What Putin has achieved till now

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

What Putin has achieved till now

You forgot to mention all the murders he achieved as head of the KGB. Also the tortures and killings and anti-free speech imprisonments he ordained. And the discriminatory anti-homosexual laws he put in place. The guy is brilliant but he's also a stone cold killer.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Nobody's perfect.

The world needs a balance of power in it, and Putin is the only leader I can think of who can give that balance to offset the power that the U.S. / England has. You really don't want the U.S. / England to have a run of the place do you?

Take a cold, hard look at all of the atrocities that those "democratic" societies committed against the world, and the ripple effect those actions have had, over the last 60 years. Now compare them to the effect that Russia has had in the world in that same time. Forget for a second how those 2 different societies have treated their own people, they've both pissed on them in their own way. How did they affect the world?

Love it or hate it, the world needs Russia.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Despite it being a pro-Putin piece? Are you still pretending to be objective? If you read the webpage this is quoted from, it is essentially a messianic neo-Nazi paean!

a reply to: DeepImpactX

Love it or hate it, the world needs Russia.

The world needs a stable, prosperous and law abiding Russia. Putin has failed to deliver it. Instead, he is giving the world an oppressed, revanchist empire.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Despite it being a pro-Putin piece? Are you still pretending to be objective? If you read the webpage this is quoted from, it is essentially a messianic neo-Nazi paean!

Have you actual read it or are you just judging it like most with out actual reading it...?

There`s a lot of interesting stuff in it which you won`t read in MSM.

And you know I also read Western propaganda, so why not read the other side also...oh wait, that would make me see things I shouldn`t see, and we can`t have that now can we ?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Of course. What do you make of the frequent use of expressions like "miraculous" or "revived from the dead?" Does this strike you as being accurate, unbiased reporting?

originally posted by: DeepImpactX

Take a cold, hard look at all of the atrocities that those "democratic" societies committed against the world, and the ripple effect those actions have had, over the last 60 years. Now compare them to the effect that Russia has had in the world in that same time.

Yes, let's take a cold hard look. Like it or not the Worlds over all standard of living has sky rocketed over those past 60 years lead mostly by free markets and business mainly by Western investments. The BRIC Nations have grown by leaps and bound due mainly to earlier Western investments.

Is the world perfect?

Hell no.

What has Russia provided in the last 60 years? Let's take a cold hard look at Stalin's purges and or later Iron fist approach to Eastern Europe and why former Soviet States are running like hell from Russian influence.

Forget for a second how those 2 different societies have treated their own people, they've both pissed on them in their own way. How did they affect the world?

I dunno, when was the last time the Western world killed tens of Millions of their own 'undesirables' within their own borders? Not only that but Russia/Soviets pushed their global Communist Proxy agenda which along with Western Proxy forces had both caused lots of Death and Destruction. So don't try to sugar coat Russia's influence in the world.

Russia has more blood of their own and others on their hands than the West in the past 60 years. Which when one considers just how much blood the West does have on their hands is saying a hell of a lot.

Love it or hate it, the world needs Russia.

Needs Russia?

Sure.

Putin?

Not so much.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Of course. What do you make of the frequent use of expressions like "miraculous" or "revived from the dead?" Does this strike you as being accurate, unbiased reporting?

I can see beyond those things.

I already told you in another thread you needed to debunk this...we can`t have people reading these kinds of things, now can we...?

a reply to: DJW001

accurate, unbiased reporting?

...as we see in the western media outlets... Where to begin? Lusitania, 911, Iraq WMDs, MH370, MH17 and so on...

Western humanitarian mission is bombing countries, Russian invasion is a convoy of humanitarian aid... Accurate reporting.

a reply to: SLAYER69

All good points. Both countries are bathing in blood and only have the best interests of their leaders in mind.

The Kremlin wants "historical accuracy" for its nation while Washington/Arlington wants to maintain the wealth of the wealthiest, and both will kill whoever they want in order to get what they want. Neither country seems to care too much about what their citizens actually want.

I'm not trying to sugarcoat what Russia does, but this is how I see this big picture: Both countries are dirtier than original sin and America wants people to believe otherwise. They spin the truth for their own gain. Russia will tell you to your face what's going on, not care, and carry on doing it.

When they tell the world that their soldiers are "on vacation" in the Ukraine, I see that as an explanation that was influenced by the western way of doing things. Deception. I can't respect that. I may not agree with most of what either country does, but I will respect the one who's honest about what they're doing. Whatever that may be.

Call it the lesser of two evils.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I can see beyond those things.

