Question ATS More…

a reply to: Liberal1984

Sceptic Overlord is part of the problem.

The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, which passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, effectively opened the floodgates for false reporting.

Wasn't it Orwell who said, 'In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

The honest reasons I like to use RT as a media resource:

1. If a celebrity took too many drugs and OD'd, it won't affect RT's broadcast.
2. RT is not pro-Israel, pro-Hamas, or full of self-professing Christian evangelicals.
3. RT provides some amount of history (there is noticeable propaganda in these presentations that centers around the character of the war-actors being talked about, rather than the events that happened) for many of it's in-depth stories.
4. RT's programs routinely have pro-west supporters on the show that do not agree at all with RT's company line. Many former American intelligence officers challenge the hosts of the show, on air, creating interesting debate.
5. There are no pharmaceutical, insurance, or Gold/Silver/Financial institution commercials WHICH I KNOW PAY THE BILLS OF THE MEDIA AND THE GOVERNMENT IN THE US regardless of what you think 'state-sponsored' actually means.
6. There is limited sports coverage, if any at all.
7. RT treats both political parties in America as the same thing, since they are.
8. RT represents a country that is actually in the part of the world where the events are taking place, which means the affect of those events could actually impact the people of Russia directly, rather than living on an island talking about being afraid of being invaded by countries who don't have aircraft carriers or operational air forces.
9. RT doesn't represent a country that is contradicting it's message by it's own actions around the world.
10. RT doesn't use terms like "islamo-fascist" WHICH IS FREAKING PROPAGANDA BTW, to try and sway people's emotions towards their intended objective.

There are many sites and news organizations that I would say the same things about and while American media infuses their broadcasts with elements of TMZ and ESPN, RT is accurately reporting that the US government is and has been involved with the coup led regime in Kiev and has no right to demand anything from Russia it isn't willing to do itself. As an American that is embarrassed by how his country presents itself to the world, I am thankful we can now have these discussions regardless if we agree or disagree with each other, in hopes of creating a more knowledgeable and informed world, that isn't afraid of information or where it comes from.

a reply to: Idahomie

Sceptic Overlord is part of the problem.

Of course he is! Anyone that uses his own alternative news forum to bash another alternative news outlet by comparing it to mainstream outlets that his own forum bashes, can't possibly be taken seriously. Luckily ATS is about it's members and not the silly gooses who want to censor people while accusing media outlets of doing the same thing.

what was it, Operation Mockingbird that was actually found out to be true where the US government placed actual agents inside media organizations? That was like the 60's or 70's so yeah, Edward Snowden? Bradley Manning? Come on, this info has been info before SO knew what disinfo was, yo. LMFAO!

a reply to: RisingTerra

There is an old addage that comes to mind here - "he doth protest too much"

And you do. You are doing. You have done.

Which makes me question your motives and reason for doing so - especially with the sly digs at the site and SO that you keep throwing in to the mix.

I'm all for open discussion, but you are - to use the venacular - pissing on the carpet now.

(removed)

There's not point in bickering with someone whose only intent is to bicker.

a reply to: neformore
Wouldn't it be wonderful if the world were easily compartmentalized into worn out cliches and overused misrepresentations of objective arguments?

You should "question more," things so I respect you questioning my motive and reasons. However, you should ask me the questions you want to about my motives rather than hint at innuendo. You say that I make sly digs but I would argue that your innuendos are sly and my observations of Skeptic Overlord are forthright. I responded to a post that literally said "Skeptic Overlord is the problem," and I followed up with saying that I agree, he is a problem. That's not sly at all. But quoting things in strange ways that inspire me to say it out loud with a British accent and pronouncing that you are now questioning my motives for "protesting," without actually telling us what you view as protesting, is a bit more sly. You remind of the gentleman that accused RT of doing exactly what he was doing in this thread. What does protest mean to you? I would say that I've asked a ton of questions that have gone unanswered (protests are usually saturated with statements). Maybe you wanted to use the word 'disagree,' but to say 'protest,' is a bit overdramatic and needlessly emotional. I haven't said one negative thing about ATS and in fact I believe I said the best part about the site was it's members and how engaged they are.

