Pakistan mob kills Christian couple over 'blasphemy'

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

What is even scarier is that this is happening in a nation with nuclear weapons.

Pakistan being a nuclear power has always been a concern, that's why the West has mainly supported whoever has been in power, including military junta.

If the extremists get their hands on them, well to be honest, the consequences are not worth even thinking about I would suggest.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: 727Sky

Religious dogma and blind faith in any sort of god should have been beaten to death instead.

Horrible event and it just shows what fundamentalism does, in it's own raw form.

This seems like a double standard. If atheists formed the majority of the earths people, would you advocate beating the religious to death because they don't see things YOUR way? That sounds like what you are saying. Could you clarify?

Doesn't that put you on the same level as the idiots who committed this heinous crime in the first place?

Dogmatism is not a person. Fundamentalism is not a person. Religion is not a person. Blind faith is not a person.

Where do you get the idea that I'm advocating beating people to death?

Had I said "Fundamentalists and dogmatists" then I can see where you could come up with that idea.

originally posted by: MysterX

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: 727Sky

Religious dogma and blind faith in any sort of god should have been beaten to death instead.

Horrible event and it just shows what fundamentalism does, in it's own raw form.

Ironic that religion is supposed to be a tool to help civilise and create spiritually mature people isn't it.

I often wonder if it's a chicken and egg thing...would these people be more idiotic and bestial with or without religion?

And question whether religion acts as a trigger for these instances of pathetic violence, or as a brake that tempers the levels of violence that might otherwise occur, perhaps using territorial disputes or indeed any other excuse as a motivator rather than religion?

If religion is actually tempering and not encouraging the violence, i'd hate to see the level of barbarity of these people without religion as a brake.

Religion is a tool of control, nothing more or less.

I have no problems with spirituality, but religion seeks to claim that as it's right as well.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Well, that is why I asked for clarification on what you were trying to say.

Religious dogma and blind faith in any sort of god should have been beaten to death instead.

I realize that Dogma, Fundamentalism, and Religions are not living beings, which is sort of why I didn't understand what you were trying to imply, since you suggested they should be beaten to death.

At any rate, I think I understand what you were trying to communicate a little better now. But the question remains: If you advocate banning anothers beliefs because they run contrary to your own, aren't you exhibiting the same behavior these extremists do?

Cobaltic1978 posed an interesting question (that I had no sufficient answer for). What is the solution? I can honestly admit I don't have one, and I don't think that banning religion or attempting to stamp it out would work. In my opinion, it would just have the opposite effect, and piss off more people.

As others have pointed out, many of the folks in this part of the world seem to be stuck in the dark ages. How do you bring them out of it? If you do it at the point of a gun, you are no better than they are. So how do you think it could ever work peacefully?

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I also know that Pakistan would supply Saudi immediately with nuclear weapons if she wanted them which makes Pakistan one of the most dangerous countries in the world.

What bothers me though is that these are the people who seem to be migrating into my country with their backwards ideas, low moral standards and wanting sharia law to come with them. I just throw my hands up in horror about who we let in and what their ideology is today.

Once again we see the Religion of Peace at work.

I really believe that this type of event should get MSM attention.

That way people will know more about Islam.

OP you should know reporting Christian victims is a huge no no.

Now if they were a Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, atheist couple we'd have internet petitions, memes, and Jon Stewart would have a coronary "schooling" us.

a reply to: 727Sky
I sincerely hate it, this couple was murdered for their faith, rather than an actual crime they committed. At least that's the impression I'm getting. At the same time, I have to ask, what the hell are they doing there if they are xtian? I understand there are those who converted, and may not be able to leave due to finances, or some other legitimate reason. But those who don't have to be there, know they aren't welcome, and yet they go there any way. How much sense does that make? If you go there, knowing that death is possible...

a reply to: 727Sky

Honestly, a little machine-gun fire and the crowd would disperse. Some of these police need to grow some balls. Atrocities like this happen all the time in the ME, however, because it happens to Christians most often, it is largely overlooked. Check out shoebat.com and have a taste of all the violence that Muslims commit against non-Muslims.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: 727Sky
I sincerely hate it, this couple was murdered for their faith, rather than an actual crime they committed. At least that's the impression I'm getting. At the same time, I have to ask, what the hell are they doing there if they are xtian? I understand there are those who converted, and may not be able to leave due to finances, or some other legitimate reason. But those who don't have to be there, know they aren't welcome, and yet they go there any way. How much sense does that make? If you go there, knowing that death is possible...

