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Donetsk Forces Plan to Retake Slaviansk, Kramatorsk, Mariupol

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posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: Adaluncatif




I don't understand why Russia doesn't just nuke Kiev.




You really have to ask that question?




posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: Adaluncatif
I don't understand why Russia doesn't just nuke Kiev. Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so there will be no World War III after the attack.


A - It would be a fundamental violation of norms for a country that is nuclear equipped to use them on a nation that's not. (take your WWII Us-Japan argument to that thread to sound off).

B - The armed forces of Russia could most likely win a conventional war against Ukraine.

C - The effects of nuclear weapons are not contained to the area used. The effects are quite capable of crossing international borders.

D - Your suggestion in reality is genocide of Ukrainian people simply because you don't like them. Ukraine got enough of that during WWII and then under 50 years of Soviet occupation.

Its nice to know that Pro Russian supporters are willing to advocate Hitlers position. Your spin is by nukes where Hitler's was by death camps.

bravo!

I have never seen anyone sink their own argument and position while demonstrating just how much blind hatred they have as quickly as you just did.

it will be people like Putin, and those who blindly support him, that will be confused when they pass away and reach the other side, only to find the pearly gates aren't that pearly, "St. Peter" has black hair and a small mustache and the gate leading into "heaven"will have a sign on it that says "Arbeit macht frei".

A hint... Its not Aramaic or Sanskrit.
edit on 24-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 03:30 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So the cease fire the rebels signed was nothing more than to secure a breather so they can rearm / re-equip and continue their fight against Ukraine.

gee... I called that one when it started.



Nice way of denying ATO was collapsing, it saved Kiev`s army not the Separatists ones.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Nice way of denying ATO was collapsing, it saved Kiev`s army not the Separatists ones.


Try again...

ALJAZEERA - Pro-Russian separatists attack Ukrainian posts, ignoring cease-fire

back to the Russian Nazi

Separatist leaders have rejected the cease-fire and said they will not disarm. In Donetsk, a group of armed men gathered in the central square to take a military oath to the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.

Pavel Gubarev, who describes himself as the governor of the Donetsk People's Republic, claimed there was no cease-fire near Slovyansk, scene of serious clashes over the past several months.

"There is no cease-fire over there," Gubarev said. "There is shooting all the time, and this cease-fire that Poroshenko is talking about is just fake. The Ukrainian forces are either not under his control, or he is just a liar."



Pressure on 'buffer area' amid Donetsk explosions and third Russian convoy

Despite preparations for the newly-agreed 'buffer area,' Russia appears to be straining new peace plans after sending a third convoy to the Ukraine border. Explosions continue to be heard around rebel-held Donetsk.



Care to clarify your point now that you have proper information.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

ATO was collapsing when the ceasefire was called, you`re even trying to twist that into the Separatist needed to re-arm...

I wonder why it`s allowed you`re able to spew such crap on this site, I thought deliberately placing false information wasn`t allowed on this site...it seems that that rule is a big joke. I don`t get why the owners of this site aren`t more taking care to prevent such stuff, it`s bringing the whole site down.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Maybe you should try refuting my argument with facts instead of whining about me being able to post on a topic you also take interest in and doing so on the opposite side of yours.

demanding I be removed from this site is no different than Putin demanding his critics be silenced and imprisoned.

Excellent demonstration of whats coming to Crimea and if Russia is successful South and East Ukraine.

the sooner you get in through your head you and I don't agree on this topic and that I am not going anywhere the better the debates we can have. If all you are going to do is whine because you cant refute facts then don't bother responding.

it really is that simple...

now do you have anything on topic?



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I`m not a person with whom you can have a debate when you just make stuff up, sorry mate.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

I`m not a person with whom you can have a debate when you just make stuff up, sorry mate.


So you cant refute what I stated and you are unable to support your claim with sources.

why did you even bother to engage the topic when you cant support your argument? This is how threads get derailed. You are a person who does debate by making things up and then failing to back them up with sources.

If you had sources supporting your position, you most surely would have posted them.

So - got any sources?
edit on 24-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

If you refuse to read up on stuff its no wonder :

Report from Donbass War Theater: Ukraine Government Forces Defeated Prior to “Cease Fire”. Kiev Switches To “Strategic Defense”

Source

NATO General: Kiev already lost the battle in Ukraine

Source

So what research you say you do ?

You`re just making whole stories up by ignoring facts to suit your agenda.
edit on 24-10-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Source


Surely you have something a bit more credible or unbiased for a source?



Source


Again do you have something a bit more unbiased you can link to as a source?



You`re just making whole stories up by ignoring facts to suit your agenda.


Says the one using globalresearch as source.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Poroshenko himself...?

Source



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Lots of machines were destroyed but Ukraine came to war with roughly 2000 T-64 tanks so they might still have 600+ on the field ready.

Main point is most of their "good units" i.e. airborne and mechanized brigades were routed and some were totally destroyed. There were heavy desertions.

Now the question is who are these soldiers who have built up in 3 directions from Donetsk. Are these some form of reserves, volunteers or new army recruits. Most probably they are only numbers i.e. not well trained and experienced.

That is why it might be a better idea for Porky and his arrogant advisers to pull back west of Dniper river and try to protect Kiev. Once these force concentrations are even disturbed let alone destroyed, there will be little left for Junta to protect Kiev.

Fascist volunteers might put up fights with AKs but those would be easy targets for advancing army of tanks and BTRs.

Porky is not in tune with the reality here. He is making his people suffer for his fascist arrogance.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 07:07 PM
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The Russian shilling is strong in this thread.

Thank you Xcathdra for keeping the FACTS flowing.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Poroshenko himself...?