It's important to be specific and not just say things because half of what somebody says might be half true. It's not a dig to ATS to mention that the owner of the site that promotes conspiracy theories is bad mouthing another alternative news source that is more popular and caters to a more mainstream audience, while also catching some of the fringe collective. If the owner of one outlet is going to bash on the owner of another outlet, there is the possibility of a conflict of interest. That's just being a responsible consumer of information. Being aware of something, or bringing awareness to other people, is not a protest either. It's also important for us to hold each other accountable so that the conversation remains fresh, intellectual and pointed towards discovering more truth rather than collecting stars and convincing people to agree with us. I encourage you to read through some of my posts, I even include a twitter handle so you can know what I do and who I'm affiliated with, to understand that I'm trying to hold all news sources accountable, rather than just making blanket generalizations without doing any research. That's a foolish approach. There are no secrets here or hidden agendas, just friendly questions and observations that have been met with a lot of half truths and opinions.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

There's not point in bickering with someone whose only intent is to bicker.

Those damn "not points." Yes Skeptic Overload, it's a huge argument full of CAPS, emoticons and smarmy comments about Google up in here! How will we sift through all of this hatred and emotion? This has become more emo than 8th grade. How can we get a word in edge wise with the clackety clack of keys? So much bickering!! Dude you are an admin for a message board, do you really consider this bickering? It's just a conversation with divergent opinions, not anything serious. I wouldn't want to bring seriousness into your life if you think this is bickering. I don't agree with your statement about RT and call into question the intent of why you would go out of your way to bad mouth an alternative news source that is more credible than your own. That's not a dig at ATS but to say that RT cannot be trusted because it is state-owned says what about ATS? Do you all only value mainstream news, even though this is an alternative site? I think you should let people watch what they want to watch without using half truths to try and make your point. RT hasn't done anything a mainstream news outlet hasn't done and it certainly is providing parts to the global narrative that seem to be overshadowed in America by who stuck what needle in which executive actors arm and which terrorist group is now attacking our assets with the weapons we gave it. Lets see the western media blow the lid off the story..........or wait 25 years when it's declassified and tell us that all of the loss of life was started by a false flag that cannot be reversed but could have been avoided. But it's been 25 years so who is going to really remember those million lives lost anyways???? Keep it classy 'Murica!

a reply to: Risinthe rra

There is discussion and there is evangelical fervour.

My views on RT were given earlier in the thread.

SO has expressed his opinion on RT, and evidenced his views of other media sites as well.

Right now - as much as I hate to say it - your posts read like a paid poster. You've gone past discussion into nitpicking while preaching the virtues of RT.

I get that you have an opinion, the same as SO, but you somehow appear to be wounded by his view and expect him to cave in to yours while bludgeoning us senseless with prose.

Is that clear enough?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Actually, SKepticOVerlord's avatar would beg to differ. It most certainly says "ats owner".

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

SO, i just wonder what's the meaning of this and should we expect every MSM to get this( state-run propaganda source)?!?!?!??!!?

rt.com...

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: Risinthe rra

There is discussion and there is evangelical fervour.

My views on RT were given earlier in the thread.

SO has expressed his opinion on RT, and evidenced his views of other media sites as well.

Right now - as much as I hate to say it - your posts read like a paid poster. You've gone past discussion into nitpicking while preaching the virtues of RT.

I get that you have an opinion, the same as SO, but you somehow appear to be wounded by his view and expect him to cave in to yours while bludgeoning us senseless with prose.

Is that clear enough?

It would be clear if you could point to any example to back up your overly dramatic writing style. Writing on a message board and using facts is considered evangelical fervor by you? Wow, pardon my fervor, I hope that none of it got on your shoes. My fervor tends to be messy. What I actually have is a "super moderator," on ATS in you and an "ATS owner," in SO, attempting to tell me I'm a paid poster and misrepresent most of what I've said, which was written with patience and professionalism, while both of you use half truths and flat-out wrong conclusions to try and dismiss me.

I "bludgeon us senseless with prose"? Oh my, you poor thing, have you been able to recover? I thought that just one word would do the trick but I had no idea that my words were bludgeoning or even physically held your head to the screen and forced you to read them. You know I'm paid COINTELPRO because I use words that you cannot look away from, nor ignore. They are that powerful!!! World power through word power! It sounds like you and the Ministry of Love are hard at work today. Does it make you feel better to believe I am a paid poster? Does that false conclusion and failed accusation based on zero evidence make you feel better about yourself?

