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posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: Liberal1984

Skeptic Overloads post about RT was strange, especially when RT has been consistent about its Alternative News coverage which I would think an admin of ATS would appreciate. Not AGREE WITH, but appreciate. His approach came off like he was trying to sell the ATS community on an idea that had no constructive point behind it, while also contradicting himself in the process. The Ukrainian crisis is highlighting this strange turn in obvious ways. The western media coverage is completely the same, blame Russia and Putin. The US media is completely on the same page with each other, as they are usually are. RT reports on that and their view of what is happening in Ukraine. RT isn't hiding the fact that American news networks are reporting on Russia's troop involvement but the American media is completely ignoring America's involvement in the coup backed Kiev junta. If Russia is more involved than RT is reporting, they are still reporting that some believe it to be true which makes the appear to have more integrity than the American news network that has John McCain detailing how we are going to help the Syrian rebels, or in his words "our boys," and then in less than a year has John McCain on television how we then have to go kill "our boys," because they are now in Iraq. RT is capitalizing off of, not disenfranchised Americans, but Americans who are tired of knowing they are being lied to. That isn't fictitious demographic based on paranoia but people in America are going to look for answers when they know they are being lied to. It's not hard to do what RT is doing. If they were lying it would be much more difficult but they just need to present their info and kindly step aside while American's fight with each other (which was a point Skeptic Overlord made that I agreed with, I just didn't agree with how he arrived at his conclusion).

ATS has changed dramatically in the last few years. Look at all the ads, the pop-up links and the rabbit holes that take you away from the article and the information that you are looking for so to see one of their leaders make such an incongruent comment is not surprising and more of a reflection on what ATS has become. It takes a lot of effort and sacrifice to stay true to your roots but as so many that have come before us, it's easy to be seduced by the pop-up harpies. The American media is treating the Ukraine crisis much like how it treats Israel; pretending that the only information that matters is the information it's presenting, no matter what any library on earth of conscious human thinks. RT is allowing for a broader, more historical and ultimately a more intelligent conversation about the state of our world and not just the STATE SPONSORED MESSAGE OF THE US.




posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Liberal1984

Skeptic Overloads post about RT was strange, especially when RT has been consistent about its Alternative News coverage which I would think an admin of ATS would appreciate. Not AGREE WITH, but appreciate.


This site was founded on the premise that there are, in fact, truths, facts and evidence out there that run contrary to most people's views and understanding.

AND that those truths can be best discovered and verified by first eliminating the very weak or false evidence.

DENY IGNORANCE...is the motto to that end.

In this way ...through debate and research...if most people were honest in their logic, thinking and debating tactics...then the lesser known truths would gain more veracity and credence as they are tested and the BS eliminated....vs. sites that just claim crazy stuff.

Believing in alternative truths does not demand that you accept FALSE truths or not search for objective truths.

Hell...I believe that UFO's and Aliens have visited the earth...and I also believe that 95% of the stories and evidence concerning the same are utter BS..and it discredits the remaining 5%.


edit on 13-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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Whatever happened to "Deny Ignorance"?

People on this site don't even seem to think rationally at times anymore.

Russia does not have a free press. RT is state run. It has no interest in reporting.

It really is simple.
edit on 13-8-2014 by Cypress because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:28 AM
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The conspiracy is strong within this thread...

After reading all of it...I just thought I'd drop by and share my opinion. I do listen to many MSM news, from overseas, from here in the Americas and from RT, also Al Jazeera once in a while. They ALL have a bias. ALL of them. Now if I could listen to and understand North Korea News, I'm pretty sure that those news would be more propaganda directly from the government than bias. I think that RT is pretty much the same and as such, I would agree with SO.

As for all the other off topic stuff that always comes up when questions arise about ATS, oh it's a government tool, it's sponsored by the government, it's just money making now....blah blah blah ad nauseum, well, when I don't like a channel, I change it. Seems simple enough to me.

Finally, I do have a bias. I do have a bias towards ATS. If I ever had an agenda, there's one for you guys that connect all types of irrelevant dots to try and make a point.

