woman hears over 100 cat calls while walking through nyc

originally posted by: Rainbowresidue
I just don't understand why men do it.
Is it a lack of self control?
Do they enjoy making women feel uncomfortable?

The only time I wear something more "sexy" is when I go out with my husband.
When I'm walking alone to the supermarket , etc I dress plain and comfortable: usually jeans and t-shirt, or jogging suit.

I don't seek attention. I don't want men calling to me, and I especially hate the up and down stares, that makes me feel even more uncomfortable.


Yes, I've been whistled at, cat called, even followed in the past, when I never dress sexy doing errands, and most of the times don't even wear make up.

I have seen some very good looking men walking on the street, but never felt the unstoppable urge to whistle at them or say something to them.

Now please don't attack me for this, I'm just going to give my own personal opinion here.

I think men who do this aren't stupid. They know it makes us feel uncomfortable, they can even see it on our faces....they just don't care.

Once a guy said something to me, while my husband was only 2 steps behind me, because he was sending a text message. My husband walked up to the guy and asked him : "What do you want from my wife?"


The guy apologized and moved on.

I agree with you. Men absolutely know that it makes women uncomfortable and that is precisely why they do it. They feel entitled to exert power over women and, were it not for the law, these same men would likely do worse. You can see it in their comments which can be summarized as "We're entitled" ,"women ask for it", "women like it" and "women deserve it". Those are the same excuses used to justify a very serious crime perpetrated against women.

No, it's not about lack of self control. That would imply that men can not control themselves from doing it and that is absolutely not true.

originally posted by: signalfire
There's a point here the men are missing. If every few minutes as you're walking down the street minding your own business, strangers are calling out to you, ordering you to 'SMILE!' or worse yet, FOLLOWING YOU FOR SEVERAL MINUTES, you are never left alone to have your own thoughts unhampered in your own mind... you're literally being mentally accosted over and over again, with the attendant adrenaline rush and worry about something escalating into a physical confrontation.

It's exhausting.

Every one of these men was being rude, aggressive, demeaning and threatening.

This is illegal behavior, but as a woman you can't complain about it, there's no point because nothing will be done.

I was literally expecting and hoping that she would have peppersprayed at least two of those idiots; the one who followed her and the 'I'm too ugly for you' jackass. They both deserved it. Not that it would have taught them anything, they were a tad too dense for that, but at least she would have been empowered by it.

Men hide behind this 'oh you're beautiful I can't help myself' routine but you don't yell at beautiful paintings in the museum or a lovely sunset.

The truth of the matter is that your visual cortex is hooked right into your libido and genitals, and when you see a sexual object your response is instantaneous; we get that, or at least women do after some experience; YOUNG WOMEN DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS, EXCEPT THE ONES WHO HAVE BEEN SEXUALIZED EARLY, USUALLY BY ABUSE; the physiological reason for your response shouldn't become someone else's problem, especially not when it's threatening and when a goodly percentage of women are raped during their lifetimes. Women are wearing what they're wearing because they want to, not to get your attention; there was nothing exceptional about that girl's dress given modern standards, and women in burkas have been raped with much the same excuse; 'she was asking for it.'

Notice that no one apparently yelled at her when the one idiot was following along beside here as if he 'owned' her... why is that? Why do you pseudo-men not do this behavior when a woman is with another man? Because you know you're being aggressive and you know you risk a physical confrontation with the man in this instance, don't you?

And last but not least, just to prove this is aggression and harassment and not 'friendly' is the ease there would be to take the same video but of an unattractive woman or an older woman and look at what happens then... it's as if you think you have the right to announce our 'score' to the world, on what effect we have on your personal visual cortex. Well, y'know what guys? Most of you are average to ugly, and if you want to get laid once in a while in your pitiful little lives, try acting like a gentleman. And maybe get a job or make yourselves useful instead of hanging out on city streets doing utterly nothing with yourselves.

Real men don't act like this.

Men do get that it's harassment. THAT is the reason they do it. These are the same kind of men who cop a feel on a crowded bus or make lewd suggestions to women. They get off on making women feel uncomfortable and afraid. Abuse, including rape, is not about sex. It's about power and control. Cat-calling and following women is also about power and control. These cat-callers are inadequate men who are showing off for their male companions how they can frighten and intimidate women.

originally posted by: signalfire
a reply to: FlySolo

I'll ignore your rude 'get over yourself' comments to tell you a little story.

