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Russia Sponsors UN Resolution Revoking Freedoms Of Speech, Assembly, And Association

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posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: DJW001



That's because it is happening.


It happens in your mind, as I have said many times before.


Did you simply not read my three posts, or are you in denial?


Let`s look at the reality...

Germany 20s/30s, Ukraine nowadays



- Nazis on the rise in both Germany back then and now in the Ukraine

- Germany got support from US by Henry Ford, IBM and Prescott Bush, and Ukraine now gets support from the US

- Russia is being threatened by them in WWII and now again


I don`t deny the same things are happening again, how about you ?




posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Let's look at what Germany did in the 1930's: it fomented rioting in neighboring states, then sent troops in to "protect" ethnic Germans. It staged a referendum in a neighboring country to unite it with Germany..., and yet you continue to deny that Putin is doing exactly the same thing now!



posted on Dec, 3 2014 @ 09:35 AM
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If you are just joining this thread, it is vital to go back and read from here.



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 05:45 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: DJW001

No need to dispute, just go on with explaining what you do.


Ad hom attacks are the crudest form of propaganda. Judging by the star your joke got, someone really likes ad hom attacks around here. We all know who, and documenting this misbehavior will begin soon enough.


Thats really shameful your showing what true ignorance is.




We all know who, and documenting this misbehavior will begin soon enough.

Your comical.

1.This site isn't a Pro NATO forum, Pro westren social club could say the same but this just exception cause i am getting tired of your same replies.

2.Just because this site is westren, users dont have the same opinions or ideas, this site is meant for research so far i haven't seen any grand research you have committed only with the exception of reposting of what the mainstream news media have reported or stated.



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 06:55 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter


Thats really shameful your showing what true ignorance is.


That's the only response you can think of? Calling me names again?


We all know who, and documenting this misbehavior will begin soon enough.

Your comical.


That's all you got? Ridicule? You have claimed that I am a propagandist, and that my agenda is transparent. Care to document it, or will you continue to hide behind insults and ridicule?


1.This site isn't a Pro NATO forum, Pro westren social club could say the same but this just exception cause i am getting tired of your same replies.


Neither is this a dedicated Russian propaganda site. If you cannot be bothered to engage in polite debate, or tolerate the presence of people who question the Russian party line,you may wish to go somewhere more welcoming. After all,if you keep posting the same blatant lies coupled with personal attacks, you're going to get the same sort of replies. If it's tiresome to you, try changing your tactics.


2.Just because this site is westren, users dont have the same opinions or ideas, this site is meant for research so far i haven't seen any grand research you have committed only with the exception of reposting of what the mainstream news media have reported or stated.


I don't expect everyone to have the same opinion; on the contrary, I welcome healthy debate.That's why I'm here. If you have information to share, by all means do so, but expect to have it questioned. If the source is unreliable, don't expect everyone to believe it. If you cannot provide a logical reason why your opinion or analysis is valid, don't expect anyone to accept it. Just be glad that a commitment to freedom of expression is one of the West's "decadent" principles. Not only does it allow you to voice your opinions, however narrow, but it demands that those of us who disagree with you tolerate your opinion and encourages us to embrace the challenge of debating it without recourse to personal animosity.

The reason you think I don't do any research is because you only haunt political threads that can be used to attack "the West." I never seem to encounter you on the science, technology, UFO, medical, philosophical or other forums where I actually prefer to spend my time. It is only Putin's aggression against a neighbor which I am inclined to favor that has politicized me so passionately. Even on these "geopolitical" threads I consistently condemn the neo-Cons and the lies they told that committed the US to a war that was every bit as illegal as the one Putin's lies have started in the Ukraine. In fact, there are numerous policies, both international and domestic, I vocally disagree with. You, on the other hand, never vary from the official Russian line.

You seem frustrated when others are allowed the same freedom of expression you are permitted to have here; it is no wonder you have no problem supporting a resolution that would impose fascistic censorship in the name of "protecting" people from fascism. Perceiving irony does not seem to be your strong suit.



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


- Nazis on the rise in both Germany back then and now in the Ukraine


Not true:


2014 elections: Losing support

In the late October 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election the party won constituency 6 seats; the party came 0,29% short to overcome the 5% threshold to win seats on the nationwide list.


en.wikipedia.org...