Right now - as much as I hate to say it - your posts read like a paid poster. You've gone past discussion into nitpicking while preaching the virtues of RT.

Please expound on the "virtues of RT," that I am "preaching about"? I would love to know more about all of the virtuous language I use. I did say RT was no better or worse than any other news outlet and all should be scrutinized but you don't really seem to know the definition of the words you use so you are unable to understand their intensity. Should I now turn the spotlight on you and ask you why you go out of your way to misrepresent what I say through language that doesn't actually describe what I've written or how I've written it at all? That seems to be the behavior of someone that is looking to steer an agenda [goes and runs for his tin foil hat].

I get that you have an opinion, the same as SO, but you somehow appear to be wounded by his view and expect him to cave in to yours while bludgeoning us senseless with prose.

How is it that I appear wounded? You have already admitted that I bludgeoned you metaphorically, which would denote a wounding of some kind. So I should ask you, why do you feel wounded by my words? I definitely appear sarcastic as a reflection of the overly sensational characterizations of me like "wounded," "evangelical fervor," "paid poster," but those are opinions that don't actually reflect my comments.

You levy accusations in the same breath that you accuse me of espousing the virtues of RT, which I have not at any point done so I don't really know how to approach you.

Please share with me my nitpickings. You make a lot of accusations but you don't actually use examples to back them up. I would love to stay and chat but I need go punch my time card at Illuminati HQ in Langley with all the other trolls so I'll see you on the message boards later today. Believe it or not, paid posting has great vision and dental plans and you would be surprised by the babes in our cube farm!

Always remember the greatest virtue of RT that I've consistently expressed; RT is just like every other news outlet..........I'll let that ground breaking revelation sit with you as you cultivate your next overdramatic response but yeah that's how deep I'm in with RT and my fellow trollbots. I know, I should be so embarrassed by making such a profound claim but I'm going to stand on that incredibly brave and virtuous platform. I hope you will stand with me....

edit on 14-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Logged-in members don't get pop-up ads. If you're getting them, they're not from us.

Just wanted to let you know that I've been logged all morning and have received multiple pop-ads from Dodge about the Dodge Ram, on multiple pages on Above Top Secret. I wish I had a reason to use "Google is your friend," and reflect your snark but if this is how you engage people I don't even think Google would be your friend.

originally posted by: Nikola014
SO, i just wonder what's the meaning of this and should we expect every MSM to get this( state-run propaganda source)?!?!?!??!!?

The same happens if you link to VOA stories.

originally posted by: RisingTerra
It would be clear if you could point to any example to back up your overly dramatic writing style. Writing on a message board and using facts is considered evangelical fervor by you?

Sure - here's all your posts in this thread put together so they can be read in context with each other.

When you read them in that manner, its kind of like reading an advert campaign for RT. It is, of course, quite easy to forget one post and move on to the next. Me, I like to look at the whole picture.

Wow, pardon my fervor, I hope that none of it got on your shoes. My fervor tends to be messy. What I actually have is a "super moderator," on ATS in you and an "ATS owner," in SO, attempting to tell me I'm a paid poster and misrepresent most of what I've said, which was written with patience and professionalism, while both of you use half truths and flat-out wrong conclusions to try and dismiss me.

I said you are coming across like one. I didn't say you were one. That would be nearly impossible to prove.

I "bludgeon us senseless with prose"? Oh my, you poor thing, have you been able to recover? I thought that just one word would do the trick but I had no idea that my words were bludgeoning or even physically held your head to the screen and forced you to read them. You know I'm paid COINTELPRO because I use words that you cannot look away from, nor ignore. They are that powerful!!! World power through word power! It sounds like you and the Ministry of Love are hard at work today. Does it make you feel better to believe I am a paid poster? Does that false conclusion and failed accusation based on zero evidence make you feel better about yourself?

I don't need to feel better about myself, but if you feel the need to be sarcastic, so be it.

