Did Jesus say anything about gay folk?.

a reply to: orangetom1999

We agree on just about everything. We disagree on one, small thing.

Please understand that this is sport for me. If I can offend you and make other people laugh at you, for ridiculous beliefs which put other people down, you can bet money or love that I will.

If you haven't meant to put anyone down, I will graciously apologise for any offense I've caused you. If, however, you are bent on not taking into account, the thread topic - I can't.

I'm well aware that you are saying the whole bible must be taken into account for context in understand any words Jesus is recorded to have spoken.

I'm coming right out and saying that the bible is a badly written, hellish, nasty piece of work which was not intended for any of us to follow, unless we were living in the same manner is the hebrews of antiquity. I don't care to please the christian god because I don't believe it exists. I do believe that if it did, I would not waste my time worshipping it and that unless it was insecure, evil or both - it wouldn't care and would be happy that I was trying to be happy, glad when I return to it in spirit with whatever I've managed to learn here.

I'm going to ask that you read my words and be very clear that I'm not the uneducated fool you tried to make me out to be. What I am is someone who simply refuses put his faith in the same thing that you do - that's all.

Like I said, I've read your last post and agreed with almost all of it. If we can now be civil with one another, we've made some progress.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite


Ok..Ok...BasementWarriorKryptonite.

Let us keep this simple...or what is termed the KISS Principle. An Acronym for Keep It Simple Stupid.


Please give me the historical name of the god of rampant runaway open sexuality of all kinds? By name please??
Since this is also the worlds standard for everything...I know it is the same god. The god of this world Please..by name???

That should keep it simple.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Why must there be a god for that? Also, I don't consider two of the same sex to be "rampant, runaway sexuality" - I'm assuming you do so you should feel free to make a god up for that, if it pleases you.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite


Ahhhh...ok..no problem.

I was not aware that you had made a post in the mean time while I was doing the same.


I should tell you that for those who Believe..in Gods Word...it is Life to them. Not sport. No problem once again.

That is what the very word means..to Believe..to be living .. and I don't mean just in the pumper here. Something far more than just a heart pumping blood.



I already knew or sensed this about you and your tack. Once again no problem.

You do not offend me. I have thick skin. When one is in shipbuilding in these kinds of shipyards..you grow thick skin or you will not make it. I am often surrounded by what I call two legged wildlife in its natural habitat. I can handle it.

But I do appreciate the consideration. Thank you.

I thought I did a decent job of taking into account the topic of the thread in a manner which is common sense to people who can think for themselves..and as I stated are not eat up with pop culture.

No problem by me how you handle your sex and sexuality..but I suggest you think it through before you hang out your wares like a street woman and take out an ad on it. Just a suggestion.

I say this because it is obvious that you are not accustomed to dealing with Salt. We are the Salt of the earth ..not the sugar. Once again no problem. I only add this to make you aware of a concept which seems not to have ever occurred to you. No cover charge.

As to your thoughts on the Bible...God's Word....I already knew and deduced this about your thought pattern from the beginning of your post. It is not difficult to see once you know the pattern and proudness by which you displayed your wares. I say this not to offend but make you aware of what others see and know.

That I know this about your thinking is alright by me ..even that you think this way. What is important is that you now know about Salt verses sugar.


I'm going to tell you something which may or may not please or satisfy you with your thought pattern.


I know that many Christians today are just as disobedient and ignorant about many things..inclcuding the Bible. Same thing with many Hebrews ..today as well as yesteryears...back in antiquity..back in time. Not changed.

It ought not to be this way ..but it is. Indeed it is.

This is why it is easy for many atheists to get over on Christians because the Salt has been taken out of many of them. It ought not to be this way ..but it is..indeed it is.

I don't usually carry on in the manner we are doing here..but occasionally when I have had enough of what I consider ignorance...I will speak up and out.


Here...let me give you an example in thought..the nature of a thing...contrary to public normal...today and even yesteryear.

The purpose and significance of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins was to shed his Blood on the Cross for the Sins of His People. For whom He died..gave up His Life.

But Christians are so backwards they celebrate his birth...not his death burial and resurrection. It is historically pagans who celebrate birthdays. You will also find with careful reading ..no instruction to celebrate a birthday..New Testament or Olde Testament.

Once again..you have to be educated to get this dumb. Once I also knew that atheists celebrated His birth and christmas...I knew a scam was going on out here. The numbers were not adding up correctly. Something was bad wrong.
I knew that there was a counterfeit going on out here..complete with all the trimmings.
And one of the things I do on the side is study counterfeits. Occult Counterfeits. This is also how I knew the pattern of your thinking with predictability. Once again I say this to make clear..not to offend. No cover charge.


