Good manners can now get you suspended

originally posted by: tsingtao

how often do they take tests?

I believe it was a typing class.

I think we should take a look at the list of non-use words and phrases ----- which were displayed prior to this incident.

These words/phrases were not just picked out of thin air. There is a reason and backstory for these specific words/phrases.

Stupid (stupid dumb boring stuff)
Dumb
Boring
Stuff
"I don't know"
Other peer expressions
"Bless You"
"Hang Out"
"My Bad"

To me this sounds like a really good, competent teacher.

Look at the 2 expressions "Bless You" is with.

IMO this is not about God at all, but about comprehensive thought.

For some people, you throw God in the mix they become blind to any reality connected with it.

Rather than allow religion to transform them to a better person, some transform religion to conform with their personal failings (which we all have). If they are mean and dispirited, they transform religion to be mean and dispirited. God, then, must be mean and dispirited also, ready to lash out, as an insecure human being would, lash out at anyone who doesn’t support His all powerfulness.

We project onto God our own brokenness, making God into a broken figure, far from being all-powerful but as Someone who needs to constantly be made to feel secure by making sure everyone understands just how powerful He is, as a bully needs to bully others to feel powerful in order to overcome his brokenness.

I was struck by how the student (and many of her supporters) felt she needed to “defend” her God, as if He was not an all powerful Being but needed “defending”. God doesn’t need defending; broken human beings need “defending”, I.e. the Love and Compassion that Jesus spoke about and told us to do with each other. Jesus’s message was about defending broken human beings (even our enemies), transforming us (and others who then understand) by our Love and Compassion.

My personal opinion on this matter is that this young girl, new to the school and not liking this teacher’s classroom rules or structure, purposefully knew what she was doing and challenged this teacher‘s authority. It could be she welcomed the attention turned on her. It may be her way of dealing with her brokenness, some personal problems she may be having. Unfortunately adults have now selfishly used her and enabled her behavior, rewarding her actions rather than helping her deal with problems life, just being human, can hand us.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I dont think they ever implied education is mind control just the school system used in the usa. The american education system was designed to prepair students for jobs that no longer exist. Its format is dated.

originally posted by: Aural
The american education system was designed to prepair students for jobs that no longer exist. Its format is dated.

I think I agree with that, although they do try new formats every few years. Some good, some failure.

People who complain should be required to offer a workable solution along with their complaint.

How do you push millions of children, with different personalities, different needs, different cultures, different economic status, through a school system that is continuously getting funding cuts?

Here's one good one: www.ddsb.ca...

a reply to: Aural

How is the school system in the USA different from some ideal somewhere else? Where is the perfect model that should be used? What is different about it?

Every school is teaching young people how to think, read, write and calculate. In some sense, then, the very act of school is "mind control" of a sort.

Of course, that's not what "they" are talking about Aural ... if you pushed a little bit, you'd find that "their" thesis is that the American educational system has been corrupted by something they call "Cultural Marxism" because American classrooms typically deal with science, actual documented history and accepted academic facts rather than religious beliefs, Bible-as-truth and pseudoscience.

Go 'head. Ask them. Your mileage may vary.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: tsingtao


For some people, you throw God in the mix they become blind to any reality connected with it.

Yes, that's rather apparent.

a reply to: Annee
Ive experienced both normal classes and special ed classes. Both do not fit well. Special ed is a joke it was just spending more time on the same subjects but doing extra work on it. Its stagnant and dull and i feel like i missed out on some things from it. Also have moved before and the criteria is not standardized any i found myself redoing things in high school i did in middle school already.

a reply to: Gryphon66
Its pretty off topic. If i find the info i could PM it to you but there are different methods out there that are different and proven highly effective but they are fairly new. Im not saying its only america that has problems in how the education system is structured.

I wasnt aware that is what they were talking about i just agreed for different reasons. Science is a good thing.

a reply to: Aural

Don't take my word for what "they" are saying Aural ... I may just be and an old curmudgeon myself.

An argument often heard among those who favor right-wing politics, in general, is that the educational system in the US has been shanghaied somehow to produce good little Marxists who believe in science and facts rather than beliefs and religious stories.

It's a very complex argument that would indeed be off topic here.

Humorous to me that they're talking about political compliance to a "leftist" government when the public school systems of the 40s 50s 60s and even into today very commonly and directly tried to brainwash kids that the American Way was superior, that the Government and all authorities should never be questioned but only complied with, and that one of the greatest heroic acts was to give your life for your country in war; that's where all the flag saluting and allegiance-ing originated in the classroom.