I do.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: RisingTerra

Please take no offense or inference, but are you a strong supporter of RT News? That is perfectly fine, and actually great as a diversity of views helps feed the healthy debate. I only ask because of your recent joining of ATS and the coincidence of your chosen screen-name "RT"? ..Is that a nod to a favorite news source?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: [post=18278058]Indigo5[/post




In this way ...through debate and research...if most people were honest in their logic, thinking and debating tactics...then the lesser known truths would gain more veracity and credence....vs. sites that just claim crazy stuff.

Believing in alternative truths does not demand that you accept FALSE truths or not search for objective truths.


That's well said Indigo. I just returned from a 44 state US tour (we drove) and said almost the exact same thing about the 95% vs. the 5%, in regards to the ET debate, with a lot of people we were working with. While I was in Corona, NM exploring the vast ranch areas I had the pleasure of photographing two black stealth helicopters that flew directly over our car at low altitude in the middle of the day. That experience reminded me that there can always be something more behind the story but it doesn't always mean there is.

What caught me off guard by SO's post was the dismissive way he approached it while somehow shining a more prestigious light on Fox and CNN simply because they had commercials and RT didn't. Logically we should dismiss and disregard any outlet (print, digital, A/V, etc.) that has been caught lying about any part of the news but we don't and so at the very worst RT is the same as everyone else. RT is taking advantage of wiki leaks, Snowden (not his old-news info but the hype around him for people who are just realizing what has been going on for over 100 years) the incredibly unprofessional spokespeople at the State Dept., and things Fox and CNN won't touch on for the negative light it would cast the US in. Just watch some of those interviews with Jen Psaki. Those aren't edited. RT just turns the camera's on and lets these people bury themselves and that's different than articulating a message that isn't true or is half true. Ukraine is on Russia's border, not Ohio's, so logically it makes sense for Russia to establish this as a national security interest since it is. If Russia wasn't in the Ukraine I would be surprised. Protecting their Black Sea Fleet and the limited number of Western water routes is a huge national security issue and supersedes the narrative any news outlet wants to make. That is basic civilization survival and since the US is the one that concocted the coup in the Ukraine, Russia will always be able to justify their strategy since their moves look more like survival and the US's appear imperialistic. The US wants to use it's colorful palette of creative language to assert it's presence worldwide for "peace," "liberty," and "justice" so that they can convince people they have a reason to be involved in the Ukraine as much as anyone but in reality it's just empire expansion. Russia is simply swinging at the softballs being lobbed at it.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




Please take no offense or inference, but are you a strong supporter of RT News? That is perfectly fine, and actually great as a diversity of views helps feed the healthy debate. I only ask because of your recent joining of ATS and the coincidence of your chosen screen-name "RT"? ..Is that a nod to a favorite news source?


None taken. Questioning and analyzing people and ideas is a great quality to have! I have been a member of ATS for a while, just registered under a different name because I forgot all my passwords. Fortunately there are still coincidences that exist in our world. RisingTerra is a twitter handle for what I'm involved with that has absolutely nothing to do with RT. I don't want to get into shamelessly plugging what I do so if you are interested, you can check it out. I think the ATS community would enjoy the work we do with music and science.

I am a strong supporter of people utilizing multiple research points and coming up with their own conclusions. RT is just one way in which people can discover new information while always remembering to keep their metaphorical or physical antennas, for our ET friends, to always be in a position of awareness. I hope people read more books, research more documents and seek out others to have face to face debates with that not only help combine knowledge but help connect people to each other so that we know information is okay when it comes from something that isn't mainstream. RT is not 'good,' or 'bad,' to me, it's just an articulation of someone's view, regardless of what I think of it. I take it for what it is, do my own research, read other news sites, but I never tell someone not to watch something or read something simply because I don't agree with that. That is insulting human intelligence and devalues knowledge.

My favorite news source is the experience that my brain has; no commercials and the state definitely doesn't sponsor it
.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: RisingTerra

Do you mind showing me where the supposed prestigious light was shined on Western Media? I can't seem to find it. From what I read of his posts, he flat out said he has problems with Western Media and their bias towards their political base. However, there are options in the Western Media. There are center/right and center/left feeds you can watch to your hearts content. Russia has one option. You will not see both sides of the Russian coin.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra


What caught me off guard by SO's post was the dismissive way he approached it while somehow shining a more prestigious light on Fox and CNN simply because they had commercials and RT didn't.