I was 19 years old (five foot tall) and working in an aquarium store; my daily outfit was overalls and a loose fitting sweater, because I got messy cleaning fishtanks and truth be told, I'm not exactly a fashion plate on the best of days.

One night walking home from work, 6:30 pm in the wintertime, dark already; a van pulls up alongside me and the driver sweetly cajoles me to 'get into the van, c'mon, I'll give you a ride'... I glare at him and keep going, ignoring him for a full nervewracking minute or two before he finally sped off.

Next night, he drives by swerving up onto the sidewalk from behind where I'm walking, shouting obscenities. Scared the crap out of me.

A few nights later, I'm taking my usual route home and didn't notice the same van parked along the sidewalk in an area where I couldn't have crossed the street to avoid it, and there was little room between the street and the houses; he jumps out of his car, GRABS MY ARM AND TRIES TO PULL ME INTO THE VAN. He was a good six foot tall and 200 lbs to my 5 foot tall, 100 lbs.

I pulled out the bowie knife I kept in the back upper leg section of the overalls, (in the handy-dandy pocket there) and slice at him; across his arm that was holding my arm, across his chest and as far as it felt, right through his winter jacket. He let go.

Then I ran like hell. Back then, I could run.

I have no idea what happened to this guy and I don't care. I hope he bled to death.

But if I hadn't have been armed, I would likely be a statistic right now.

So take your 'women are emotional, men are visual' crap and shove it.

The truth of the matter is, ALL THE MEN on this thread and every other one I've seen are being the emotional ones; you think YOUR emotions preclude someone else's rights to feel safe.

Get over yourselves and grow up.

Well said!

a reply to: signalfire
You're the only person in the world that disagrees men are visual and women are ruled by emotions. Everyone knows this and by telling me to grow up only proves my point. don't get mad about it, it just is that way and you know it.

You know what? As the viewer, to me the woman in the vid comes off as a rude royal rhymes-with-witch. I wonder how many people who thought they were paying a common greeting thought the same? I at least reciprocate good mornings/afternoons/evenings when I hear them, and I'm not a social person by any means -- I really detest being bothered by strangers in public. But this was just putting RUDE on a pedestal. Excuse me, lady, you couldn't be bothered to say Good Evening back to the person passing you? WTH? And they say men are the reason manners are dying out? Nice example you're leading by there

This video wasn't really enlightening in the manner they wanted. It's showing a pretty passive/aggressive way of going about interactions. Ignoring everyone is such a blanket approach, all it does it mark you as an icy person. Now, if she'd learn a facial expression other than a downward directed scowl, she might be able to communicate "nice try, but go away" better.

originally posted by: Nyiah
You know what? As the viewer, to me the woman in the vid comes off as a rude royal rhymes-with-witch. I wonder how many people who thought they were paying a common greeting thought the same? I at least reciprocate good mornings/afternoons/evenings when I hear them, and I'm not a social person by any means -- I really detest being bothered by strangers in public. But this was just putting RUDE on a pedestal. Excuse me, lady, you couldn't be bothered to say Good Evening back to the person passing you? WTH? And they say men are the reason manners are dying out? Nice example you're leading by there

This video wasn't really enlightening in the manner they wanted. It's showing a pretty passive/aggressive way of going about interactions. Ignoring everyone is such a blanket approach, all it does it mark you as an icy person. Now, if she'd learn a facial expression other than a downward directed scowl, she might be able to communicate "nice try, but go away" better.

I saw an interview with her the day after the video came out. She said, when she's in a social mood, out to a pub or a coffee shop or whatever, she smiles, holds her shoulders high and engages the people she comes across. She's actually been known to smile at strangers and say hi.

FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS VIDEO, she specifically walked with her shoulders down, face blank. Even then, people still felt within their rights to yell at her, order her to SMILE! (or what, pray tell) and follow her for blocks.

She wasn't being a bitch, she was TRYING TO BE LEFT ALONE.

Get it?

a reply to: Nyiah

Obviously. Real science would find actual controls to measure against, create a baselines of reasonable interactions, etc. This...its a hit piece with a preordained message.

Have this same lady walk down the street in my hometown, and no one would "cat call" her. In my entire life living here I have never seen that kind of behavior. It may happen in the bigger cities like Dallas, or Houston. But in my many years working in those larger cities, I have never seen it. Maybe the look up/down thing, but not overt vocal stuff. It just isn't something I have ever seen, outside of high school kids anyway.

