NATO General: Kiev already lost the battle in Ukraine

NATO General: Kiev already lost the battle in Ukraine

Military wise Kiev already lost the conflict. That`s what a high ranking general from the NATO told the German weekly Der Spiegel.

According to the NATO General (who wanted to remain anonymous) it`s best for the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to get his "troops alive out of the grip of the Russians."

The Ukrainian Army has got increasingly more cornered last week by an offensive by pro-Russian rebels. For instance the soldiers had to leave Airport Lugansk. Also in parts of the South-East government troops are being pushed in the defense. The rebels now control the city Novoazovsk and are are threatening the important port city of Mariupol.

The general is in particular worried about the new front in the South near Mariupol. This feeds the fears that the Separatists are trying to establish a land corridor between Russia and Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula witch has been annexed by Russia in March. If this happens, Ukraine has lost it`s control over his own East-border totally, according to the general.

Since the rebels have launched their counter-offensive, they have already taken nearly 700 Ukrainian soldiers captive. In the past 24 hours fifteen Ukrainian soldiers were killed, Reuters reports.

Over 1 million people in Ukraine have so far left their homes for fear of the violence. 814,000 of them are in Russia, at least 260,000 people are in Ukraine adrift. The total number of refugees still in Ukraine the last 3 weeks has nearly doubled, as announced by the UN refugee agency today. According to the UNHCR, more people are fleeing every day and a new mass exodus can not be ruled out.

The current flow of refugees coming mainly from Donetsk region and Lugansk region.

'Kiev undermines peace'
The Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said today that the request by Ukraine to join NATO member undermines efforts to end the war.

According to Lavrov the request came just after Kiev Ukrainian and Russian leaders had gathered in Minsk to search for a way out of the crisis. "The peace camp tried, and still tries to launch, political negotiations in which all fundamental issues for Ukrainians can be discussed. But in Kiev the "war-scum" take steps which undermine these steps," according to Lavrov on a press-meeting.

According to Lavrov the most important thing now is "to bring some sense into the war-scum in Kiev" and for a huge part only the United states can do that.

Link not working, so you have to copy/paste it, clear the space after the first h:

h ttp://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/30323/Onrust-in-Oekraine/article/detail/3734131/2014/09/02/NAVO-generaal-Kiev-heeft-strijd-in-Oekraine-al-verloren.dhtml

That`s why the West has been crying for a week about a so called invasion, puppet-government Kiev has lost.

The Separatists had been planning this whole offensive for months. They seems to have lured a great part of the Ukrainian Army into their territory (they have been giving up territory), so they could encircle them later on. Kiev and their NATO advisers have been caught with their pants down.

Of course the long standing US wish to have a Missile Defense System at the border of Russia still needed to be realized, so lots of propaganda in the MSM the last week. Europe was in general against the Missile Defense System because it was seen as an act of aggression towards Russia. They now seem to have succeeded anyway, with "everyone crying" they are scared now.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

According to the NATO General (who wanted to remain anonymous) it`s best for the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to get his "troops alive out of the grip of the Russians."

Enough said. Ukraine cannot hope to defeat Russia... without NATO's help.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

According to the NATO General (who wanted to remain anonymous) it`s best for the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to get his "troops alive out of the grip of the Russians."

Enough said. Ukraine cannot hope to defeat Russia... without NATO's help.

It`s just same old anti-Russia propaganda we have been hearing all a long from NATO, no news here.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

According to the NATO General (who wanted to remain anonymous) it`s best for the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to get his "troops alive out of the grip of the Russians."

Enough said. Ukraine cannot hope to defeat Russia... without NATO's help.

Not even then.

The Separatists had been planning this whole offensive for months. They seems to have lured a great part of the Ukrainian Army into their territory (they have been giving up territory), so they could encircle them later

Stalingrad anyone?

The 'West' never learns................................

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

It just same old anti-Russia propaganda we have been hearing all a long from NATO, no news here.

Speaking of NATO and der Spiegel, you might want to read this:

www.spiegel.de...

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Funny how they retreated to a place where Russia could supply them.

a reply to: DJW001

Enough said. Ukraine cannot hope to defeat Russia… without NATO's help.

I think you got that wrong there, sport.

Ukraine can't defeat it self, let alone the Russians. Nato couldn't do either.

Here is a link to the original article:

www.spiegel.de...

The important point is that the NATO general has no doubt that the Ukrainian army is engaging Russian troops. I suspect that this is the beginning of an attempt to sell the German people on military action.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: DJW001

Enough said. Ukraine cannot hope to defeat Russia… without NATO's help.

I think you got that wrong there, sport.

Ukraine can't defeat it self, let alone the Russians. Nato couldn't do either.