You see how easy it is to get off track??? Stop thinking..by easy instant gratification..non thinking and emoting??

You just have to teach yourself to think..not emote.

Be very careful what you think is normal..

Hope this helps in some small way.


Bon Appetit!!

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

I've said in so many posts before this one, that I'm in awe of those who have faith and I think it's beautiful. What is frustrating, but also besmirching if their faith, is when they misrepresent it and themselves.

It's always funny to me that the people I'd initially want to rip the throat out of often turn out to be people who I'd sit and have a drink or tea with.

Here's hoping you have a lovely day.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Hey..thanks for that.

I really do need to get some shut eye now.

Been up all night standing the night watch.

I work six at night to six in the morning so I need to shut down for now.

Thanks again for your posts,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

There is nothing wrong with emotion. Jesus wanted us to be fully happy as he was (John 15:11).

Since normal means "usual" or "ordinary", yes, it is "normal" that a person attracted to their own gender would call themselves 'homosexual' and that a person attracted to the opposite gender would call themselves 'heterosexual'.

Sure, gay people are more than their sexuality, but the reason why there is so much focus on gay people is because the injustice done to gay people by others. To make a comparison, yes, vegetarians are more than vegetarians, it is just one aspect of who they are, but if they are being told by others to eat meat even if they don't like it or being bullied or beaten up or told that they can't be married, the focus on vegetarians would be an important issue to focus on just like the injustice done to gays.

It is important to treat others as we would like to be treated.

a reply to: orangetom1999

It was not a cake walk for the men back then as well as the women. Women back then also worked very very hard to keep a family going. Harder than many men today.

What does any of that have to do with the deep disrespect for and the buying and selling of women for sexual and reproductive desires?

I have never found it difficult to get women to take off their clothes. I have found it difficult to get women to give me something valuable and long lasting in life...and the commitment to keep it up.

Wow wow, you ladies man you! Your inability to form healthy relationships has everything to do with YOU and is no reflection of the intelligence and virtue of women, in general.

A thinking person who can think for themselves does not define themselves by their sex or sexuality.

So why then are you defining women ( and men) by their gender and cubby holing them into in gender roles, like promoting the idea of selling women into arranged marriages when the SHTF?

Only public education ...........

What are you going on and on and on about public education for? You sound as if you've been home schooled by your myopic, creationist, Bible thumping mom!

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Well I think I better just pull it out now.. Actually, he did speak about it in the form of Sexual Immorality. I thought someone would of chimed in with it...

And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery - Matthew 19:9

The Greek translation for "Sexual Immorality" is Porneia which refers to any unlawful Sexual Intercourse... Outside of marriage, sexual intercourse is unlawful according to the teachings and the marriage is between a Man and a Woman.. Guess what? Homosexuality is unlawful through the teachings of the Bible..

The above is a direct reference from Jesus that the marriage is between a Male and a Female... Fornication which is repeated numerous times in the teachings is sexual intercourse outside of marriage.. If the Bible does not recognize two males or females as lawful when it comes to marriage, then how can Jesus see it as lawful outside or inside the marriage? It would contradict the Bible itself and Jesus would be lying if he approved of Homosexuality or Incest or Beastiality.... And this is where it comes back to what I quoted earlier in the thread..

In Matthew 19:3, Jesus is asked about the permissibility of divorce "for any cause." “ He answered, ‘Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning “made them male and female” , and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.’

Male and Female once again.. There is no need for Jesus to directly address Homosexuality because the point is clearly made that Male and Female are what God has joined together and outside of that including marriage is unlawful sexual relations according to the bible. But this also applies to Male and Female outside of Marriage, it's not just about Homosexuals...

Increible how you show them facts from the bible and they who disagree with the factual scripture still somehow attempt to argue the scripture away.

a reply to: Jobeycool

People can argue all they want, It is there when it is broken down... If people don't like it, then the Godless System will allow it for the sake of a few extra votes in the name of Equality.

a reply to: Jobeycool

How does citing a scripture addressing a wife's sexual immorality, which could include refusing sexual advances from her husband, or initiating sex during her period, or maybe doing it totally nude, without a sheet between the two of them, equate to Jesus condemning homosexuality?

And, by the way, it was completely lawful, under Hebrew law, for a man to have sexual relations another woman, but that was not the case for women. and Jesus seemed okay with that!