On the other hand:


The leader of Ukraine's Jewish communities has warned that Russian neo-Nazi organisations are increasingly active in the pro-Russian insurgency in east Ukraine.

Iosif Zisels, head of Vaad Ukraine, the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine, has said that that Russia is "infected with the ideas of revanchism and that is very closely linked to fascism".


www.ibtimes.co.uk...


- Germany got support from US by Henry Ford, IBM and Prescott Bush, and Ukraine now gets support from the US


Fascists in France are getting support from Russia.

www.lemonde.fr...

www.newsweek.com...


- Russia is being threatened by them in WWII and now again


Stalin signed a mutual "non-aggression pact" with Hitler, then promptly set about planning the Katyn Massacre. You really need to study some history if you are going to try to draw historical parallels.



I don`t deny the same things are happening again, how about you ?


Yet you still deny that Putin is following Hitler's "phony war" strategy.



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter


You surely remind me one of those similar posters i had my debates on the guardian whom were pro Syrian Rebel, Pro Libyan rebel and now pro Ukrankian government and Pro NATO stance, whom always try to deflect while they try to attack other posters for there stances on the issue that dont share the same stance as the pro Westren/Israeli marching band.


Funny... you support Syria when it kills civilians, but denounce Ukraine when it does the same.



Its not a lie that you support that the fascists, its clear the way you defended the fascists while you were denouncing this anti-Nazism bill that Russia created that makes me subject that you support the fascists if you truly dont support fascism.


I realize that English is not your first language, but this statement is virtually incomprehensible. I have never defended fascism or fascists. Just because you call the Kyiv government fascists doesn't make them fascist. On the other hand, state control of the media is fascist. Political censorship is fascist. Russia practices both, and wants to extend the practice to other nations.


You wouldn't make a claim by suggesting that this bill that Russia created is censorship bill in disguise, only someone whom supports the fascism ideology or its agenda would make such a claim.


Only a fascist supports censorship. Had you been educated in the West, you would have been able to read Voltaire,who famously said:



I despise Nazism, but depriving people, even Nazis, of fundamental human rights would make me just as bad as the Nazis.


Again even your in own post. Again you attack users whom dont share the same views as you do.

When Russian propagandists trowel on the "Nazi Kyiv Junta" calumny they are attempting to use emotion to hijack the discourse; a counter-balancing emotionally evocative image is in order.


Wrong; I attack the techniques they use, not the people themselves, just as I compare Putin's tactics to Hitler's, not his psychological make-up or political agenda.


The Nazi Kyiv Junta was proven itself when Fascist protesters back during the 2013/14 protests made it clear of how wide were the fascists. The majority of the Ukrankian minsters are all members to the fascist nationalist parties even there new security chief.


Even when I point out how self-defeating repeating "Nazi Kyiv Junta" is, you cannot stop yourself from using it! Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it true. You know that the extreme right wing nationalist hold only a tiny minority of seats and portfolios:

en.wikipedia.org...

Notice how I can link to sources that support my claims, yet you seldom can.



As for your claim on this post.


The second image was fabricated in order to provide "evidence" for Russia's claim that MH-17 was shot down by Ukrainian fighter jets. Since there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support this claim, other than contradictory testimony from self declared witnesses, the propaganda specialists in the Kremlin had to provide some. Seeing is believing.


There already is report of how there was a airspace activity during before MH-17 was shot down. As for the image this wasn't related to RT. It was picked by an Russian news channel.


Exactly my point! Russian news channels will air obvious frauds to support the Russian propaganda line. Common sense alone tells you that the odds of a passing spy satellite capturing an air to air missile in mid-flight are so long that the image is almost certainly fake.



Propagandists use similar techniques across various platforms; just as they provide only one point of view in traditional media, or at least distort the opposing points of view, so they attempt to control the discourse in interactive media, such as on social media or forums like this one.

You surely seem hellbent on attacking anyone whom dont share the same Ukrainian stance as you do thats not really surprising some Propagandists even on here are trained well.


Once again, I am not attacking my opponents, I am explaining the techniques that propagandists use. If you use those techniques, and I have amply demonstrated that you do, do not be surprised if people consider your posts to be propaganda.
edit on 8-12-2014 by DJW001 because: Edit to polish style.

edit on 8-12-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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Double post.
edit on 8-12-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

... you support Syria when it kills civilians

No doubt you are the same whom supports not only the Ukrankian westren NATO/McCain hand picked government but there is no doubt of your supports towards to the Syrian rebels.