Not a single man I know behaves like that.

The worst part about this is, it is positioned as an "either/or" scenario. Its zero sum thinking in action. Either you agree that she was wrongfully harassed (and accept all the connotations that go along with the intent of the people producing the video), or your are a sexist, apologist, etc.

Its the whole "is for the children" thing all over again.

Then again, maybe thats the idea. I should just ignore it all together. I don't behave that way, and can only control me.

originally posted by: Nyiah
You know what? As the viewer, to me the woman in the vid comes off as a rude royal rhymes-with-witch. I wonder how many people who thought they were paying a common greeting thought the same? I at least reciprocate good mornings/afternoons/evenings when I hear them, and I'm not a social person by any means -- I really detest being bothered by strangers in public. But this was just putting RUDE on a pedestal. Excuse me, lady, you couldn't be bothered to say Good Evening back to the person passing you? WTH? And they say men are the reason manners are dying out? Nice example you're leading by there

This video wasn't really enlightening in the manner they wanted. It's showing a pretty passive/aggressive way of going about interactions. Ignoring everyone is such a blanket approach, all it does it mark you as an icy person. Now, if she'd learn a facial expression other than a downward directed scowl, she might be able to communicate "nice try, but go away" better.

It's interesting that you chose a gender-based epithet to describe her. It appears that you've been well indoctrinated. Check back in 20 years and tell us how well that's working for you. You truly do not get it.

originally posted by: signalfire

originally posted by: Nyiah
You know what? As the viewer, to me the woman in the vid comes off as a rude royal rhymes-with-witch. I wonder how many people who thought they were paying a common greeting thought the same? I at least reciprocate good mornings/afternoons/evenings when I hear them, and I'm not a social person by any means -- I really detest being bothered by strangers in public. But this was just putting RUDE on a pedestal. Excuse me, lady, you couldn't be bothered to say Good Evening back to the person passing you? WTH? And they say men are the reason manners are dying out? Nice example you're leading by there

This video wasn't really enlightening in the manner they wanted. It's showing a pretty passive/aggressive way of going about interactions. Ignoring everyone is such a blanket approach, all it does it mark you as an icy person. Now, if she'd learn a facial expression other than a downward directed scowl, she might be able to communicate "nice try, but go away" better.

I saw an interview with her the day after the video came out. She said, when she's in a social mood, out to a pub or a coffee shop or whatever, she smiles, holds her shoulders high and engages the people she comes across. She's actually been known to smile at strangers and say hi.

FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS VIDEO, she specifically walked with her shoulders down, face blank. Even then, people still felt within their rights to yell at her, order her to SMILE! (or what, pray tell) and follow her for blocks.

She wasn't being a bitch, she was TRYING TO BE LEFT ALONE.

Get it?

Don't you know that women are always supposed to have a smile on their faces and be receptive to men and at their beck and call? It's their duty. Sarcasm intended.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Nyiah

Obviously. Real science would find actual controls to measure against, create a baselines of reasonable interactions, etc. This...its a hit piece with a preordained message.

Have this same lady walk down the street in my hometown, and no one would "cat call" her. In my entire life living here I have never seen that kind of behavior. It may happen in the bigger cities like Dallas, or Houston. But in my many years working in those larger cities, I have never seen it. Maybe the look up/down thing, but not overt vocal stuff. It just isn't something I have ever seen, outside of high school kids anyway.

Not a single man I know behaves like that.

The worst part about this is, it is positioned as an "either/or" scenario. Its zero sum thinking in action. Either you agree that she was wrongfully harassed (and accept all the connotations that go along with the intent of the people producing the video), or your are a sexist, apologist, etc.

Its the whole "is for the children" thing all over again.

Then again, maybe thats the idea. I should just ignore it all together. I don't behave that way, and can only control me.

You don't realize that the "look up and down thing" is offensive? Yes, I noticed that you said you don't do any of this but you seemed to suggest that other men doing the "look up and down thing" was no big deal. Before someone comments, I didn't imply that people don't normally notice and even unobtrusively assess the opposite gender but the "look up and down thing" is very different.

I'm beginning to notice that the whole gender debate seems to be one of the most if not the most divisive polarizing issues of the day.

Especially online people will rabidly and irrationally defend their own gender if they perceive it as under attack. Women especially will gang up on a poster if they didn't like his input. Usually involving comments like 'Grow up' or 'I bet you don't get laid much.'

a reply to: Tangerine

Looking up/down...i can see how it would be offensive. There is a fine line between leering like a predator, and having a quick glance.