Look up the "Bellamy salute" written by the same guy who wrote the Pledge ... if you really want a few chilling images.

a reply to: Aural

Oh, I agree. I was a thinker, a philosophier in grade school. Most public schools do not accommodate thinking.

People say school is bad today. The "old days" is selected memory. In the 50s, it was the same --- read, memorize, take a test.

My brother in first grade was tested at a 150 IQ. The school didn't know what to do with him, and pretty much just shoved him aside to work with middle of the rode kids. Not much different today. It had a very negative effect on him.

Now I'm raising a 6 year old with autistic behaviors. He taught himself to read at 3. In his special class they had him learning the alphabet with animal pictures. Now they want him to repeat kindergarten because he has no interest in writing papers. I'm getting him a computer and teaching him to type.

He starts regular school this week and we are working closely with them to make sure he gets what he needs. Parents have to get involved. It's the only way. But, I'm not going to blame the system. They do what they can.

a reply to: Gryphon66
I actually mentioned earlier how i was forced to do the pledge against my will endlessly every day every year by so many teachers. My high school also had army recruiters hanging out regularly around lunch time for some time before and they never just sat there theyd actively try to get peoples attention. It was odd to me. I have decent sized lists of odd things i witnessed in school that were brainwashing or conforming. Not all of it though.

Never liked the terms left and right for politics its too subjective and depends on what you compair.

a reply to: Aural

I don't like the simplistic political definitions either Aural.

But, around here, if you aren't "right wing" you're an atheist/progressive/liberal/socialist/fascist/etc.

A youth pastor speaks out

And what are Christians doing? Are they seeking to resolve conflict? Are they aiming to mend relationships? Are they supporting their schools? Are they even boosting their acts of love toward students in the school? No. They’re too busy waving their flags and attacking their enemy. And let me tell you a little something about their “enemy”. As a youth pastor, I’ve gotten to be inside the schools in all sorts of ways. I get to rub shoulders with teachers and administrators. I’ve gotten more access and liberty there than any other school ever. And the people there are amazing. I love them. Every single one. I have yet to meet a person at the school I wouldn’t fight for. I haven’t personally met the teacher in this story, but I’ve talked to her coworkers, students, and former students. And those people all speak of her using words like authoritative, great teacher, and kind (sounds alot to me like the God I serve!). And those people are now the recipients of all sorts of hate from Christians from all over the country. People calling and speaking horribly to them. Calling them names and accusing them of all manner of things. One office worker I spoke to was very obviously on the verge of tears when I was speaking to her. The school had a dramatically increased police presence for fear of violence (from Christians!!) and are prepared for, but hoping against, issues at tonight’s football game. Even an office worker at the other high school in town had been berated all week by these lovely Christians calling the wrong school!

What are we doing? Who have we become? What good does it do to speak evil to people? How are we giving God glory when we hurt others? We don’t need haters. We need Godly men and women. We need to be overwhelming God’s throne with prayer, for the students, teachers, and school. We need to be flooding the school office with support, volunteer work, words of encouragement, and acts of love. We need to be providing them with funds and resources to aid the less fortunate. We need to help clean the grounds. We need to help keep crosswalks safe. There are all sorts of ways we can help make the schools better, but yelling, name calling, and brow beating don’t aid a single one of them.

And here's a community newspaper editorial
It's a policy issue, not a God issue

As long as blind, rabid hatred is allowed to fester and be encouraged, we cannot survive as a nation. Ignorance and evil cannot be fought with hate. We will only end up devouring each other, leaving destruction in the wake. We need to speak out and question the motives of those who wish to divide rather than unite.

Uniting in love and compassion to work actively with solutions to communal problems, as this youth pastor says must be done, will go further than blind hatred and disunity.

a reply to: halfpint0701

Well yo be honest with you, I've read your thread and I've wanted to contribute to it, but being from China, it was hard.
Our school system and classrooms and the way their Structured and Governed it was just Hard!

So, I kept my mouth shout!

Now today I see this article and I didn't think of making a new thread I cam e here to continue with yours, I hope you don't mind.

Professor Bans College Students From Saying ‘Bless You’ In Class

WoW!!
Not the same State but, Forgive me for asking, I was taught in China Years and Years ago,,,,, That part of America is called the Bible Belt,,, Am I Wrong?
What's the Big Deal here, I have over the years come to Say,,,, GoD Bless You or just Bless You when my husband Sneezes.
I mean For The Love of God and Heaven Forbid!! What's this Professors Problem? I'm Not Now or Nor Have I Ever Been a Religious Person, Nor is my Husband, But, I have pick up the saying out of common Courtesy.
I know in China when it comes to the ruling of a classroom, there are Guidelines that are set by the College or Universities Administration ( local Government ) on the grading and attendance and course material.