Syria is the only nation that has being fighting agaisnt all Sunni Islamist groups while your American government has done nothing but the opposite.





I despise Nazism, but depriving them of fundamental human rights would make me just as bad as the Nazis.

Of course you do, thats why you made a thread on how you supported there by claiming that this Russia is a bill in disguise on censorship if you took a look at this Russian Bill that is anti-Nazism you would easily understand why countries voted in favor of it.

I am not surprised at all that America voted no on it, this shows the hypocrisy and ignorance of the American government your countries politics.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH where it applied. Or in your case as long as you favor our side that is.




I have never defended fascism or fascists. Just because you call the Kyiv government fascists doesn't make them fascist. On the other hand, state control of the media is fascist. Political censorship is fascist. Russia practices both, and wants to extend the practice toother nations.

Your quite comical when your defending the fascists.


Just because you call the Kyiv government fascists doesn't make them fascist
This post that shows you dont know anything about the Ukrankian history nor its history of the fascists.

The new Kyiv government has installed ministers even a police chief whom has a known history of supporting fascism yeah they are fascists.




Political censorship is fascist. Russia practices both, and wants to extend the practice toother nations.

This bill is anti-Nazism and Russia created this for a good reason as Nazism is spreading not only in Ukraine but Europe and other countries, when you claim that this Political censorship is fascist it shows that you are defending fascism.

Your worried about your fav little ideology being canned not only by Russia but others, Fascism is a raising and growing worry for Greeks.


I realize that English is not your first language
Oh look an ad hominem just when your running out of facts eh?



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

... you support Syria when it kills civilians

No doubt you are the same whom supports not only the Ukrankian westren NATO/McCain hand picked government but there is no doubt of your supports towards to the Syrian rebels.

Syria is the only nation that has being fighting agaisnt all Sunni Islamist groups while your American government has done nothing but the opposite.





I despise Nazism, but depriving them of fundamental human rights would make me just as bad as the Nazis.

Of course you do, thats why you made a thread on how you supported there by claiming that this Russia is a bill in disguise on censorship if you took a look at this Russian Bill that is anti-Nazism you would easily understand why countries voted in favor of it.

I am not surprised at all that America voted no on it, this shows the hypocrisy and ignorance of the American government your countries politics.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH where it applied. Or in your case as long as you favor our side that is.




I have never defended fascism or fascists. Just because you call the Kyiv government fascists doesn't make them fascist. On the other hand, state control of the media is fascist. Political censorship is fascist. Russia practices both, and wants to extend the practice toother nations.

Your quite comical when your defending the fascists.


Just because you call the Kyiv government fascists doesn't make them fascist
This post that shows you dont know anything about the Ukrankian history nor its history of the fascists.

The new Kyiv government has installed ministers even a police chief whom has a known history of supporting fascism yeah they are fascists.




Political censorship is fascist. Russia practices both, and wants to extend the practice toother nations.

This bill is anti-Nazism and Russia created this for a good reason as Nazism is spreading not only in Ukraine but Europe and other countries, when you claim that this Political censorship is fascist it shows that you are defending fascism.

Your worried about your fav little ideology being canned not only by Russia but others, Fascism is a raising and growing worry for Greeks.


edit on 8-12-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: DJW001


You seem frustrated when others are allowed the same freedom of expression


By your logic everyone here should be supporting the west and nato for the chaos that they have created not only in Ukraine but also in Libya and Iraq or elsewhere for that matter, no doubt i am quite postive the libyans are so happy to be enjoying these same freedoms of expression.



The reason you think I don't do any research is because you only haunt political threads that can be used to attack "the West." I never seem to encounter you on the science, technology, UFO, medical, philosophical or other forums where I actually prefer to spend my time.


Nice try with that one, you haven't done any research when it comes down to the matters of either the middle east or Ukraine the only thing you have being doing is re posting news articles by either NGO writers or those whom are in favor of having conflict both Iran or Russia.

I have being on the technology, UFO, medical forums, if you just take a moment and look at where i have posted my experiences and that other stuff.

It is only Putin's aggression against a neighbor which I am inclined to favor that has politicized me so passionately.
1.Your not Ukrankian.
2.The majority of Americans dont give a thing about Ukraine, the only reason that it has politicized you so much is because of these little things.

