The Fed Just Acknowledged Its Too Big To Jail Policy

a reply to: Phage

if the loans had been viable there would not have been any problem

That is the problem though, isn't it? It would seem that financial institutions were actively engaged in predatory lending practices specifically because they knew they could turn a profit either way.

It was a common practice long before the crash.

You mean before regulations on these practices were relaxed?

I had a couple of mortgages sold. I had nothing to do with it and all it meant to me was writing my check to a different bank.

So what is your position on the OP, semantics aside? Should "too big to fail" banks and the individuals that run them be subject to the same laws as the rest of us or not?

It seems to me like you might be a tad biased here, and your opinion might be swayed because you are worried the mobs might come for you.

originally posted by: Phage

but wasn't the financial crisis and the subsequent bailouts much more complex than an issue of mortgages?

a reply to: DeadSeraph
Somewhat, but it was the collapse of bad mortgage debt which precipitated it. Too many loans made to people who would never be able to make good on them.

It wasn't so much the subprime mortgages themselves that caused the problem, although they shouldn't have been granting them. The real big problem came when the big banks, who had been selling those mortgage backed securities, were called out by the investors after discovering those mortgage backed securities they had been sold were worse than junk. The whole time, those mortgage backed securities were being given high ratings by the big ratings agencies to make them look attractive.
Thus, when the scam was uncovered and the investors started demanding their money back, the big banks didn't have the assets to cover the scams. Hence the bailouts and the taxpayers being left holding the bill.

It was all a big scam. The banks knew it, the governments knew it, but the hold the banks have over us all, as well as their guaranteed "get out of jail free cards". ensured that none of those involved would ever see the inside of a jail cell, let alone a holding cell pending interview.
Even when found to be laundering $Billions in drug money for the drug cartels, they still get to just pay a fine - without ever having to admit to any wrongdoing - and walk away unscathed. Hell, even the fines that are handed down to them are often, for the most part, tax deductible!

I wrote an email last week to my local MP asking for him to explain the government line on possible prosecution, after the latest scandal, the rigging of the FOREX - foreign exchange markets.
I made the point that, by definition, the actions of the banks, in colluding to rig these markets, is Organised Crime on a massive scale. As such, the penalties for organised crime are supposed to be harsh prison sentences and asset seizure. Instead, what we have seen so far is the EU regulators demanding a capping of banker bonuses to 200% of salary, and the British government is even pushing back against this ridiculously small measure. No criminal investigations, no arrests of those directly involved or the execs who also massively profited, just another fine to pay and then it's off to the club for a large one and to lobby the politicians for even less regulation.

The other point I made in the letter is that, every time harsh measure and penalties are brought up, the government says we must negotiate and treat them with kid gloves, or all that "talent" will leave the city of London and go elsewhere. In other words, forgive and ignore the criminality, fraud and organised crime, and allow the city to carry on unmolested.

Until such time as they are made to pay, and harshly, we'll all be at the mercy of the bankers as their actions not only affect the investors they are trying to rip off, but entire nations and, given the globalisation, the entire global economy.

Bit of a long winded rant I'm afraid, but it's become one of those things that really makes my blood boil.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

That is the problem though, isn't it? It would seem that financial institutions were actively engaged in predatory lending practices specifically because they knew they could turn a profit either way.

Yup.

You mean before regulations on these practices were relaxed?

No. Trading of mortgage loans occurred before that. It was the relaxation of the rules on issuing loans that was the root problem.

So what is your position on the OP, semantics aside? Should "too big to fail" banks and the individuals that run them be subject to the same laws as the rest of us or not?

I have stated my position. To reiterate; I think that if anyone can be found involved in committing a crime they should be prosecuted for it. Well, this sort of crime.

It seems to me like you might be a tad biased here, and your opinion might be swayed because you are worried the mobs might come for you.