I guess I'm asking, there's rules on attendance and conduct. this rules have to be in line with Academic Department guidelines and could not exceed the guidelines without permission, right?
I have two major concerns about the action of the professor. First, is it within the guidelines of discipline per the school. If it is his own guidelines, then he may have exceeded his authority by threatening grade reductions. As a rule, Can he reduce grades for non-academic reasons. Can he threaten expulsion unless specifically mentioned as reason in college student handbooks, They have a rule hand book Right?
Does it say, No, God Bless You, in any Class.
Second, if he carries out his actions and reduces grades for non-academic reasons, he could be subjecting the college to disciplinary action by the college's accreditation authorities.

OK, from the article and why I'm asking.

One professor at the College of Coastal Georgia has banned students from saying “bless you” in his class.
Campus Reform reports that Dr. Leon Gardner, assistant professor of chemistry at the College of Coastal Georgia, pointed out his six rules on behavior on his Introductory Physics class syllabus.
According to the #6 under the “Behavioral Deduction” section of the syllabus, students’ grades will be lowered for: “Saying ‘bless you.’ We are taught that it is polite to say ‘bless you’ when someone sneezes. However, if you say this while I am talking, it is NOT polite, it is very rude!”
Gardener states that a student may be deducted up to 15 percent of their final grade for any student that disrupts his class. He goes on to say in the syllabus that saying “bless you” may result in an immediate 1 percent grade deduction for each occurrence.
“Especially egregious behavior could result in expulsion from the class, withdrawal from the course, and disciplinary action from the college,” his syllabus warns students.

Link
Thanks for any Professors out there in ATS land that know the answers.
Also, I'm not trying to derail or commandeer the thread, just bring to light another very similar insistent. ( did i get that word right? )

a reply to: Krazysh0t


I think you misconstrued the article here Mr. "Devils Advocate". She said Bless you as a matter of courtesy and her retarded teacher jumped down her throat. I HIGHLY doubt that she said Bless You for religious reasons. It's second nature to most people to say Bless you. After her teacher jumped down her throat it then became a religious issue.

a reply to: halfpint0701

Ultimately it is a religious blessing...

But I'll be 'damned' if it should be banned from our schools.

....Luckily this was a bad choice of 1 stupid teacher, not a decision made by the school or administration...


Otherwise this is would we would end up seeing:

Random Girl at school lunch period #1: So yesterday in church we were reading the bible and...

Security Guard: Excuse me miss, this is a public area. We cannot allow this kind of discussion here. Please stop discussing offensive materials.

Random Girl at school lunch period #2: No no, she was just talking about her bible study last ...

Security Guard: Okay you want to play games, let's go to OCD (on campus detention).

originally posted by: chuck258
a reply to: Krazysh0t


I think you misconstrued the article here Mr. "Devils Advocate". She said Bless you as a matter of courtesy and her retarded teacher jumped down her throat. I HIGHLY doubt that she said Bless You for religious reasons. It's second nature to most people to say Bless you. After her teacher jumped down her throat it then became a religious issue.

I think you didn't read the thread and if you had you'd know that what you said here is completely wrong. Actually check that, you didn't even read the post you are responding to. I showed in that very post that what you said above is wrong. So next time, take the time and catch up to speed with the conversation in the thread. If the thread is 11 pages long, there is a good chance that what you are saying has already been said, and it would be best to check so you don't look like an idiot.

a reply to: halfpint0701

thanks halfpint0701 for starting this ruckus
i hope it makes people "think" about what is happening in this world
and where they are trying to take us

oh,
and may we all be
BLESSED

I don't if anyone else has posted them but here's the supposed list of things to "not say" in class:
Dumb
Stupid
Boring
Stuff
I don't know (if you don't know the answer how else can one respond?)
Bless you
Hang out
My bad

I find the idea of teachers posting something like this Orwellian.
When you have to resort to listing things not to say or do you've pretty much admitted your failure as a teacher.

Good for this girl for standing up for her rights!
I'm sure the teacher has no problem being paid with money that says "In God We Trust" on it.

Just like people start looking like their pets or spouses after awhile, teachers and other school officials start acting and being like their students. They have more experience in HS than high schoolers though, which makes them so good at being incredible PITAs.