Frist off...I appreciate much, if not most of your post.

Secondly..The above is false. You have not been following if you think SO's post was assigning "Prestige" to Western media.

He made a CRITICAL distinction between Bias vs. State Sponsored Propaganda...as have I repeatedly.

Those distinctions are not un-important...Everything that defines journalistic integrity or lack there-of follows from those distinctions.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
Logically we should dismiss and disregard any outlet (print, digital, A/V, etc.) that has been caught lying about any part of the news but we don't and so at the very worst RT is the same as everyone else.


What you are describing is a precise example of the often employed logical fallacy of false Dilemma.

Logically we should treat the boy stealing a candy-bar the same as the man that robs a bank?

Western News/MSM can show bias while RT News can engage in outright State Sponsored Propaganda.

The choices are NOT to either treat both with equal credence or Dismiss both.

Rational humans are capable of objectively recognizing what the differences are and what the implies for credibility.

The same government that funds RT News also beats, imprisons and arrests journalists that disagree or "Question More" of RT News.

This thread continues to amaze me.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

I used the word "prestige,' to poke fun at SO's stature and ability to sway opinions in forums by using the term "state-sponsored." In the thread I made the point that if the US government is owned by corporations and special interest groups, then American news could be considered state-sponsored since those same corporations that pay the politicians, own the media. This is a philosophical approach, not one in which I'm telling you what to believe or that I am more "right," than you are. RT represents a country which is geographically more relevant to the issues of our world than our country. If our media is creating a narrative that is false, which it most definitely has, and RT can show it to be false, then it doesn't matter who pays RT's bills. That's what I've been saying. It's irrelevant who pays RT's bills if the American media is lying to its people. Since US media is supposed to be private and not state sponsored, then it is holding itself to a higher standard but if it doesn't perform as such then it isn't any different than any country telling its people what to believe. Don't like RT? Go to ITARR-TASS. Or is any outlet that isn't American, state-sponsored?

Is Itar-Tass lying too? en.itar-tass.com...




The same government that funds RT News also beats, imprisons and arrests journalists that disagree or "Question More" of RT News.


So the US governments starts multiple wars around the globe, beats the crap out of people and tortures others.....what is your point? The same corporations that fund Western Media poison the earth and imprisons and beats governments and societies that disagree with America. The US government committing genocide in the name of "terror," is a little more serious than accusations of Russia beating up journalists. You are the one that used the candy bar being stolen vs. a bank robbery so please remember the words you chose. I saw a journalist call RT out, on air, and she still has a job so not sure who is spewing propaganda now.




Logically we should treat the boy stealing a candy-bar the same as the man that robs a bank?


I don't understand why you chose to ask that question based off of what I said. The American media has lied about some pretty big things (Gulf of Tonkin, the War in Iraq, the Iran/Contra scandal, etc.) and we have forgiven it even though it has cost the lives of over 1 million people and drained our economy. So yes we should start to dismiss things that are presented as lies and not just say "oh, this isn't state sponsored so it must be more credible because of that fact and not the fact this network has lied to us to help the US government launch coups or wars."




Rational humans are capable of objectively recognizing what the differences are and what the implies for credibility.


Right, so if we are capable of objectively recognizing what the differences are, then we don't need people telling other people what to watch, what not to watch and why they should or should not watch something. Respect your own words. Let people decide for themselves and take in the knowledge how they wish, rather than trying to use shame to make a point. This echoes all of the things I've been saying. The American media is the 'boy that cried wolf,' and after it has been shown to lie and manipulate situations it would be in our best interest as an American society to seek out many alternative sources of media. Would you like to argue about the semantics between corporate sponsored media vs. state-sponsored media or is it safe to say that the people who control the money of the country, control the message, regardless of the use of vocabulary terms?

edit on 13-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

I cannot believe you compared BBC, CNN and others to a boy stealing a candy and RT to a man robbing a bank? Are you for real? Seems like many others here, you have been also fed by false information from MSM without even realizing it.

Do you know the difference between US and Russia? In Russia, the president controls everything. But in the US, president nor government can't make a single decision on their own. That's why media's in Russia are state-controlled, while media's in the west are controlled by God knows who. That's the main difference.