"Those things" are the whole point of the essay. Vladimir Vladimirovitch is no mere mortal, He is the Hand of God, doing God's Will to liberate His True Chosen People (the Slavs) from the Yoke of Bondage to the Evil JOOOOOZ!!!!

How can you be so bent out of shape by four ultra-nationalists in the Kyiv government that you reflexively refer to at as a "Nazi government" all the time, yet you lap up Russian Nazi propaganda like its manna from heaven. Isn't there a quote about motes and beams that applies here?

I already told you in another thread you needed to debunk this...we can`t have people reading these kinds of things, now can we...?

On the contrary. I want everyone to read the OP so they can see what Putin's agenda really is, and what sort of people support it.

a reply to: DJW001

Russian Nazi propaganda

They (the west now with free democratic ukRUINe) need no propaganda.

So glad we helped put in this new government in Ukraine. Now the people can be free to practice democracy,you know,like us. Heres a few videos to show how well things are going,and to show what democracy means to right sector.

Ukraine where the animals roam

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: DJW001

Russian Nazi propaganda

They (the west now with free democratic ukRUINe) need no propaganda.

So glad we helped put in this new government in Ukraine. Now the people can be free to practice democracy,you know,like us. Heres a few videos to show how well things are going,and to show what democracy means to right sector.

Ukraine where the animals roam

More hate porn.

Now Russia is threatening Moldova.

Putin started off well. Was friendly with the West, joined the World Bank, joined the PFP, talked about joining NATO. Western cash was flowing into Russia. Russia economy was booming and Russian influence was growing across the world.

However, Putin just could not seem stand the fact that Russia was a democracy. The freedoms so hard won by the Russian people began to be taken away. To the point now Russian opposition has been crushed, media either controled or eliminated, the internet controled and companies that dare to defy Putin are nationalized. Russia is now isolated, its military adventures in its fomer Soviet Republics has left it surrounded by nations who are desperate to join the West, it economy is in real trouble, Russia begs China for support but, China uses Russia when it is useful but, walks away when from even a supportive UN vote becasue to China the US holds far more value than Russia. Russia's failure to defend Syria has driven Iran and Vietnam to begin moves to join the US and the West. Putins failed military reforms have lead to complete messes in Georgia and Ukraine. Russia's defense industry has continued its decay where even its largest arms market India has now begun mass buying from the US and other because of Russia failures to deliver orders on time or at all. Unrest within Russia is finding momentum. And Putin just pretends everything is fine submitting a budget that assumes western sanctions do not exist and that oil prices (that are on the way down) will remain high. I do not know if Putin is kept clueless about what is really going on around him or if he is aware and just choses to pretend things are different. Either way failing to do something about Russia fast growing problems is going to lead to some hard times for Russia ahead.

a reply to: DJW001

More hate porn.

Western hypocrisy.

a reply to: DJW001

On the contrary. I want everyone to read the OP so they can see what Putin's agenda really is, and what sort of people support it.

Be careful what you wish for, because there are also insights in what the West is up to.

Ah well, 25 % Nazi`s in a government is something which can just by scrubbed off like it`s nothing.

Most people come here to get information which they don`t get from MSM, and that piece gives some of those insights.

Clearly there`s some stuff in it which you don`t like (hint : it`s not only the nationalist view on it), or else you won`t go to all that length in trying to make it look bad.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Ah well, 25 % Nazi`s in a government is something which can just by scrubbed off like it`s nothing.

The way you scrub off the 56 Nazis in the Duma?

originally posted by: DJW001
Now Russia is threatening Moldova.

No, it`s threatening The West.

Russia has peace forces over there and The West wants them out.

But peace is no good, now isn`t it...?

You just want another Eastern Ukraine style situation which you can cheer on.

a reply to: DeepImpactX

I have no illusion about Moscow's in your face approach. However, Just remember, All that glitters is not gold. In fact I'd say it's a facade for the gullible.

Also, how can you sit there and write that Russia wants 'Historical accuracy" when they've systematically dismantled freedom of the press and other hard won gains during the Soviet downfall by either shutting down or nationalizing News papers, Interweb sites, TV and Radio stations which most of the time, if not all, were critical of Mother Russia?


Oh and by the way, The West didn't invent being 'Deceptive'

Putin is former KGB and knows full well how to employ deceptive tactics to achieve a specific goal. Those who blindly praise him for being deceptive like a fox seem to be clueless and fail to realize that they themselves may have fallen for some of his 'Praised' fox like deceptions.

Something to chew on.