What makes you think the victims of these attacks were immigrants? All indications are that they were local pakistani Christians. There ARE minority Christians that are born in predominantly muslim nations. What are they supposed to do if they are too poor to leave? Convert or die?

BUT MODERATES ____________.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Well, that is why I asked for clarification on what you were trying to say.

Religious dogma and blind faith in any sort of god should have been beaten to death instead.

I realize that Dogma, Fundamentalism, and Religions are not living beings, which is sort of why I didn't understand what you were trying to imply, since you suggested they should be beaten to death.

At any rate, I think I understand what you were trying to communicate a little better now. But the question remains: If you advocate banning anothers beliefs because they run contrary to your own, aren't you exhibiting the same behavior these extremists do?

I tend to engage in metaphor. Honestly I thought you were just being difficult, but I understand your point now.

Cobaltic1978 posed an interesting question (that I had no sufficient answer for). What is the solution? I can honestly admit I don't have one, and I don't think that banning religion or attempting to stamp it out would work. In my opinion, it would just have the opposite effect, and piss off more people.

As others have pointed out, many of the folks in this part of the world seem to be stuck in the dark ages. How do you bring them out of it? If you do it at the point of a gun, you are no better than they are. So how do you think it could ever work peacefully?

Again, in a perfect world beliefs would be personalized, not externalized. However, the current world meme seems to be proselytization and exclusivity. (ie: this is my belief, you should convert, it's good for you and if you don't there will be pain [hell, death,

How to solve it? It will never be solved. There seems to be an intrinsic need in some humans to exhibit control and influence (power) on others. This I will never understand. If it causes no harm, then it should be allowed.

In the west, especially in the UK and other open minded countries, where muslims are welcomed to live and get social security, we think of ourselves as understanding and liberal. Which of coursewe are.
However what seems to be ignored is that to muslims, especially from war torn countries or less developed countries, these traits of understanding and being accepting [to an extend that we change our own traditions n order not to offense] is not seen as noble but as naive.

We are taken for mugs by these people.
Also islam is not a religion that was developed to bring peace or mental enlightenment but a handbook, written by a warrior that incites believers to fight until islam rules the world. It is in every true muslims mind the end outcome. This is described as not only to do this by outright violence but slowly, from within.

I am extremely worried about the amount of muslims in europe and everywhere else and the countries that take them in being so very understanding of their belief.
We are causing our own downfall by not showing a bit of spine to these people. I don't mean violence or nastiness but staying true to our own traditions without fearing to offend these 'guests'.
By asking them to integrate and learn our languages, by showing that they accept the ways of the countries they are now living in.

Strangely enough, I have the feeling if we had some balls and showed some integrity, their opinion of us would actually go up rather than down. They think we are wet blankets and at the moment they are so right!

originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: 727Sky
I sincerely hate it, this couple was murdered for their faith, rather than an actual crime they committed. At least that's the impression I'm getting. At the same time, I have to ask, what the hell are they doing there if they are xtian? I understand there are those who converted, and may not be able to leave due to finances, or some other legitimate reason. But those who don't have to be there, know they aren't welcome, and yet they go there any way. How much sense does that make? If you go there, knowing that death is possible...

What makes you think the victims of these attacks were immigrants? All indications are that they were local pakistani Christians. There ARE minority Christians that are born in predominantly muslim nations. What are they supposed to do if they are too poor to leave? Convert or die?

You might want to re-read my post. I covered this, and said I understood some couldn't leave due to extenuating circumstances.

Whats the MEME being pushed here? If your a christian in a muslim country you should move. If your muslim and were treated in this manner in a christian country its a travesty