9/11 And the Chain of Conspiracy.

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posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 07:52 AM
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9/11 And the Chain of Conspiracy.


I have been meaning to write this thread for quite a while, its something that I have been talking about more and more on the 9/11 forum in my posts and thought it was about time I actually wrote a thread on it to provide further explanation. It is something that I have started to call the 9/11 Cain on Conspiracy, a metaphor if you like to try to explain some of the psychology behind the beliefs and motivations behind those who promote the idea that 9/11 was some kind of false flag event.

The Conspiracy Chain.


So, allow me to explain this chain of conspiracy. Imagine each link in this chain represents a claim made by those who believe there is a hidden nefarious conspiracy behind 9/11. So termite would be one link, Bin Ladin being CIA is another, symmetry of collapse, NORAD, the hole in the pentagon, operation northwoods and so on and so on. Each of these claims in isolation represents one link in the chain.

The sum of those links make up a chain which in itself makes up the wider 9/11 false flag conspiracy. Depending on the individual what makes up these links may differ slightly, for example rather than therimite a individual may replace this link with a mini-nuke or may believe that both make up their understanding of the wider 9/11 conspiracy. However the end result is the same, the individual “truther” has a collection of claims (links in the chain) that when all linked up together point to a false flag conspiracy (the chain of conspiracy)

With me so far?

Good.

Building the Chain

Now when it comes to building the chain of conspiracy things become interesting for example I am going to use the claim that therimite was used to demolish the three towers that day (NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD) as a link.

Truthers in my experience tend to start of with what they perceive to be their strongest link, for augments sake lets say a corner stone of their beief is that they have been told there exists evidence that thermite was used in the demolition of the towers. From this other links start to emerge such as molten steel being found, they then look for more links and perhaps find a video like lose change or Dr Jones Hypothesis. Before you know it they have found many of these links and have developed a chain of conspiracy that says 9/11 was a false flag. They have developed a confirmation bias, they now only seek out information that will further strengthen their chain.

Why this happens, why they believe in these conspiracies has a much deeper psychological reason behind it that its not the topic of this thread however it is important to have a understanding of why people believe in conspiracies. This video and the links below will provide some explanation.


Why Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories
Why people believe in conspiracy theories

The Weak Links.

This is where we get to debunking 9/11, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

So again, thermite, lets assume for a moment that a debate is taking place during which a truther is making a claim that 9/11 has to be a false flag because he/she claims to have evidence of thermite. If as skeptics of the conspiracies we take this claim and “debunk” it or even if we cast serious doubt up on it we break the chain and with it we break the chain and the whole conspiracy starts to fall to bits.

With each link that is weakened or broken the conspiracy falls apart.

And that is why there are many truthers who not mater how much proof you show them, no matter how much logic you apply will never admit to that link being broken because for them 9/11 is much more than just another conspiracy its a way of life, it forms their entire world view its a major component to their personal identify, it is almost akin to a religious calling. When we start breaking those links they do not like it, they will be head strong in their refusal to concede even the smallest of points because they know that every time a link is broken their very out look on the world is being crushed.

The get around this by jumping from one link back to another, once thermite has been challenged they move to the hole in the pentagon once that has been explained to them they move on to the missing trillions then onto WTC-7 and all the way back again even if it is totally of-topic.


edit on 12-8-2014 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 07:56 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Oh geez ...Here we go again........

Let's cut the BS your title needs to read "how to debate a truther "

Maybe I should make a thread called "9/11 the attack that tightened the chains around the american people"








Just saying....
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posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: LightningStrikesHere




Maybe I should make a thread called "9/11 the attack that tightened the chains around the american people"


Go for it, sounds like a good thread.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
, you may have acquired the cognitive dissonance ,,,& have generated this elaborate Chain of Conspiracy fallacy too help cope..

Psychologists Explain 911 Denial



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


nice chain pic.

Carry on.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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a reply to: ShadowChatter



you may have acquired the cognitive dissonance


That is possible although I would personally say I am not being clouded by cognitive dissonance, I am a guy who used to believe the 9/11 conspiracy I changed my views and as i have said time and time again my views are changeable again should i see evidence that is substantial enough to change my views.

I quite openly acknowledge that the official narrative of what happened that day has some holes, it is far from perfect.

With regards to the video, Its been posted on ATS a few times and my reaction is always the same, the exact same can be said of trutehrs, in fact you could actually say even more so.



have generated this elaborate Chain of Conspiracy fallacy too help cope..