My observation here to this point is based on what I've read borne out of reading many forums over many years and seeing many different viewpoints. Not only have you snapped at SO's points but you have bitten hard. Really hard. And continue to do so. Now you many just be a passionate fanboi and thats fair enough, but, I am a moderator here, I do notice things. You claim to have been around ATS for years but your account is less than a month old. You've made 27 posts and 23 of them have been on this subject, 22 in this thread.

So when I see such dedicated time devoted, and the length of posts, to what is, ultimately a fairly trivial matter when someone has simply expressed an opinion about a news agency (one of many news agencies out there, but one that happens to be prominent given events in the Crimea and Ukraine) then the actual conspiracy theorist in me kicks in, and I have to wonder - why such a spirited defence. Why does it matter so much?

Please expound on the "virtues of RT," that I am "preaching about"? I would love to know more about all of the virtuous language I use.

See above.

I did say RT was no better or worse than any other news outlet and all should be scrutinized but you don't really seem to know the definition of the words you use so you are unable to understand their intensity. Should I now turn the spotlight on you and ask you why you go out of your way to misrepresent what I say through language that doesn't actually describe what I've written or how I've written it at all? That seems to be the behavior of someone that is looking to steer an agenda [goes and runs for his tin foil hat].

I just explained it.

Always remember the greatest virtue of RT that I've consistently expressed; RT is just like every other news outlet.

See, now thats concise, and to the point and what I'd expect from people with a passing interest in the subject who have had experience of media all across the world over the years and understand that truth is ultimately subjective to opinion and geography. One mans meat is another mans poision, one mans freedom fighter etc.... you get the point - but ultimately thats not what I've seen here. There is discussion and there is discussion

Of course, I may be wrong. I'm sure you'll tell me I am, probably with sarcasm/feigned indignation. But thats life on the internet, isn't it?

a reply to: RisingTerra

Just a very small sampling of innocent journalists Putin has murdered. "Question More" is a useful tagline for RT News' goal of discrediting Western Journalism...it is also a tagline that gets journalists killed in Russia.

July 2003

Yuri Shchekochikhin, a vocal opposition journalist and member of the Russian Duma and the Kovalev Commission, suddenly contracts a mysterious illness.

The Russian authorities refused to allow an autopsy, but according to Wikipedia his relatives “managed to send a specimen of his skin to London, where a tentative diagnosis was made of poisoning with thallium” (a poison commonly used by the KGB, at first suspected in the Litvinenko killing).

larussophobe.wordpress.com...

July 2004

Paul Klebnikov (pictured, right), editor of the Russian edition Forbes magazine, is shot and killed in Moscow. Forbes has reported that at the time of his death, Paul was believed to have been investigating a complex web of money laundering involving a Chechen reconstruction fund, reaching into the centers of power in the Kremlin and involving elements of organized crime and the FSB (the former KGB).

larussophobe.wordpress.com...

October 2006

Anna Politkovskaya (pictured, right), author of countless books and articles exposing Russian human rights violations in Chechnya and attacking Vladimir Putin as a dictator, is shot and killed at her home in Moscow.

larussophobe.wordpress.com...

November 2006

Alexander Litvinenko, KGB defector and author of the book Blowing up Russia, which accuses the Kremlin of masterminding the and Pechatniki and Kashirskoye bombings in order to blame Chechen terrorists and whip up support for an invasion of Chechnya (which shortly followed), is fatally poisoned by radioactive Polonium obtained from Russian sources.

larussophobe.wordpress.com...

Five days before the broadcast aired, shortly after he was interviewed for it, McGrory was dead. His obituary reads “found dead at his home on February 20, 2007, aged 54.” Five days after the broadcast aired, Joyal (pictured, right) was lying in a hospital bed after having been shot for no apparent reason, ostensibly the victim of a crazed random street crime. He was returning home after having dinner with KGB defector Oleg Kalugin, and had been an aggressive advocate for Georgian independence from Russian influence. The attack remains unsolved.

larussophobe.wordpress.com...

July 2009

On July 14, 2009, leading Russian human rights journalist and activist Natalia Estemirova (pictured, left), a single mother of a teenaged daughter, was abducted in front of her home in Grozny, Chechnya, spirited across the border into Ingushetia, shot and dumped in a roadside gutter.

larussophobe.wordpress.com...

