pope says christian fundies no better than isis

when you throw a brick in the air and predict it will fall, is that prophecy or common sense? if you get hit by the brick when it comes back down, does that make you a martyr or an idiot?

a reply to: blackthorne

The true fundamental teachings of christ, not the teachings of fundamentalist christians are something i in essence practice day to day. I'm an atheist. I do not agree with the teachings of any church, or any religion in it's entirety. I believe in all the good stuff they use to make you swallow their bull#, judgement, and fear.

If the pope is finally going to teach those truly good morals, and call out those who are in essence blackening religion. I say here here.

I always liked this pope, from his first day. I'm not going to become a christian, but I'm happy he is going to help save christianity from itself.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Willtell

I agree with most of your post except...

ISIS sprung from Islamic fundamentalism

I thought with the great work you did in the Vallee threads you would research deeper and realize that ISIS is a western creation to destabilize the middle east further. ISIS is needed for perpetual war.

truth11.com...

“Today, it is infinitely easier to to kill a million people than to control a million people.”- Zbigniew Brzezinski

“Today, it is infinitely easier to to kill a million people than to control a million people.”- Zbigniew Brzezinski, imperialist/globalist/war-monger, former policy advisor to Obama, CFR and Trilateral Commission founder, lamenting about how the global political awakening is making it increasingly difficult to sedate/exploit and the masses.

Let's say that ISIS is a Western creation to further the goal of perpetual war. It may well be. That does not negate the fact that it consists of fundamentalists and that fundamentalism was used to recruit and unify them into a monstrous force. The Religious Right in the west is a totalitarian political movement fronting as a religious movement. The fact that most of the members of it are oblivious makes it no less real and no less dangerous. The same is true of ISIS. The real agenda of those pulling the strings behind the scenes is rarely known or shared by those dangling from those strings.

yesterday's X22 report said that Iraq has agreed to allow our troops into the country WITH IMMUNITY from their laws so I guess ISIS did their job!! If you remember right it wasn't so much that Obama chose to move out of the country as it was that Iraq wouldn't budge on the idea that our troops would be under their legal juristiction if those troops did anything illegally..
Now that ISIS has created chaos within the country I guess they are willing to budge! My guess is that ISIS will soon be making a quick retreat out of Iraq and on to the next target of the US..

originally posted by: dawnstar
yesterday's X22 report said that Iraq has agreed to allow our troops into the country WITH IMMUNITY from their laws so I guess ISIS did their job!! If you remember right it wasn't so much that Obama chose to move out of the country as it was that Iraq wouldn't budge on the idea that our troops would be under their legal juristiction if those troops did anything illegally..
Now that ISIS has created chaos within the country I guess they are willing to budge! My guess is that ISIS will soon be making a quick retreat out of Iraq and on to the next target of the US..

You think Iraq tells the US what to do? The US hand-picked the puppet leader of Iraq. It seems that ISIS is serving the interests of the US government in that the presence of ISIS results in the US getting to come in and do whatever it wants--then on to the next country where the US gets to do the same and so on. How convenient.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Backwards thinking creates fundamentalism, which creates the murder and bloodshed that religion is so infamous for. It is all related. With proper education in the sciences, people like this wouldn't exist to spread their hate. I

\l
What is backward thinking? Would you please explain? One atomic bomb killed about 66 thousand people in Hiroshima in 1945. Now was that fundamental Christianity or your science? Hum? In fact just when was this backward fundamental Christianity thinking invented? Who made the atomic bomb? I guess it had to be a dirty minded ole backward thinking Fundy.

a reply to: blackthorne So the leftest Pope the former bar bouncer thinks the Christian fundies are no better than isis.An old trick of the left moral equivalency . One group says peace on earth good will to men. The other says submit or die. The only non European pope should clean up the church instead of calling for the UN to tax people in the west. Where is his leadership? He's starting to sound like a community organizer.

"There's maybe a hundred people who hate The Catholic Church...but there's millions who hate what they falsely believe about The Catholic Church." Fulton Sheen

The level of ignorance about Catholics, that is seen today is astounding. The Truth will set you free...look into it.

Many zealots through the ages have kidnapped the name "Christian". Someone who does not act like, or adhere to the teachings of Jesus, is not a Christian.