Stop fooling yourself that you life in a free world, because you don't. Not in Russia, and not in America.

You actually said RT is worst than CNN, BBC...Should i laugh or cry?
edit on 336k2014Wednesdaypm014 by Nikola014 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

I don't understand why you chose to ask that question based off of what I said. The American media has lied about some pretty big things (Gulf of Tonkin, the War in Iraq, the Iran/Contra scandal, etc.)


The US News Media EXPOSED those lies....and NSA Spying Scandal, Vet Affairs, IRS...and an endless list of other misdeeds and mistakes by our government.

And THAT is not even within the universe of possibilities for RT News, nor other journalists in Russia..

People's inability to grasp that seismic distinction is honestly lost on me.
edit on 13-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

Right, so if we are capable of objectively recognizing what the differences are, then we don't need people telling other people what to watch, what not to watch and why they should or should not watch something.


Explaining that cigarettes cause cancer is not the same as banning cigarettes.

No one is telling anyone what to watch or believe.

We are simply pointing out the facts that RT "News" is no such thing by any definition that matters to being the news.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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The American media has accused, not presented facts or evidence objectively, but accused Russia of invading Ukraine, being on the border ready to invade Ukraine, shooting down MH17, reigniting the Cold War, Russian expansionism, firing rockets into Ukraine from Russia, invading Crimea, doing nothing to stop the violence in Eastern Ukraine and have gone so far as to compare Putin to "Hitler." Please show me 1 million people dead do to Vladimir Putin [points to Iraq on a map].........

But the US isn't expanding? Where is the Ukraine located in regards to Russia vs. the US? Whose troops are stationed on the borders of which countries and whose bases are built on which country's soil? I'm sorry, I don't hear American media outlets willing to confront their government which is kind of at the heart of journalism.

In the thread to SO I made the point to say that I don't know how real "Operation Gladio," is or if Ukraine is really full of neo-nazi's like "The Truthseeker," may want people to believe, but NATO has expanded its borders right to the doorstep of Russia which was not what the powers agreed upon back in the late 80's early 90''s and the Ukrainian government is killing its own people. So maybe there really aren't neo-nazi's running the Ukrainian government but which media outlet called which world leader "Hitler"? And, regardless of what their societal belief is, a coup backed government in Ukraine is killing Ukrainians. We are telling Russia to ease the situation while we issue sanctions? We are promoting peace by sending in our head of CIA and the Secretary of Defense? We encourage good business practice by issuing sanctions to hurt the energy industry of Russia while we put the Vice President's son on a Ukrainian company's board?

We should be less Russophobic and more corruptionaphobic.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




The US News Media EXPOSED those lies....and NSA Spying Scandal, Vet Affairs, IRS...and an endless list of other misdeeds and mistakes by our government.

And THAT is not even within the universe of possibilities for RT News, nor other journalists in Russia..


That as really really funny! Do you really believe the American media exposed those lies? You don't see your own misstep. If the media exposed those lies then it never would have reported the opposite, initially.
It's not "exposing lies," when the information is declassified and you are just reading from documents, the same as a news script, without having 'discovered,' or investigated the facts before you were allowed to. That is being complicit to the system and not finding out the information when it can be most useful, like preventing the mass murder of millions of people via the military industrial complex. Why wouldn't they investigate the information that they receive in hopes of preventing human tragedy? If the media had really exposed the Gulf of Tonkin then the Iraq War never would have happened.

You think the American people know about the NSA, Vet Affairs and IRS corruption because of the work of the American media? Maybe you meant to say that Snowden would release something to the Guardian (All of which he reported was common knowledge to many communities and countries worldwide) then the American media would read the tweets and do damage control. The American media spent more time bad mouthing Bradley Manning than reporting on the fact that we killed our own people. When the media was pushing for the Iraq war were they discussing who sold the WMD's to Iraq in the 80's or were they discussing Iraq's links to 9/11?

Reading things after they occur is not exposing anything as much as it is just giving people confidence to believe what they already assume to be true in a time frame that is safely removed from the emotional impact point of the original event. In short it's called, 'covering your ass."