That i would have to disagree with you on.

its not a way for me to cope.

its a way for me to try to better understand truthers, their conspiracies, why the refuse to listen to reason and so on.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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I'm sorry......but what a silly thread !



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: lambros56
I'm sorry......but what a silly thread !


And what a wonderfully solid rebuttal of my thread

Bravo.

That must have taken you quite some time.

So well done.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



With each link that is weakened or broken the conspiracy falls apart.


Rubbish. You are encouraging ignorance.

Each link in your chain analogy has its own merits of truth and they absolutely, positively do not have to be linked to validate the whole model. The model can be invalid but individual parts can be dead on. Good models of the entire conspiracy are very few.

Anyway, it's a pyramid, not a chain. You don't have to have all the pieces to get to the top. You need most of them. You can infer things about the top from the arrangement of pieces. Where people go off the rails is thinking they need all the pieces assembled and piling in suppositions. The official story is untenable.

It's trivial to debunk the official account of 9/11. It's trivial to show willful concealment of facts. In order to make a truther believe the official story, you need to dedicate large amounts of time and money, hire specialists and technicians, have road maps, draw things up on white boards in stuffy conference rooms etc. Guess what, It's failed. You lose.
edit on 12-8-2014 by InverseLookingGlass because: lost thought



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


The get around this by jumping from one link back to another, once thermite has been challenged they move to the hole in the pentagon once that has been explained to them they move on to the missing trillions then onto WTC-7 and all the way back again even if it is totally of-topic.


Nothing in that 5 frame video; produced months afterward contained any explanation (video confirmation) as to what caused three highly fortified rings to be penetrated...

Planes that hit the towers did not blast straight through them like the 'plane' at the pentagon. Three rings!!!

commission; to sell the fairy-tale

edit on (8/12/1414 by loveguy because: fix quote
edit on (8/12/1414 by loveguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:27 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

No stink'n "chain" these ideas are not set in stone for those with open minds, the reality is pretty, scratch that, very clear that the Official Story is a Fabrication. Everything has changed in the USA because of 911 and those changes have ALL been detrimental to the Working Class and Beneficial to the Rich.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:27 AM
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The first solid link I picked up was WTC7, this was not a bit of building crumble but the exact same regular pattern as every other controlled demolition I have seen. You are right that it has defined a part of me. If we are to go to war with so many dead and injured resulting in the regional anarchy we have today, does it not deserve the same dignity and review we would give someone charged with murder?

Digging past this miscarriage of justice we have the life blood of the nation with the oil men calling the shots. Without trucks cities stop and this cannot be allowed to happen. The reality was not this dire, but economic and geopolitical pressure was building. Also military jobs and whatever other reasons those involved had to make.

In our standard scientific view of the world there is only one chain of events, it may have many actors and many reasons but there is only one reality that we know of and all share. I have found the role of the debunkers to be vital and critical by providing the strong social foundation that freedom of speech is meant to give. I have had some long and hard debates on these boards over the years, I still often think of good old dave and hope he is doing well. It pushed me harder and deeper across this information quagmire that any new initiate faces when reviewing 9/11 for the first time. While I still have questions and uncertainties, it has made my chain of understanding so much stronger and overview of the situation that much clearer.

I know at times these discussions can be tough, frustrating, confusing, enraging and depressing. I thank you, ATS and all involved for them. While those behind these events ripped my heart out, being able to talk, learn and understand has helped it heal back, this time a bit stronger and wiser. I do not like where this fear is taking us, I hope we can find a fair and reasonable way out before it is to late.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Actually, there does not have to be some "grand overarching conspiracy" about the events of 9/11.
No, but it can not be argued that there most diffinately appears to have been a conspiracy developed in order to suppress the truth of who knew about what happened either before or just after the plane hit the first building.
This is where the OS can not hold up. Too much effort was put into disposing of evidence at every site and the, then current administration, efforts to not investigate anything is all too telling in my mind that things are just not the way they have been told. The disposal of this evidence, in itself, was a crimial act but I suspect these same people are involved with in the overall cover up conspiracy, so no prosecution will ever come about.
Some times stuff happens by coinsidence, but too many coinsidences begin to look very suspecious.
I am always skeptical of someone who says, "Ah, just trust me. I would not lie to you."
edit on 12-8-2014 by teamcommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Here we go again ...