Interesting because he seemed to be saying this about what losses they received


Petr Poroshenko announced that during the special operation on the east of the country the Ukrainian materiel was destroyed to the level of 65%. "I can say how much materiel we lost... Military vehicles were destroyed to 60-65%," – said the president during his interview for the Ukrainian TV channels on Sunday evening.


cassad-eng.livejournal.com...

Military vehicles were destroyed not the Army.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

An army that loses that much of their total vehicles is collapsing, that`s way beyond what units can bare to lose for their support.

And of course Western media got dead silence about it, but that`s no news.

But here`s some more :

Ukraine: A Catastrophic Defeat



The scale of the devastation suffered by Ukrainian forces in southeastern Ukraine over the last week has to be seen to be believed. It amounts to a catastrophic defeat and will long be remembered by embittered Ukrainians as among the darkest days of their history.

Source

edit on 24-10-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

An army that loses that much of their total vehicles is collapsing, that`s way beyond what units can bare to lose for their support.

You are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla question in the room -

Why?




originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
And of course Western media got deaf silence about it, but that`s no news.

Its reported on in western media outlets - After all you just cited a western media outlet as your source.




originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
But here`s some more :

Ukraine: A Catastrophic Defeat



The scale of the devastation suffered by Ukrainian forces in southeastern Ukraine over the last week has to be seen to be believed. It amounts to a catastrophic defeat and will long be remembered by embittered Ukrainians as among the darkest days of their history.

Source


Again you left out a huge fact -

Then, in the last two weeks of August, everything changed again. The Ukrainians said that regular Russian troops were crossing the border, a contention supported by western intelligence reports. More and more stories are being written in the Russian press too about soldiers killed in action in Ukraine, though the Russian government flatly denies that any regular soldiers—as opposed to volunteers who have come on their own—have crossed the frontier. However not only is there mounting evidence of the presence of regular Russian soldiers but the fact that the military situation has changed so rapidly also suggests the rebels have acquired new strength. Today, Donetsk is a much safer city than it was a few weeks ago. The reason for that is that Ukrainian forces have been pushed back though the two sides still trade artillery and Grad rocket fire every day.



Again the blame lies with Russia.



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Again the blame lies with Russia.


In 3 days Russian troops changed the whole course of battle at Iloviask by blowing 100s of military vehicles and killing several hundreds. Without Russian help, rebels would have capitulated like they were town after town.

HOWEVER, despite knowing this fact, that at the critical point Russia will come up with decisive help and turn the tide, Porky Poro is still vying to attack NAF and try to take Donetsk and Lughansk.

This man is a murderer nothing else, pure murderer who kills civilians, his own soldiers and also the POWs. This Porky is the real war monger with high ego and arrogance. He has called waves of mobilization and called up old folks aging 60 or so to serve in the army. That is a picture of imbalanced shameless mind.

About time some Ukies Army strong man walks upto Rada and throws out all the Porky and associates and declares good terms with Russia and finally ends all the suffering of the people. NovoRossiya will still be formed but left over parts might benefit from good terms with Russia. Porky needs to be kicked out asap.


edit on 24-10-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

No its not, US made a coup and got their CIA puppet in power who took the war to the next level.

And as has been proven by former US ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns memo, Russia didn`t want trouble in Ukraine, but those three facts about the whole situation you can`t seem to remember...I already told you leave out important facts to make a whole different story about what`s happening.

And as I asked you before, what`s the reason why you have to push an anti-Putin agenda so badly you`re blatantly ignoring facts and making stuff up to make him deliberately look bad. At least DJW001 was so honest to say he was doing it because he has friends/family in the Ukraine and Russia who don`t like Putin.

And I agitate against the millions of war traumatized people and deaths the World has added in recent history because of Western policies.

So what`s yours ?


edit on 24-10-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: victor7




In 3 days Russian troops changed the whole course of battle at Iloviask by blowing 100s of military vehicles and killing several hundreds.


When you add them to the ones already there then it happens. Fresh troops are better in battle then those who have been fighting.




About time some Ukies Army strong man walks upto Rada and throws out all the Porky and associates and declares good terms with Russia and finally ends all the suffering of the people. NovoRossiya will still be formed but left over parts might benefit from good terms with Russia. Porky needs to be kicked out asap.


And yet when Yanukovych tried that we see what happened...the people pushed him out, see you don't seem to understand that the Ukraine people do not want to be part of the Russian federation which is why they left in the first place.

A little fact that you and the Putinista's here don't seem to understand.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




No its not, US made a coup and got their CIA puppet in power who took the war to the next level.


So here we go again...

The candidate that the US backed did not win, and the people voted Poroshenko in not the US...learn the difference. You also seem to overlook the fact that Yanukovych stole money from the people and even his own party run parliament was in the process of impeachment, but I guess it is just easier to blame the US isn't it?




And as has been proven by former US ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns memo, Russia didn`t want trouble in Ukraine, but those three facts about the whole situation you can`t seem to remember...I already told you leave out important facts to make a whole different story about what`s happening.


If your talking about the Wikileaks memo it just says Russia doesn't want it, which is not their decision to make as Ukraine is a sovereign nation that doesn't have to do what Russia says.

And just so you know it was NATO who denied Ukraine the chance to join and that was long before this conflict had started. The reason Ukraine wants to join now is to keep Russia from doing what they have done so far from continuing. It's called security from invasion.

And if Russia didn't want trouble in Ukraine why did they annex Crimea on a fabricated story they were just protecting ethnic Russians from something that was never happening?

Something that the pro Russian crowd seem to overlook...the truth.



And as I asked you before, what`s the reason why you have to push an anti-Putin agenda so badly you`re blatantly ignoring facts and making stuff up to make him deliberately look bad.


Putin's record stands for itself, so he doesn't need help making himself look bad.



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