А wide-ranging investigation by the International Federation of Journalists into the deaths of journalists in Russia was published in June 2009. At the same time the IFJ launched an online database[2][3] which documents over three hundred deaths and disappearances since 1993.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: neformore

My observation here to this point is based on what I've read borne out of reading many forums over many years and seeing many different viewpoints. Not only have you snapped at SO's points but you have bitten hard. Really hard. And continue to do so. Now you many just be a passionate fanboi and thats fair enough, but, I am a moderator here, I do notice things. You claim to have been around ATS for years but your account is less than a month old. You've made 27 posts and 23 of them have been on this subject, 22 in this thread.

And like SO, you only use part of what I wrote to promote what you would like to project. If you kept reading I mentioned that I have been a member here but lost my password and login information so I signed up again. So the conspiracy theorist in you was alarmed simply because you didn't read what I wrote for you and you decided to fill in the blanks on your own. I can't help that your reading comprehension is what it is, especially since you are a self proclaimed seasoned veteran of the internets.

If you don't like sarcasm, you shouldn't have confronted me with your paranoia when I mentioned I've left a link in the thread so you can go check out who I am, rather than try to guess or speak in vague innuendo. I don't know how much 'time,' I've devoted. I must say after reading some of my posts I've had a great sense of humor through all of this, which I can't say the same for some of you.

The OWNER of ATS voiced an opinion by saying that no information from any state sponsored media should be taken seriously and deserves no traffic. I think that's ludicrous knowing the lies and misrepresentations of most media outlets, state sponsored or otherwise, so it makes me think that ATS is just trying to drive traffic towards its site, which is also an alternative news site which is FULL of propaganda. Are the executives at ATS the only people that are allowed to make assumptions about others on the forum?

See, now thats concise, and to the point and what I'd expect from people with a passing interest in the subject who have had experience of media all across the world over the years and understand that truth is ultimately subjective to opinion and geography. One mans meat is another mans poision, one mans freedom fighter etc.... you get the point - but ultimately thats not what I've seen here.

Exactly my point! One person's RT is another person's FOX News and it should be respected without the ownership of an alternative news site telling it's members not to pay attention to another alternative news site that could be viewed in many ways as more credible, regardless of the state sponsored nonsense.

I would also like to note that I have encouraged people to watch other news networks, including all mainstream western outlets. I've encouraged people to read books and above all us, connect with people face to face in real time, away from these boards where so many people hide. I have not told one person to hide form knowledge, dismiss something because of a label I give it, and I've mentioned that the greatness of ATS is in its members. I've been consistent and non-emotional while asking questions pertaining to the specific points made on this site. By typing "I answered that," doesn't actually mean you have answered anything.

In many ways my comments have less to do about RT and more about the approach of some of the people in the forum.

a reply to: Indigo5

At what point have I argued with you about the deaths of Russian journalists? You have been trying to interject this issue into the conversation when it isn't relevant. Is RT killing them? Is Fox News launching the coup in Kiev? No, so relax. Every government kills people within their state. I haven't held Russia above anyone but I'm certainly not going to hold it below. If you would like to continue to throw the stones, be my guest but I think the US military has left enough dead bodies in the desert for no reason for me to think that another government is more brutal. The US government forces known as a police force, just shot an unarmed kid in St. Louis which has lead to protests and riots. What about the US police who beat peaceful occupy protestors? What about the village it accidentally carpet bombed?

It's all relative my friend, just like the news. We should be hold our own government accountable and worry less about what RT thinks of it. It's just a shame that so many Americans have to learn about their government from RT since mainstream news has a hard time showing the totality of issues that affect the citizens. To summarize: Russia killing journalists is irrelevant to the fact that RT has accurately reported US involvement with the coup in Kiev.

originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

At what point have I argued with you about the deaths of Russian journalists? You have been trying to interject this issue into the conversation when it isn't relevant. Is RT killing them?

RT's parent and owner is?

If Rupert Murdoch (Owner of Fox) was also the Dictator of the USA...and Fox had NO COMPETITION...and those journalists that challenged FOX's reporting were murdered, beaten, imprisoned by the hundreds...

Would you vehemently declare that Fox's reporting was just as credible as the rest of the world's?

originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

RT has accurately reported US involvement with the coup in Kiev.

Maybe a test case would be illustrative?