Heh. Nah. I don't think the mobs pay much attention to ATS.

a reply to: Phage

Thanks for the clarification. You are a much more likeable guy when you take the time to explain things to simpletons like me

a reply to: DeadSeraph
Maybe the whiskey helps.

But really, as rare as it is, when some takes the "bait" and starts really thinking about the questions, it's a lot more satisfying. For all parties.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Yes! With extreme prejudice. Since the economists who pull the strings effect millions, if not billions, of people, personally I think they should be tried for crimes against humanity and if found guilty, summarily executed. Watch the value of rope rise ;-)

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Phage

A dude

And I understood your point with the word gay.. I was just poking fun

a reply to: Phage

Very well put.

You could write down every secret ever comepletely spelled out (intact it all is) for someone but it still doesn't have as nearly a resounding effect as when someone reads that one small little snippet that makes all the pieces fall into place.. Self realization is a very powerful learning tool and if you can inspire that in others, good job.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

You're damn right we should prosecute and jail...all the way to the top. All the way to the Rockefellers if you ask me.

The federal government until recently shielded big banks from criminal prosecution out of concern that convictions may damage the financial system,

Wake up rocket surgeon.....the financial system has been damaged for quite sometime...and you guys are the reason for it. If its to get better...YOU will have to be the cancer that is routed out.

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: AlaskanDad

Yes, we should prosecute! We should take lessons from Iceland and deal with these criminals. This part of your quote, that says they have not been prosecuted because of:

"...concern that convictions may damage the financial system..."

...is just ludicrous. It is THEY who are damaging the financial system, and this is the very reason they need to be held accountable and punished!

What Iceland did was a marvel in todays corrupt world, if only the big countries could learn from it!

a reply to: Phage

I don't know, maybe because it's the moral thing to do.

I'v heard the argument that the banking crisis is actually the fault of those who took out loans they could never pay back. Some make the argument that the greed of those who wanted a home of their own was the real culprit.

I think there was more than enough blame to go around. Many of the people who qualified for those variable interest, high interest, interest only, et. al. type loans weren't able to get loans before that time because of their precarious financial status. Their financial condition was partly due to the fact that they didn't understand the complexities of financial management. To believe they were suddenly able to navigate that somewhat complex field just because lending practices were changed is not logical.

I look at this episode as a confidence game. When a conman tricks a mark into stealing their money because they appeal to their greed, the mark is somewhat responsible. But the con man is the main culprit. Law enforcement goes after the con, not the mark.

In the information presented in the OP, the banksters were clearly perpetuating illegal activity. In fact, as I understand it, there is ample evidence that a great deal of illegal activity was taking place. The biggest problem is that the government purposely turned a blind eye to those illegal activities.

In those few cases where the activity of the banksters didn't directly violate any laws, it was clearly unethical. And the end result was a financial crisis the likes of which had not been seen since the Great Depression. Given that final outcome it's difficult for me to believe that in all of that unethical behavior that laws were not broken.

I simply do not accept that the so-called Great Recession is the fault of millions of people who received loans that shouldn't have. And if it was the fault of this financially naive group of people, then the government failed them. One of the government's primary duties is to protect those who cannot protect themselves. But the US government has taken little action to ensure that a great financial collapse of similar magnitude won't happen again.

Like I said, there's plenty of blame to spread around.


dex

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Do you think we should prosecute bankers, should they go to prison?

Of course, without accountability that just gives the whole system the green light to break the law and abuse more power. Our entire monetary , justice system is under siege by gangsters in suit and ties. The excuse that it may damage the financial system is a cop out besides the entire system in itself is broken. So it is not a matter of concern for this monetary system but in fact politicians being bought by the lot and being in the back pocket of the bankers. They had JFK whacked for Christ sake after signing executive order 11110 and everyone knows it. They pull Obama's strings and every POTUS since has been scared to death and forced to comply.