And THAT is not even within the universe of possibilities for RT News, nor other journalists in Russia..


You obviously have a bias against RT which is like getting upset at a library for the information contained in their books. You believe what you believe, you present it how you wish and I will do the same. Peace be upon you.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




Explaining that cigarettes cause cancer is not the same as banning cigarettes.

No one is telling anyone what to watch or believe.

We are simply pointing out the facts that RT "News" is no such thing by any definition that matters to being the news.


You are doing the same thing that you are accusing RT of; you talk about all of the bad things RT represents without acknowledging any of the good or how Western Media helped create RT through their own inept form of reporting. You are trying to diminish RT as a source of information, along with SO, by shining a false light on Western media thus attempting to influence people's opinions without actually siting a fact. So you definitely seem concerned with what people watch and believe since you go so far out of your way to use half-truths to try and make your point about RT.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5


You are doing the same thing that you are accusing RT of; you talk about all of the bad things RT represents without acknowledging any of the good or how Western Media helped create RT through their own inept form of reporting.


No it is not the "same thing RT does"...because I am simply stating facts, lest you want to argue that they are not State Run or that Russia does not suppress opposing opinions? Or that RT Reporters themselves have acknowledged the directive to deceive?

No US Media did not help create RT News. Putin created it to get his message out when the Western Media wasn't buying his BS.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: raymundoko




Do you mind showing me where the supposed prestigious light was shined on Western Media? I can't seem to find it. From what I read of his posts, he flat out said he has problems with Western Media and their bias towards their political base. However, there are options in the Western Media. There are center/right and center/left feeds you can watch to your hearts content. Russia has one option. You will not see both sides of the Russian coin.


You just shined the light for me, so I don't have to go back and show you. What options are their in Western Media? Who in the west is not blaming Russia and Putin? Who in the west is talking about WMD's and holding war crimes tribunals for the leaders? Which media network is calling for the bankers heads who manipulated multiple financial tragedies? Which western news outlet has shared information about the IRS or NSA that has lead to changes in the system and jail time for the criminals who imposed it?

As I continue to state, I'm not holding RT above any network but I'm not about to hold any network above RT. Each network has information but none has all of the information. As I've continued to state, it is on each of us to seek out information and not be afraid of the source in which our information comes. To dismiss RT and tell others to do the same based off of nothing more than your opinions, when western media outlets have been known to manipulate info just the same as anyone else, makes it seem like you need or want people to believe you regardless of what you have to say to convince them. Hmmmmmm interesting how all of a sudden so many posters on ATS are championing western media when the rise in the membership of ATS could be linked to the growing distrust of the media. Keep your foil hats on tight, friends!




posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: Indigo5

I cannot believe you compared BBC, CNN and others to a boy stealing a candy and RT to a man robbing a bank? Are you for real? Seems like many others here, you have been also fed by false information from MSM without even realizing it.

Do you know the difference between US and Russia? In Russia, the president controls everything. But in the US, president nor government can't make a single decision on their own. That's why media's in Russia are state-controlled, while media's in the west are controlled by God knows who. That's the main difference.

Stop fooling yourself that you life in a free world, because you don't. Not in Russia, and not in America.

You actually said RT is worst than CNN, BBC...Should i laugh or cry?


The difference between Russia and the US as far as the news agencies are concerned is a little thing known as Freedom of the Press.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
Who in the west is not blaming Russia and Putin?

www.dailymail.co.uk... ted-Latvia-leaving-UK-fight-Crazy-Ukrainians.html
www.theguardian.com...
time.com...
www.businessinsider.com...



Who in the west is talking about WMD's and holding war crimes tribunals for the leaders?

www.theguardian.com...
www.breitbart.com...
www.politico.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...



Which media network is calling for the bankers heads who manipulated multiple financial tragedies?

www.economist.com...
www.nytimes.com...
dealbook.nytimes.com...
www.newsweek.com...
www.rollingstone.com...



Which western news outlet has shared information about the IRS

online.wsj.com...
www.foxnews.com...
www.politico.com...


or NSA

www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.forbes.com...
www.wired.com...


There's lots more. Google is your friend. There's no reason to spread your own brand of disinformation, the material you claim not to be out there, is very much out there.




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