What has been RT's reporting on the "US Involvement" in the coup in Kiev?

Let's test "accurately reported".

RT NEWS:

Coups for export: US has history of supporting anti-govt upheavals

While preaching non-interference to Russia, Washington has been very active in showing its support for, first, protesters in Kiev and then to the coup-appointed government. The US participation in events in Ukraine did not confine itself to distributing snacks to rally participants, or friendly gestures of support.

“We’ve invested over 5 billion dollars to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure, prosperous, and democratic Ukraine,” Victoria Nuland, Assistant US Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasia said in December, 2013.

rt.com...

Wow...pretty damming huh? There a US Assistant secretary of State said it!

Except
(1) Strange that RT News calls a massive protestor driven revolution where the corrupt leader of Ukraine fled to Russia...a "Coup"??

(2) Did you search for the full quote?

Let's see what RT News...ahem...forgot to tell you...

Top US diplomat for Europe Victoria Nuland acknowledged in an interview with CNN Tuesday that Washington had allocated $5 billion to support democracy in Ukraine since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.

"That money has been spent on supporting the aspirations of the Ukrainian people to have a strong, democratic government that represents their interests," the US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasian Affairs said in an interview.

"But we certainly didn't spend any money supporting the Maidan. (The Square in Ukraine where the citizens gathered in protest...not coup)That was a spontaneous movement, which is a far cry from what we are concerned Russia is up to now in eastern Ukraine," she said.

wow...someone at RT must have missed the second half of her statement where she said the exact opposite of what they are claiming?
"we certainly didn't spend any money supporting [protests-or as RT calls it "Coup"]

So apart from the Coup vs. People's uprising..
Or that the 5B wasn't spent on the uprising, but rather over the past 23 years!
And none of it went toward the protestors...That was spontaneous..

If this is your chosen example of RT's "accurate reporting"...Hacked quote...claiming the 5B went to a "Coup" that was a peoples protest/uprising and omitting it was spent over 20+ plus years rather than on the protestors...or the part where she says the US spent nothing on protestors, that it was spontaneous....You are lost.

Geez...they got the story right except for any part of the quote or story that mattered to the truth?

a reply to: Indigo5

If Rupert Murdoch (Owner of Fox) was also the Dictator of the USA...and Fox had NO COMPETITION...and those journalists that challenged FOX's reporting were murdered, beaten, imprisoned by the hundreds...

You obviously don't know a lot about Rupert Murdoch and the practice of some of his publications. What' s that site you love SO? It rhymes with Lougle....... That's like saying the owner of a sports team is responsible for the player who bought the bag of coke from the hooker while they were in a visiting city. Do you think Raspy-Putin is mulling over news reports and stamping what he approves and disapproves, topless while wrestling a Kodiak bear? I'm sure he has his supporters, just like Obama does and i wouldn't expect it to be something it wasn't initially.

You are also completely lying when you say that RT has no competition. RT competes with every other news outlet for viewership (cable will do that) and ITARR-TASS is one of the oldest (1902) news services in the world. Thank you Russo-Japanese war! Not to mention the other news outlets in Russia.

Dude, I don' t have to play pretend fantasy games. I can know that George Bush was the president of the United States of America and the military he sent over to a country killed, beat, imprisoned people by the hundreds of thousands if not millions based on a false premise (kind of like the arguments made on this thread) and by our actions in the last two years it's obvious we have not learned much from those mistakes and the media in America has served as a mouthpiece for those in charge more than it has served as a check to the power that is. I don't think very highly of most news sources but when so few are reporting on the US involvement in multiple foreign coups, it's showing itself to be a useful resource. You may not like who they are, but that doesn't mean the information they are reporting INTERNATIONALLY, isn't viable.

All of you are already vehemently declaring that Fox is more credible than the rest of the world, by making statements that no truth can be found in state run organizations while Fox has shown to shovel half truths and lies around as much as anyone. They give a mouthpiece of people like John McCain to share with the world that he wants war, in multiple countries. I have yet to see RT continue to show Russian politicians trying to affect policy through the media. I expect media to affect how people feel but not policy and American news forums have turned into campaign platforms and little else. So I'm already saying that Fox is as credible as the rest of the world, it's the people in this thread that are saying it's better.