The Fed ( the Jeckyl Island Club ) needs to end period, it is a privatized criminal corporation that has usurped our entire government and orchestrated all these wars behind the curtain with absolute impunity. Abolish the Fed , Rid the pestilence of the Rothchild family from this planet and we just might have a shot at taking this planet back and returning it to the people. You remove the head the body dies with it. Meaning the corruption will be in a state of disarray once the blood money stops flowing.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: stirling

Interest bearing loans should be considered usury.....

Why?
Why would should I loan you money (capital) which could be earning me money (investment), for free?

Umm compound interest and up to 29% APR not too excessive right?

If the only people who have the power to do something simply ignore it then we are already screwed. This is a case of Cops protecting criminals on the largest scale. If you take a look at the issues that politicians run on these days you realize we are being treated like suckers. I bet the biggest dangers to our country are things we don't even truly understand because truth has been suppressed, and mis-direction has become the easiest game in town.

Bottom Line: They are all complicate in this huge conspiracy. bankers are as untouchable as ever. politicians are as corrupted as ever. It's the reason the middle class has been liquidated, and the richest of all are pulling away faster then ever. It will hurt every American in ways we can't see, but the quicker the facade crumbles for all to see the better. You have to admit there is a problem before you can fix it. People will admit it when they see it.

a reply to: Astyanax

I thibk one of the causes of inflation is the injection of new money on the market, fractional reserve banking and all. You know borrowing money you dont really have because there is nothing to back it up anymore. So, more money is created because of fractional reserve banking and intrrest rates. The interest rate applied on a sum generates an extra, this portion doesnt even exist so this creates new money. Did i mention the money was all backed up by baloney sandwiches :p.

You see how inflation happens? The very system calls for it and this just drives dept.

Another facet is war. After you country is destroyed by war, the banks come in to lend you money, buy up business and assets. Kind of convinient and all since banks finance war and can expand its empire with usuery.

The people who dont see this need to look a little harder. Banks spend so much to make you feel good while they laugh all the way to the bank, but they"re IN the bank.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: stirling

Interest bearing loans should be considered usury.....

Why?
Why would should I loan you money (capital) which could be earning me money (investment), for free?

Fees are fine, interest is not. If lenders were limited to collecting fees they would be much more limited in how much they lend out and we would not be in the situation where market prices are not based on what people can afford to save, but instead on how much they can borrow.

Now consider the fact that if every dollar in existence is leant to a borrower at interest then it would be impossible or at least unwise to pay off all the debt. Even of you could, there would still be interest owing and no money in existence to pay it. Basically under interest barring loans, poverty and foreclosure is inevitable and actually required in order for some to gain assets and stay in the black.

I hope your not looking for a leg to stand on while you defend banks controlling the distribution of money and charging interest for it... you will never find one that a human would understand.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: stirling

Interest bearing loans should be considered usury.....

Why?
Why would should I loan you money (capital) which could be earning me money (investment), for free?

Are you serious? The money they loan out doesn't exist in the first place, they make it up out of thin air. And the only thing that is the real value is the idiots sweat equity that signed the indentured, opps mortgage.

Here is a great video that tells all the facts, and they are solid facts too.

Not only should they be jailed, they should be burnt at the stake like a witch for ruining the lives of millions of people for their own selfish monetary gains. I just can't imgaine being a person that's already rich wanting more wealth than they'd ever use in 10 lifetimes. I mean how freaking evil are these sacks of shhh? I despise them all and hope one day soon they will meet their maker and he will dull out the punishment they deserve.

originally posted by: Phage

My mortgage loan is a part of my investments. My property is valuable and is gaining value.

Unfortunately most property is not an asset, but a liability.

We pay taxes, insurance, upkeep and of course the mortgage payment, unless the property produces money monthly from rent it's always a negative number and considered a liability.

The only type of property that is an asset is a property that produces an income.

Properties that people consider as appreciating, but are in reality liabilities are financially delusional, that was proven by the last crash in housing values. It's a game the bankers love for people to buy into.

Rental incomes, hotels, or any type of building that produces more income, than it consumes is a true liability.