Dramatic Video Shows Veteran Refusing to Submit to Police at Gunpoint

a reply to: NthOther

As someone said in a thread yesterday, enough is enough - a Militia needs to be formed, nation wide, to counter the threat that is the US militarized police and their ongoing intimidatory interaction with citizens.

I can see the next American civil war will be between these militarized thugs and righteous Militia men and women.

a reply to: Catacomb

So, erratic driving equates to those inside being murderers, and psycopaths, which usually requires a cop to pull a weapon. Gotcha.

I'm saying that two people getting out of a vehicle for no apparent reason after driving erratically is enough of a concern for an officer to draw his weapon.

It's not like the cop pulled them over and ordered them out of the car at gunpoint for swerving a little. He was trying to get an ambulance for the guy and the driver and passenger both hopped out.

I would have to see the whole encounter to make a definitive statement, but from the information we currently have I don't believe the officer(s) acted inappropriately.

a reply to: davidchin

Here you go...

losangeles.cbslocal.com...

Natividad was a passenger in a car when a deputy tried to stop the vehicle after noticing the driver was disoriented and unresponsive. Authorities say Natividad’s friend drove off but quickly stopped.
Both men got out of the car and were ordered to the ground at gunpoint.

and goes on to say...

The deputy says he smelled marijuana, and the driver, seen on the sidewalk in the footage, was arrested for driving while impaired by drugs.

Both men got out of the car. They were not asked out of the car. They got out. Anyone knows that you do not do that. This whole idea that people can say they are afraid of the police and do not have to comply to bs. Seriously.

So you have two guys high who pulled away from a traffic stop and got out smelling of weed. Then you have one who challenges the police and, in my opinion, should have been tazed. Crying...what pussy...don't taxe me bro!! comes to mind here...

This is not a police state...it is a state of morons who think since they tape what happens they are not in the wrong.

The moral of this story, like many other examples, is co-operate and comply with reasonable requests. What amounts to a reasonable request is dependant on the situation the LEOs find themselves in and they'll be very edgy until they're certain there's no threat to themselves or others in the area.

These things are guaranteed to escalate when the subject is argumentative but it does make for great video. Maybe there's a connection there?

originally posted by: Pilgrum

The moral of this story, like many other examples, is co-operate and comply with reasonable requests. What amounts to a reasonable request is dependant on the situation the LEOs find themselves in and they'll be very edgy until they're certain there's no threat to themselves or others in the area.

If we have to be reasonable, why don't they? Pulling a gun on someone who is engaged in non-violent resistance is not reasonable.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Or are the rules different for them?

Till we start shooting back they will continue to act the violence prone assholes they really are....theres no difference between the police and hells angels....just their colours....both groups are masters at intimidation.When I say no difference I mean both these outfits....cops and bikers are corrupt bullies who badly need putting down.
Perhaps in the past the cops were a little better, but no longer.....

originally posted by: matafuchs
He was a passenger in a car. The car stopped because the driver had an episode/seizure. Police approached and the driver took off. They were then ordered out of the vehicle. Sorry, but that is more than enough reason to be weary and pull on someone. He was in no danger expect to not complying to a simple request. Don't advertise this like he was walking down the street and they came up on him for no reason.

Just want to make sure facts are correct and not standing up for overzealous cops in all situations...

I am sorry but the way you see this is..........thoughtless.....I could have used many words but thoughtless sums it up the best. The cops had no reason to draw lethal weapons. They should only be drawn if they are going to be used........Period. If the police feel a deadly threat.........Ya they should draw a deadly weapon..........If a deadly threat is not the case.......NO they should keep them holstered.




What if...........What if a car backfired.......What if this man sneezed........What if the cops finger slipped........I can go on forever but the fact remains the police did not need to use deadly force. And because they did not need to use deadly force the weapons should have remained holstered.

a reply to: NthOther

This is a quote from another thread from a very intelligent individual:

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
No...just, no. Navidad (the kid talking and taking the video) did not stand up to a damn thing. His dumb ass, high as hell, apparently, decided the most intelligent thing to do was to get out of his vehicle during a traffic stop.

Deputies said the men got out of the car, which escalated the situation and that's when officers pulled out their weapons. A second deputy appeared and handcuffed the men. They arrested Jean-Baptiste for driving under the influence of marijuana.

Shouse said the heated situation could've been avoided if both men would've remained in the car.

Now, anyone with half a damn brain cell knows that getting out of your vehicle during a traffic stop when not directed to by the LEO is asking to be treated like an agressor. LEOs have zero way of knowing your intent, and there are myriad videos online you can find that show people calmly exiting a vehicle immediately before attacking--sometimes killing--the LEO.