What you cannot do is expect millenia of social conditioning built into the mating ritual to be shut down because of modern feminism. Potential partners may/may not realize that the persont hey see as a potential partner aren't considering themselves a potential partner.

If the worst that happens to anyone is that they get "checked out", in the appropriate environment (i.e., not at work), it seems par for the course in human interpersonal engagement.

a reply to: Tangerine

Fine, then. She was an asshole to the polite people. I could care less what "gender-based epithet" is used, the point is still the same. She acted in a way completely uncalled for towards people who were not cat-calling at all, and I watched the stupid thing 3 times. It's not the men obviously doing it that tick me off, it's the holier-than-thou attitude that lumps common polite greetings in with cat-calling.

As a female, I'm insulted it's come to that. Being spoken to at all is supposed to be offensive now? Oh hell no.

originally posted by: signalfire

She wasn't being a bitch, she was TRYING TO BE LEFT ALONE.

Get it?

She was trying to be left alone? She was walking on the east side of the tracks right through an area clearly marked "beware" to prove some obnoxious point. May as well walk past a prison work crew. And the "get it" part is pretty ironic.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: signalfire

And there it is! "Most of you guys are ugly". Woman logic. You're ugly so it's harassment. Man, some of the most beautiful women have got to have the worst personalities. This has always been the problem

As you said , there it is . I was once told by a very wise person that if you bring physical attributes into the argument you have lost any moral high ground you have no matter what your point is . BTW , i am still waiting for an apology for rape jokes being brought up in her reply to one of my posts . It would seem that that she is quick to pigeon hole people but not so quick to admit that she may have overstepped the mark .

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Tangerine

Looking up/down...i can see how it would be offensive. There is a fine line between leering like a predator, and having a quick glance.

What you cannot do is expect millenia of social conditioning built into the mating ritual to be shut down because of modern feminism. Potential partners may/may not realize that the persont hey see as a potential partner aren't considering themselves a potential partner.

If the worst that happens to anyone is that they get "checked out", in the appropriate environment (i.e., not at work), it seems par for the course in human interpersonal engagement.

There are ways to check out someone without harassing them and making them feel ill at ease. Realize that when a woman smiles back or says "Hello" back that can easily be interpreted as "wanting it" and that can lead to escalated behavior on the part of the male. I've had male friends who interpreted female clerks smiling and saying, "Did you find everything you were looking for?" while checking out their groceries as a come-on. I witnessed it. The women were not coming-on to the men. Women detect subtleties of voice and body language that men do not perceive or misperceive. It's a difference in wiring.

originally posted by: FlySolo

originally posted by: signalfire

She wasn't being a bitch, she was TRYING TO BE LEFT ALONE.

Get it?

She was trying to be left alone? She was walking on the east side of the tracks right through an area clearly marked "beware" to prove some obnoxious point. May as well walk past a prison work crew. And the "get it" part is pretty ironic.

This post perfectly illustrates my point.

a reply to: Tangerine

Sorry, which point was that again? A woman can't mind her own business when purposely strutting through a ghetto area with the hope to provoke cat calls for a short film funded by feminists?

Ah yes that point.

a reply to: Tangerine

You do realize that its not exactly right to hold people accountable because you are detecting subtleties in behavior?

My wife gives me this nonsense all the time. And she is wrong every single time. Problem is, from a social standpoint I am a complete simpleton. There is no way I would be able to stomach spending the time and effort it would take to concoct even a tenth of the nonsense she ascribes to me.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Tangerine

You do realize that its not exactly right to hold people accountable because you are detecting subtleties in behavior?

My wife gives me this nonsense all the time. And she is wrong every single time. Problem is, from a social standpoint I am a complete simpleton. There is no way I would be able to stomach spending the time and effort it would take to concoct even a tenth of the nonsense she ascribes to me.

You missed the point. Studies have proven that women pick up on social clues to which most men are oblivious. Let's apply it to the current discussion. Most of the men posting on this topic seem not to have noticed that the woman in the video did not want social contact. As far as I recall, all the women picked up on that (even though one male-identified woman called her a bitch for it.). Most of the men seem to be oblivious to the fact that just because a woman exists and walks in public she's not soliciting their attention and comments and sexual advances. Either they're oblivious to or misreading her social cues or they're violating them. You tell me which it is.