You either work in the government, or some higher job position whatever happens in Ukraine matters to you because of your job.

3.The only aggression comes from NATO, West and Kiev's onslaught of killing civilians in eastern ukraine all this to join the failing Euporean Union.

Even on these "geopolitical" threads I consistently condemn the neo-Cons
Saw you debating in other threads haven't seen you condemn the neo-Cons.
edit on 8-12-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien




You don`t even see the irony in that your own post was one long ad hom attack against posters who in your mind are pro-Russians...you can put lipstick on a pig, but it`s still is a pig.


And no matter how many times you say it...Russia didn't invade Ukraine, it doesn't make it true.

And do you really think your in a position to talk about someone and an ad hom attack against poster who don't see Russia as the world leader?


If Russia invaded Ukraine they would by now already be in Kiev with Tanks, Infantry guarding thats an invasion, You Americans are the only ones whom are known for proxy wars.



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

I am going to put this in a article in my blog. It seems those whom claim they arent Fascist have found a new way of defending that line.
The people that are against this resolution aren't anti-fascism. They're pro-freedom of speech.

I am quite positive the fascist party in Greece would have agree with you there.
edit on 8-12-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


- Nazis on the rise in both Germany back then and now in the Ukraine


Not true:


2014 elections: Losing support

In the late October 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election the party won constituency 6 seats; the party came 0,29% short to overcome the 5% threshold to win seats on the nationwide list.


en.wikipedia.org...

On the other hand:


The leader of Ukraine's Jewish communities has warned that Russian neo-Nazi organisations are increasingly active in the pro-Russian insurgency in east Ukraine.

Iosif Zisels, head of Vaad Ukraine, the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine, has said that that Russia is "infected with the ideas of revanchism and that is very closely linked to fascism".


www.ibtimes.co.uk...


- Germany got support from US by Henry Ford, IBM and Prescott Bush, and Ukraine now gets support from the US


Fascists in France are getting support from Russia.

www.lemonde.fr...

www.newsweek.com...


- Russia is being threatened by them in WWII and now again


Stalin signed a mutual "non-aggression pact" with Hitler, then promptly set about planning the Katyn Massacre. You really need to study some history if you are going to try to draw historical parallels.



I don`t deny the same things are happening again, how about you ?


Yet you still deny that Putin is following Hitler's "phony war" strategy.


newsweek and wikipedia are very reablie no doubt even on Syria and Libya

If you call those sources trusted and reablie then its not surprising why you believe them.


Russia is indeed being threatened, these last few NATO expansions have proven themselves. Each year NATO is surrounding Russia and while doing so starting proxy wars in the middle east.

You cant be claiming that your agaisnt the NeoCons on Syria while being Agaisnt Russia on Ukraine, whats happening in Ukraine is because of the results in Syria, your country leaders are like that of a child.
edit on 8-12-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter


... you support Syria when it kills civilians

No doubt you are the same whom supports not only the Ukrankian westren NATO/McCain hand picked government but there is no doubt of your supports towards to the Syrian rebels.


Although I think Assad is a fascist tyrant, that does not mean I have ever supported the idea of giving aid to the rebels; in fact I have always opposed it, precisely because it would fall into the hands of "Islamists." For example....


Syria is the only nation that has being fighting agaisnt all Sunni Islamist groups while your American government has done nothing but the opposite.


Actually, it is pretty much the entire Arab world that is fighting Assad. Only non-Arab states like Iran and Russia support him.


I despise Nazism, but depriving them of fundamental human rights would make me just as bad as the Nazis.

Of course you do, thats why you made a thread on how you supported there by claiming that this Russia is a bill in disguise on censorship if you took a look at this Russian Bill that is anti-Nazism you would easily understand why countries voted in favor of it.


Does that mean you disagree? It is okay to deprive people of their fundamental rights if they disagree with you?


I am not surprised at all that America voted no on it, this shows the hypocrisy and ignorance of the American government your countries politics.


Exactly the opposite. Freedom of expression is the first right listed in America's Bill of Rights; it would be hypocritical to support a resolution that would deprive others of that right.


FREEDOM OF SPEECH where it applied. Or in your case as long as you favor our side that is.


In case you haven't noticed, I have been defending your right to support the fascist governments in Syria and Russia.


I have never defended fascism or fascists. Just because you call the Kyiv government fascists doesn't make them fascist. On the other hand, state control of the media is fascist. Political censorship is fascist. Russia practices both, and wants to extend the practice toother nations.