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Jobeycool

People can argue all they want, It is there when it is broken down... If people don't like it, then the Godless System will allow it for the sake of a few extra votes in the name of Equality.

Well Equality is "treating others as you would like to be treated"...
Either you believe in it or you do not.

Can you Christians tell me why you worship a God, who has,

- Required animal and food sacrifices, and wasn't opposed to human ones.
- Approved of rape.
- Approves of slavery.
- Manipulates free will.
- Had random and bizarre rules.
- Had a death sentence for almost every rule broken.
- Requires worship.
- Etc. Etc.

Ok cool, he sent himself/his son to be crucified for the world's sin debt. I guess this more loving, less insane, incarnation of God makes up for all the death and destruction of the Old Testament. God has changed and it shows through his new covenant. Does this mean he holds himself accountable?

Maybe less time spent worrying about homosexuals and more time spent analyzing your father figure (he's abusive) would be productive.

A friend of mine recently "came out" and it got me thinking about this.

The bible was, for all intents and purposes, written by man. People can call it the direct word of God and man "just wrote it" Well, I struggle with that. How did all those who contributed to the books of the bible claim to get direct word from God? I'd bet on the fact that even they had differing views on various topics (of course, we'll never know)

The Bible is an interesting set of books. A very important one! But when people pick and choose what they want to take from it, it loses it's credibility in that persons argument. The Bible is extremely vague on the subject as far as I am aware and never once mentions "homosexuality" I think I read somewhere (probably here!) that the passage often use to condemn homosexuality is actually talking about male prostitutes. I mean, that's a leap if ever there was one.

Look, the Bible teaches a lot of good. It's the basis for much of societies understanding of morals and values. I just don't think we should let an old set of books, written by the corruption of man, which has been mis-translated, taken apart and put back together countless times over the years, cause hatred and division. At the end of the day, if a benevolant God for one second believed people would use "his word" to regurgitate hatred towards those who are BORN homosexual, I doubt God would have even bothered.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Jobeycool

People can argue all they want, It is there when it is broken down... If people don't like it, then the Godless System will allow it for the sake of a few extra votes in the name of Equality.

Can I ask who you think put "it" there? Remember that (uneducated) man has always been ready to attack something it doesn't see as "the norm"

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I've always wondered that and for the sake of this thread's title question, I was curious about Jesus' own words on the subject of homosexuality.

That said, it's almost as though Jesus was sent to apologise and explain for 'his father's' utter fk ups and cruelty and that no matter what he is claimed to have said, he still represented that psycho god with all the freaky laws, rules and condoning - if not outright promotion - of really bizarre behaviours.

I want to like Jesus, but he never said, "Ok guys, look, here's the thing. We need to stop following all this crazy stuff and get real about loving each other."

He seems to have been bound by the culture and time he was born into, so I then ask myself, I wonder why he wasn't born now so he could make use of a more freer and less backwards time, to better promote love and fellowship?

Every answer I come up with is, because he was just a man and had as much choice of when he was born as I did, he was as fallible as I am and all this focus on something that happened 2000 years ago is killing us.

Killing us. This thing which is suppose to be enlightening us, is killing us dead and doing us harm.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Totally agree man, especially with the last part.

originally posted by: arpgme

Well Equality is "treating others as you would like to be treated"...
Either you believe in it or you do not.

What about for extra votes?

originally posted by: MrConspiracy

Can I ask who you think put "it" there? Remember that (uneducated) man has always been ready to attack something it doesn't see as "the norm"

What are you on about?

I have answered the question posed in the thread... I have also answered people when they quote scripture when they believe it is talking about Homosexuals, I have even broken down some of the reasons why Jesus could not of promoted Homosexuality.. If you don't like the answers, then prove them wrong and if you can't and it doesn't sit well with you, then bad luck.

When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter who said what, where or when.. The Question was "Did Jesus say anything about gay folk"? The answer is Not directly but if you were to use a bit of critical thinking, you would understand that there is no possible way that Jesus could of promoted Homosexuality because the laws he speaks about will not allow Homosexuality.

When people start veering from the question posed at the beginning and turn things into a crap flinging contest, I usually tend to follow.. But in the case that people want to get back to the question originally asked, prove what I have said wrong, it should be easy.. No UN crap, none of this slavery crap (Still waiting for links to that also), just prove Jesus approved of Homosexuality.

I couldn't give a toss to be honest with you because when it comes down to it, if I was too choose a religion it would be Islam.

a reply to: DarknStormy
You do know that Paul clearly states he is not speaking for God but his own beliefs on how certain things should be right?