Pope Francis is the vicar of Christ. "Peter, upon this rock, I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it". So, blather on, I ain't worried. We win. Always have. Always will.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Backwards thinking creates fundamentalism, which creates the murder and bloodshed that religion is so infamous for. It is all related. With proper education in the sciences, people like this wouldn't exist to spread their hate. I

\l
What is backward thinking? Would you please explain? One atomic bomb killed about 66 thousand people in Hiroshima in 1945. Now was that fundamental Christianity or your science? Hum? In fact just when was this backward fundamental Christianity thinking invented? Who made the atomic bomb? I guess it had to be a dirty minded ole backward thinking Fundy.

I call that an act of war. The war didn't start with the dropping of the bomb. It happened at the end after increasing hopelessness and desire to end the war. I'm not trying to justify its use, but pinning a single act (even a very devastating one) on either religion or science is dumb. War IS backwards thinking and that has existed with us since time immemorial.

I can tell you this though. Fundamentalism promotes unquestioning adherence to authority. Obey or else. So a fundamentalist would be more likely to go along with such an idea. Critical thought is necessary to rise above such barbarism, yet fundamentalism disdains critical thought.

a reply to: blackthorne

I should probably read all 5 pages of this thread before replying, but here goes:

I've stopped visiting ATS as frequently as I have in the past because of OP's like this. The Pope actually didn't say that Christian fundamentalists were no better than Isis.

A simple reading of the article would show this. Doing a small amount of research and finding other sources would support this. But it doesn't matter. If it supports the beliefs of the ATS member, up it goes. It works the other way to for people who hate the Pope and Catholicism. A headline says the Pope said something? Well, it must be true, it validates my worldview, I'm posting about it.

Eric

originally posted by: stosh64

Yet the Vatican is pushing for Chrislam. And everyone loves the Pope.

Was idiocy like this also predicted?

How, exactly, is the Pope pushing for Chrislam? Can you provide some actual quotes from the Pope that would back that up? And I'm not talking about someone's interpretation or opinion on what the Pope said, I'm talking about the Pope's own words.

I'm sure that you can provide that proof pretty easily, because if you can't you'd be bearing false witness, right?

Eric

He appears to be following Christ, but is massively hypocritical when you look at what he's saying versus what the Church is actually DOING.

a reply to: Ignatian

Pope Francis is the vicar of Christ. "Peter, upon this rock, I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it". So, blather on, I ain't worried. We win. Always have. Always will

So why were there 2 popes at one stage in your churchs history (1378 The Great Schism)
For 40 years god couldn't get it right? Or was it a false foundation to begin with?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

The KKK is packed to the scuppers with Christian fundamentalists.

If these people had their druthers there would be no black people alive in your country today. Except in chains, of course.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: TinfoilTP

The KKK is packed to the scuppers with Christian fundamentalists.

If these people had their druthers there would be no black people alive in your country today. Except in chains, of course.

That's right. The KKK refers to cross burnings as "cross raisings".

There is only one Pope, and that chair is filled by the Bishop of Rome. Of course, anyone can say anything they want, including calling themselves Pope, but that doesn't mean they are the Pope. There's been a few bad apples in that bunch through the centuries, but even the bad ones spoke infallibly on faith and morals. They never changed basic church beliefs. The worst Pope? How about the one who previously denied Jesus three times? :-) Does it get any worse? Jesus not only forgave him three times, but handed him The Keys (authority) to The Kingdom.

The Body of Christ? His church. The Catholic Church. I could also say "catholic" (small C)...meaning "universal", meaning all baptized Christians. Our Protestant brothers and sisters are also The Body of Christ. It's The Roman Catholic Church however that contains the fullness of truth. Everyone was a Catholic before the reformation. Heck, Luther was a Catholic priest :-)

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

a reply to: Ignatian

Dont avoid the question - there were 2 popes - its even in the catholic encyclopedia, feel free to look it up

Everyone was a Catholic before the reformation. Heck, Luther was a Catholic priest :-)

So the eastern Orthodox Church was also catholic? I think again you need to reread your own church history

Yes, the eastern orthodox church IS Catholic. Now, just as then. They acknowledge the Roman Pope as "first among equals".

I answered your question. There is and was only one Pope. His name is Francis. The successor to St. Peter. The 1300's? Lol. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. In other words: irrelevant.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I can tell you this though. Fundamentalism promotes unquestioning adherence to authority. Obey or else. So a fundamentalist would be more likely to go along with such an idea. Critical thought is necessary to rise above such barbarism, yet fundamentalism disdains critical thought.

I agree that war is not the answer to a 1st class civilization but war is not backward thinking when you are the victim. War then becomes a necessity which most do not understand. That was used for a comparative show that if killing is bad then science is not innocent by any means. You accused fundamental Christians as being backward thinking people compared to science. Like comparing apples to oranges is it not? Theology has never claimed anything but theology.

