathe when an officer is taking them down? THE MAJORITY....why are you resisting? i've been detained by cops before for no reason. Apparently a robbery vehicle matched the description of my car..they stopped me at gun point. put me in cuffs sat me on the floor until they determined i was not the robbery suspect nor was that the robbery suspect get away vehicle. i understand why they did it. i listened. i obeyed and i went about my business. these officers arent out there saying "lets see who we can kill today" dont be ridiculous. Most officers never discharge their weapon during their whole career. its a very small percentage that do. and the ones that do that i know personally definitely didn't feel good about it afterwards. no one wants to have to kill someone. it takes less than a second for a suspect to go for your gun and use your own weapon against you or a gun they have in their waistband or knife or whatever it may be. its your life or theirs. and if they are resisting any person with common sense is going to assume its because they (A. have something they arent supposed to or **B. they've done something they werent supposed to) obey the law and comply and you will be ok 99.9999999999999% of the time. very rarely are their cases like that 12 yr old that had a bb gun and ended up being shot. They definitely used wrong tactics there. and i believe they were at fault. but with all these school and child shootings who knows what can happen. i believe there are 2 and ONLY 2 occasions where you put your life 100% on the line. and that meaning "hey if im wrong im probably going to die." and those 2 occasions are when a child is involved like the 12 yr old incident. they should have done anything in their power to make sure that was an actual weapon and that the child was intending to use it before they reacted. and the other occasion being with innocent people are in harms way ie: a hostage situation. i saw not to long ago a suspect ran into a families house and held them hostage. SWAT arrived and saw a figure move across the window that they thought was the suspect and fired shots. it ended up being a hostage. that was definitely wrong. but again there are those that could make the argument that how old is a child no longer a child? and how long can you let someone hold people hostage? at some point they would have had to make a rescue attempt. and if things went badly during the rescue do you still hold the officers accountable?

that being said should officers be held for murder or manslaughter? unless they intended to kill the innocent person absolutely not. should they be fired? Absolutely for making bad decisions and not being up to the standard that officers should be. and the families should be well compensated for their loss. Accidents like the Garner situation? it was a choke hold. he didnt intend to kill the guy. it was an accident. if he wasnt resisting he would have never been in a hold to begin with. i am one of the first people to call into question officers actions.I am un bias either way juts giving you my opinion.

any replies whether you agree or disagree would be appreciated

a reply to: kosmicjack

Thank you for the thread.

At this point I don't even know what to say anymore. After I saw the accused officer smile and wave at the camera I'm convinced we have actual psychopaths working as LEOs so they can get away with torture and murder.

originally posted by: Tardacus
I have no interest in delving into the details of every police involved shooting,that`s what the grand jury is for,I also have no interest in playing Monday morning quarterback and second guessing the actions of the police and the grand jury.
They are out there everyday putting their lives in danger to protect us. their actions in each individual situation is a judgement call based on their training.
They might not always make the right spur of the moment judgement call but that`s no reason to throw them in jail.
Their actions aren`t based on malicious intent or willful neglect.if people think it`s so easy to go out there everyday and make the right call every time, while putting their lives in jeopardy, then they should turn off their computers and go sign up to be a police officer.

Monday morning quarterbacking is for cowards.

I almost gave you a star for the most idiotic post I've ever read on this site. Be careful, Karma is a bitch. Let's see what you're going to write when a family member gets killed by a cop who had "no malicious intent" … WTF!

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: kosmicjack

In ER response training regarding choking...we first ask if they can breathe...then if they can speak. If they can do one or both…they can breathe.

So Mr. Garner died of food poisoning, heart attack, did he commit suicide …? Was he just faking asphyxiation? Please tell me.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Bundy

Im an Emergency Medical Tech and Response Team 1st responder (ambulances...you know?)

Youre "what-if's" GTFO...is pretty childish. Where do you live again? Ask your Mom and Dad....next time you need an ambulance...we'll know not to respond to your emergency.

It'd be ok with you if we just say "GTFO" of here?

I'm praying to all the gods that you don't work in LA.

The four NY EMTs that responded actually never treated Mr. Garner at the scene. They only loaded him onto a stretcher. Good job

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: Tardacus

His crime was petty and didn't deserve punishment by death.

What crime? Standing in front of a store is now a crime?

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

That anyone can watch that video and blame Garner is shocking. He was talking, maybe even arguing but not resisting, resisting under the law requires some physical indication, no matter how slight. Garner was unarmed, hands up, back against a wall, surrounded by 4 or 5 LEO...exactly how did he resist? By trying to verbally communicate with them?

These arguments and justifications are so pathetic and callous in the context of the video.

And yet they drone on. The Police State is so deeply ingrained in our view of what is acceptable that we have left our our common sense and humanity behind.

I'm tired of playing this game. Why don't the apologists have the guts to come out and say it: We defend the right to kill a black man at will.

Yes, I said it.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
I would say that having a man's arm wrapped around your throat and having another man simultaneously kneel on your chest isn't exactly conducive to normal, care-free respiration...especially if you are clinically obese (as the gentleman clearly was).

But I have to say that I disagree that this was a racially-motivated incident, and Bill De Blasio's comments about "black lives matter" was unhelpful and designed to foment racial tensions.

Garner was needlessly and incompetently restrained and with excessive force, essentially because he was a big fella…not because he was also African American.

Same treatment to an obese white guy in a business suit? Really …?

Is the coyote explanation valid?

a reply to: AllIsOne

Poor white working class American criminals wear business suits?

Wow, I didn't know that.

Interesting...

Could easily have suffered the same fate if he was the same size and resisting arrest.

Or do you think they would have gone, "Hang on boys, he's one of ours. Take it easy..."