Enough bluster. My point isn't who could win, my point is that Russian soldiers are going to start dying in much larger numbers in the very near future. Are you okay with that?

originally posted by: DJW001
Here is a link to the original article:

www.spiegel.de...

The important point is that the NATO general has no doubt that the Ukrainian army is engaging Russian troops. I suspect that this is the beginning of an attempt to sell the German people on military action.

They can sell all they want, Germans won`t buy it...no matter how many polls they fake over there :

FleeingShadow 1 week ago Yeah, uh... that "poll" was done by a channel (ARD) who has recently had to admit to having faked several "polls" in the past. Oops! Actually... there's been a regular #storm in Germany over so-called "polls" this month... mainly because quite a few famous newspapers and TV channels have admitted to regularily faking them... LOL... no German will believe a German "poll" anymore. As well they shouldn't.

Here is a little bit of a history lesson for pro-west support of what Kiev is saying .

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The Separatists had been planning this whole offensive for months. They seems to have lured a great part of the Ukrainian Army into their territory (they have been giving up territory), so they could encircle them later on. Kiev and their NATO advisers have been caught with their pants down.

There are questions being raised as to why Kiev forces are sitting on 9 place under encirclement. 2-3 of these have already been surrendered or destroyed.

They give 3 reasons a) Rebels are more mobile, playing defensive war, have more local and Russian intelligence b) Junta forces have big machines to carry along, once they dig in a place moving out is not easy, the Junta air force is nearly totally neutralized i.e. gone inept. c) There are FSB agents in Kiev's military at higher levels. They are helping rebels defeat the Ukes Armies by throwing them into wrong spots.

Also came to know that there has been some animosity developed between Ukes Army and Volunteer Batallions which mostly represent the "Right Wing Fascists". Logic of Ukes Army is that "It is the Right Wing Fascists" who are responsible for the mess that Ukraine is in today. In other words, this war should have not happened and Yanukovich should still be in power.

The Ukes Army would not give heavy weapons to Fascist battalions and there have been reports of soldiers intentionally "disabling" the fuses of artillery shells in order to reduce their impact on the civilians. Still more than 2500 civilians have perished and mostly due to artillery shelling. Everyone including Porky Poro and Junta leaders including military HQs should be held responsible for such EVIL act on civilians and vulnerable people.

originally posted by: DJW001
Enough bluster. My point isn't who could win, my point is that Russian soldiers are going to start dying in much larger numbers in the very near future. Are you okay with that?

I feel sorry for the countries who inflict those deaths also...

a reply to: DJW001

Enough bluster. My point isn't who could win, my point is that Russian soldiers are going to start dying in much larger numbers in the very near future. Are you okay with that?

Not even. Putin is old school KGB, he knows when he's being goaded into the enemies game. Thats why all the rumors of Russians in Ukraine are just that… rumors. the Ukrainians are sorting things out themselves… despite western manipulation.

Hats off to both parties for standing their ground in the face of such an onslaught (from EU NATO KIEV).

a reply to: victor7

Luckily the Red Cross is on it as far getting after the bastards.

I know the US has a law to invade the Netherlands if US government officials get accused by The Hague. Do the Ukrainians have the same law...?

If so, can we expect what remains of them to invade us, LMAO !

Russian Red Cross gathers evidence of war crimes in Ukraine

en.itar-tass.com...

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yes on that famous phone call tween Johnson and McNamara. Same crap, different day.

Those older of us remember the BS about Nam and the parallels it holds for todays generation.

The state of secrets is keeping a tight lid on their communications and actions. If one wants to understand though just do some research on Vietnam.

The Politics of War never change.

There's so many sides to this you could build a pentagon.

Putin appears to be the media's new Gaddafi, and Saddam before him.
I'd like to think Putin has more marbles than them too but not so sure.

However, anyone who thinks Russia is a pushover in any sense of the imagination is literally delusional.

I'd don't like how the Germans seem to be itching to get at Russia, that wouldn't be due to history now would it?
of course not .

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Over 1 million people in Ukraine have so far left their homes for fear of the violence. 814,000 of them are in Russia

I believe that one line pretty much shows who the eastern Ukrainians trust.

80% of them prefer Russia. Can't say I blame them.

a reply to: Bassago

The problem is not violence as much. Artillery shelling is a top cause. Another serious WARCRIME has been the tactics of Kiev Junta to shell the critical levers of the civic society i.e. power stations, water supply, hospitals, schools etc.

They think doing these would make people chase away the rebels and spare their inept army from getting scratches.

There have been recent reports i.e. after Ilavoisk defeat, that Junta forces have been shooting tank shells into the houses and shop, on their way out of the town while retreating. Their logic is to destroy the infrastructure of the place they could not stamp their authority on.