Most certainly all people have both unquestionable and questionable adherence to authority and it is not limited to just Fundamental Christians. You are within that very same restriction regardless of whether you are a critical thinker or a Fundy. All people are under that same hammer and as was said before you must have authority whether it is theological or physicality. Critical thinkers do not run the world and never have. Fundies are hated simply because they live against the secular majority in a theological environment. That is called freedom of choice. No! I am not a fundie nor do I belong to any religious group

Do you truly understand what a Fundamental Christian is? I truly doubt that you and almost all other Fundy bashers know what a Fundamental Christian truly is. Actually it started back in the early 1900’s with the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church members who drew up five basic fundamentals of what a true Christian should be in their opinion. This became adopted throughout the protestant denominations congregations in stages of time to the present day.

Biblical inspiration and the inerrancy of scripture as a result of this
Virgin birth of Jesus
Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
Bodily resurrection of Jesus
Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

Basically this is the foundation of Fundamental Christianity with some variance.

By the late 1910s, theological conservatives rallying around the Five Fundamentals came to be known as "fundamentalists". They reject the ideology of grouping Christianity, Islam, and Judaism into one Abrahamic family of religions. Apparently the pope embraces this ideology.

That is basically what a bad ole Fundy is. It's a matter of theology just the same as the pope is a matter of theology and in this country it is called freedom of religion and not freedom from religion.

originally posted by: Seede
I agree that war is not the answer to a 1st class civilization but war is not backward thinking when you are the victim. War then becomes a necessity which most do not understand. That was used for a comparative show that if killing is bad then science is not innocent by any means. You accused fundamental Christians as being backward thinking people compared to science. Like comparing apples to oranges is it not? Theology has never claimed anything but theology.

Defending oneself is fine and all, but someone has to be the aggressor in order for there to be a defender. Theology certainly does claim more than theology, especially when it tries to call itself science. And yes, if you look at that thread. THAT is backwards thinking.

Most certainly all people have both unquestionable and questionable adherence to authority and it is not limited to just Fundamental Christians. You are within that very same restriction regardless of whether you are a critical thinker or a Fundy. All people are under that same hammer and as was said before you must have authority whether it is theological or physicality. Critical thinkers do not run the world and never have. Fundies are hated simply because they live against the secular majority in a theological environment. That is called freedom of choice. No! I am not a fundie nor do I belong to any religious group

Just because you obey authority doesn't mean you obey it unquestionably. The idea here is that fundamentalism promotes UNQUESTIONING adherence to authority. With enough education, maybe we can get critical thinkers TO run the world. Just because it hasn't been done before, doesn't mean it can't happen in the future.

I didn't call you a fundie. And fundies are hated for more than the reasons you stated. Fundies are hated because they try to push their version of crazy onto everyone else. They try to interject their religion into government and try to dictate society's morals. If it was just a matter of belief, it would be a completely different story. But as we speak there are fundies lobbying the government to teach young earth creationism alongside evolution in science class like it is real science.

Do you truly understand what a Fundamental Christian is? I truly doubt that you and almost all other Fundy bashers know what a Fundamental Christian truly is. Actually it started back in the early 1900’s with the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church members who drew up five basic fundamentals of what a true Christian should be in their opinion. This became adopted throughout the protestant denominations congregations in stages of time to the present day.

Biblical inspiration and the inerrancy of scripture as a result of this
Virgin birth of Jesus
Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
Bodily resurrection of Jesus
Historical reality of the miracles of Jesus

Basically this is the foundation of Fundamental Christianity with some variance.

By the late 1910s, theological conservatives rallying around the Five Fundamentals came to be known as "fundamentalists". They reject the ideology of grouping Christianity, Islam, and Judaism into one Abrahamic family of religions. Apparently the pope embraces this ideology.

Actually I did know all this, but thanks for pointing that out. It proves my point even better. Their ideology isn't even an OLD ideology, but they pretend like their beliefs have always been the case. Denying that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all came from the same source, is denying reality. They all worship the same god with the same(ish) religious texts. And even before that, the Abrahamic religions all stole from older, pagan religions to complete their beliefs. Only the oldest religions in the world are the purest ones.

That is basically what a bad ole Fundy is. It's a matter of theology just the same as the pope is a matter of theology and in this country it is called freedom of religion and not freedom from religion.

Point out where I said that people weren't allowed to worship what they wanted to worship. I don't care what you worship, just don't push it onto me.