This particular LEO did what he was trained to do for his own protection. He wasn't acting beligerently or overly aggressive--he was protecting his own safety. "Young man stands up to police in video stand-off"...no, he was high as sh*t and doing everything incorrectly during a traffic stop. Had he stayed in the car, he wouldn't look like a weeping dumb*ss online in a situation that he escalated through poor decisions.

Look, give credit where credit is due, but there is no credit due here--just a kid acting ignorantly during a traffic stop. "I know my rights," he yells. Sure, you have a right to jump out of the car a scream at the cop that he's a coward, but you also have a right to reap the rewards of that stupid decision.

Honestly, I can't find one thing this guy posted that I would argue with

originally posted by: SubTruth
The cops had no reason to draw lethal weapons. They should only be drawn if they are going to be used........Period. If the police feel a deadly threat.........Ya they should draw a deadly weapon..........If a deadly threat is not the case.......NO they should keep them holstered.

What if...........What if a car backfired.......What if this man sneezed........What if the cops finger slipped........I can go on forever but the fact remains the police did not need to use deadly force. And because they did not need to use deadly force the weapons should have remained holstered.

Remember that one time, when you said someone's comments were "thoughtless?"

Oh, the irony.

First off, ANYONE who carries a firearm for protection does not wait until their life is in danger to pull the weapon if they don't have to. Also, if an LEO pulls someone over for dumbassery behind the wheel--whose car smells like weed--and the occupants exit the vehicle without being asked, that is a threatening situation for anyone, because the person (the LEO in this case) has zero idea what the occupants are about to do.

For you to imply that the LEO should have acted differently is one of the most asinine, unintelligent comments I've read. He acted exactly as trained, and kept the weapon trained on a high individual screaming through a tearful rant while calling the LEO a coward. I think the officer handled himself perfectly.

Take off your ignorant blinders for a minute, quit Monday-morning quarterbacking the situation for a minute and just understand that in high-stress situations that have too many unknown variable that are potential threats to the officer's life, he did what he had to do. Had he holstered his weapon, Navidad or the dude on the ground could have pulled a concealed firearm and the LEO would be defenseless, or they could have rushed him and overpowered him because there were two of them.

A firearm is not a pull-and-shoot only device--it is also there to establish control of a situation and to deter any potential hostile actions from an individual. The LEO handled himself perfectly, and for this Navidad idiot to be the OP's "Hero-of-the-Month" really speaks badly as to what some of you consider a hero. This was a high, punk kid with authority issues who made every bad decision (short of rushing the cop) that he could during that traffic stop.

Hero my ass.

originally posted by: NthOther
If we have to be reasonable, why don't they? Pulling a gun on someone who is engaged in non-violent resistance is not reasonable.

"Non-violent resistance" is not the same as a non-threatening action. Why can't people like you understand that? The officer did nothing wrong, and you are speaking out of pure ignorance if you can't see all of the potential scenarios that could happen when two individuals exit a vehicle during a traffic stop with one LEO.

The officer was being reasonable. Navidad, not so much. If you can't see that, then you are also being unreasonable.

Back in the day it was advised not to point a gun at someone without the intention of shooting them...terroristic threat and all...

during that time it was also advised not to shoot/kill anything you did not intend to eat.

Talk about decades of failing administrative/executive policy.

a reply to: loveguy

I was taught to never draw a weapon unless I was going to use it. However, in the case of LEO's it is, as described, more for control and protection in this day and age. Sad but true. 30 years ago a cop may have been able to walk up to a car and if it smelled like weed he might confiscate and send you on your way.

a reply to all

Now, anyone can have a firearm or a concealed or a weapon. Cop did nothing wrong here. If you think he did, then you are buying into the fear that you are supposed to feel. I have NO fear when a cop pulls me over. License and reg..if they ask you out you get out. Answer questions. Ticketed or not ticketed. You have warrants you take a ride.

Stop blaming the police in every instance and look at society as a whole. I have LEO friends and relatives who out their lives on the line everyday. There are bad cops but there are bad teachers and doctors and grocery clerks and list goes on and on...

Right or not if police points a gun to your head and tells you to lay down, you should probably lay down.

Need I remind everyone that being stupid (and I don't think he is) is not a crime? Navidad did not commit a crime. Nor did he threaten anyone. The cop felt threatened (although there was no evidence of violent intent) so he drew down on the guy. Does this mean you can get a gun pulled on you for looking at a cop menacingly?

"Well, he was big and black and staring at me funny, so I shot him in the head ten times. And his dog. I felt threatened." Wouldn't surprise me at all.

But anyway, as SlapMonkey said, Navidad was being unreasonable. I can't argue with that. It's a shame that it has come down to this, but yeah. Defiant non-compliance is pretty stubborn and unreasonable.

So be it. It's necessary and expedient.