There is no "believing" in a conspiracy ... read that statement once again "believe in a conspiracy theory". After which, you come up with millions of different angles.

It's not a belief, it's "disbelief" ... people who do not believe in the official rhetoric. And think there is angle to it, and therefore try to find that angle.

But, to all the government morons out there ... we suddenly are "people in denial". We are "denying the truth". Does that sound like some Soviet rhetoric to you ... suddenly, if I DARE to oppose the government, I'm suddenly a mentally ill person. Does it sound like some religious fanatism, when you voice opposition to people who blindly believe their "priests" rhetoric, we're suddenly heretics.

Nobody trusts George Bush ... and nobody trusts The US. George Bush, this guy literally comes out and says to the world "I've dreamt about being a war president". This guy is a certified nutcase ... he's a bloody retard, to say the least. And this is what the people of the US elect as their president? Followed by Mr. Obama bin Ladin, the guy who on his election night gave the people who elected him ... the finger. Yeah, yeah ... I know, he was just "rubbing his nose, with his middle finger".

If you believe what these guys are saying and doing to be true and just, especially after Collin Powell and the UN. You are in serious need of a brain surgery.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

you cite a MYLES video.....must be for the accent cause there is NO science involved.





This is where we get to debunking 9/11


let ya in on a little secret my grandmother told me.....PROVING the official claims AUTOMATICALLY nullifies EVERYTHING else presented!!!!

....but ya can't so you focus on this....rhetoric.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




I am a guy who used to believe the 9/11 conspiracy I changed my views and as i have said time and time again my views


please tell me what "changed your view"?

there is NO supporting evidence that supports the official claims....if you think so post it.

there is NO white paper evidence that supports the official claims......if you think so, post it.

so what changed your mind?
they holding your family hostage?...cause it aint the science.....



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: biffcartright




please tell me what "changed your view"?


Gladly, Around 2005 i saw lose change and found it fascinating I also started to read David Griffins book a new pear harbour and started reading up on line about everything that had been going on. I exposed myself to lots of conspiracy literature on the subject and came to the conclusion that two wars were now being fought over a lie. I believed that the US government was behind the attacks and that they were blown up in a controlled demolition and that Bin Laden was actually a CIA agent who was a front man for the whole thing.

I also happened to always have a interest in terrorism in Ireland and as i became more interested in the 9/11 conspiracy i also become more interested in Al-Qa'ida as a terrorist group. Gradually this grow until i took a course at university on the history and psychology of terrorism and was introduced the massive history behind Al-Qa'ida, this was around 2007/8ish. Doing this challenged my views because i was suddenly faced with what to me was overwhelming evidence that said Al-Qa'ida hated the west.

So it kind of sprung from their, reading more in-depth into the history and ideology behind Al-Qa'ida taught me that they had to be the ones behind 9/11. Once I started to see the 9/11 truth movement got one bit of their theory wrong regarding that, it seemed only logical to me that they could be getting other parts wrong.

And do I basically started to realise that many of their claims had other, more logical, explanations.

If you like i broke my own chain of conspiracy, I recognised that the whole "Al-CIAdu" thing was a week link and everything else started to fall apart from then on.

edit on 12-8-2014 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If your research showed you the history of Al qadia surely you found out about the CIA's invovment in setting up the madrasas and the radicalizing of young boys in the process. The leaders of the terrorist groups we face today are sure;y products of these schools.
These men seem now to be in their late thirties so they would have bee very young with pliable minds in the 1980's and 90'.
This was never a quick, jumped up program.
I have been thinking for some time that I should set down and reveal some things which I know first hand. If done right I just might be able to educate some people but I know there will be a price. The trick will be to lower the price to something I can afford to pay.
edit on 12-8-2014 by teamcommander because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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The reason rational people believe in conspiracies is because our elected keep getting caught doing huge no no's. And how they respond when accused is to stonewall.
Lets see someone take apart THAT chain.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:30 PM
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There is no CHAIN.It was not possible to build a chain, every effort was made on a Grand Scale to prevent this chain from being built,this in itself is all the proof anyone needs that a conspiracy does indded exist.

All you need to do is look at the entire picture and observe how many unusual out of the ordinary things happened before during and after the event.

You do not need a body to convict someone of murder and you do not require a "chain" of anything to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was an organised conspiracy going above and beyond the AlQueida part of the event.





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