Your quite comical when your defending the fascists.


Once again, I am not defending fascists, I am defending the right of individuals to express their political philosophy even when I disagree with it. To do otherwise would make me little better than the fascists.

[wuote]Just because you call the Kyiv government fascists doesn't make them fascist

This post that shows you dont know anything about the Ukrankian history nor its history of the fascists.

Once again you accuse me of being ignorant without providing any information that contradicts my stance. Please be specific; other than Ukrainians uniting with Germans to end the Soviet occupation and avenge Stalin's holomodor, what aspect of Ukrainian history do you feel is relevant?

[wuote]The new Kyiv government has installed ministers even a police chief whom has a known history of supporting fascism yeah they are fascists.

There are Communists in the Duma. Does this make Russia Communist?


Political censorship is fascist. Russia practices both, and wants to extend the practice toother nations.

This bill is anti-Nazism and Russia created this for a good reason as Nazism is spreading not only in Ukraine but Europe and other countries, when you claim that this Political censorship is fascist it shows that you are defending fascism.


Are you saying that censorship is not fascist? Placing the needs of the State above the rights of the individual is the very definition of fascism!


Your worried about your fav little ideology being canned not only by Russia but others, Fascism is a raising and growing worry for Greeks.


I am indeed worried that my favorite ideology-- Liberal Democracy-- is being canned by Russia and others in favor of 21st century "third way" fascism. Greece has swung between the extremes of Left and Right ever since it gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire. The swing toward "third way" fascism is coming from the same rejection of liberal democratic values caused by economic mismanagement that is creating support for Putin here on ATS.


I realize that English is not your first language

Oh look an ad hominem just when your running out of facts eh?


There's nothing wrong with not speaking English as your native language; I was trying to excuse the unintelligibility of your arguement.
edit on 8-12-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter


You Americans are the only ones whom are known for proxy wars.


Better do some research!



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Is that the best source? nothing like deflection.



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

Where are your comments on the American led government who`s doing this ?

You seem to be so against such things, where`s the outrage on your part about this ?

Ukraine Goes Full Orwell, Unleashes "Ministry Of Truth"

Source

This is as worse as it can get, and yet you remain dead silent on it ?



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: DJW001




I am indeed worried that my favorite ideology-- Liberal Democracy-- is being canned by Russia and others in favor of 21st century "third way" fascism. Greece has swung between the extremes of Left and Right ever since it gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire. The swing toward "third way" fascism is coming from the same rejection of liberal democratic values caused by economic mismanagement that is creating support for Putin here on ATS.

Another deflection.



I am indeed worried that my favorite ideology-- Liberal Democracy

Doubtful on that part.

Are you saying that censorship is not fascist? Placing the needs of the State above the rights of the individual is the very definition of fascism!

It seems you are getting desperate trying to paint this bill as an censorship in disguise, clearer you haven't the read bill.




There's nothing wrong with not speaking English as your native language; I was trying to excuse the unintelligibility of your arguement.

Another excuse for your attack.




[wuote]The new Kyiv government has installed ministers even a police chief whom has a known history of supporting fascism yeah they are fascists. There are Communists in the Duma. Does this make Russia Communist?


Nice try with the deflection but its clear you avoided my whole post by reflecting to your own as by suggesting that there are Communists in the Duma.

You seem to be getting desperate is that the best you got?





Exactly the opposite. Freedom of expression is the first right listed in America's Bill of Rights; it would be hypocritical to support a resolution that would deprive others of that right.


Just like on the guns issue i think the majority of Americans seem to have mistranslated the Bill of Rights i have read the bill of rights when it comes down to the bill of rights i believe some of you are mistranslating it even when it comes down to the guns issue.




Does that mean you disagree? It is okay to deprive people of their fundamental rights if they disagree with you?

Go read it again.

By the way another point Liberal Democracy is such great of example of Democracy just look at fine mess in Europe with Liberal Democracy.



posted on Dec, 8 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

Wow! You have deflected so much you have tied the thread in a knot. I will let everyone enjoy your post without comment. Oh, and I am one of the few contributors who has not only read the proposed resolution, I have cited it verbatim and linked to it. Where?

Here and here. You have written a great deal, but you have not been able to prove that the resolution does not say exactly what I say it does, because it does say exactly what I say it does.



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