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posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




Maybe a test case would be illustrative?

What has been RT's reporting on the "US Involvement" in the coup in Kiev? Please briefly articulate what they claim and how they support the claim?


Fair enough.

Here is an audio message between two Americans discussing who should and shouldn't be a part of the Ukrainian government. rt.com...

Does Vladimir Putin have a son on an American energy board?

rt.com...

Why would John Brennan need to meet with a coup who deposed a democratically elected leader who was going to be up for reelection anyways?

rt.com...

I don't know how many people Vladimir Putin just killed while I typed this but I'm sure that he is ice fishing using the femur bone of an investigative journalist that got too close to his judo chop!




posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




If this is your chosen example of RT's "accurate reporting"...Hacked quote...claiming the 5B went to a "Coup" that was a peoples protest/uprising and omitting it was spent over 20+ plus years rather than on the protestors...or the part where she says the US spent nothing on protestors, that it was spontaneous....You are lost.



It wasn't my chosen example, it was YOURS! You just typed out a response, broke it down for all of us and then told me that if that is what I thought then I'm lost. That's a completely bizarre way to interact with someone; tell them if they are thinking what you are thinking, than they are lost. Okay, I'm not thinking that then. Am I still lost? Yes, the US has been involved with Ukraine for a much longer period of time than just this coup and had a humongous role in the Orange Revolution.

I never once claimed anyone spent money on protestors but I have said that the US has given other governments US tax payer money, which you just highlighted they did since the early 90's. It really doesn't matter when they gave it, they gave it and they are pledging even more since the coup.

Again the argument isn't about RT being better, it's about it being the same. If you are trying to convince me that RT fudges things, I'll repeat myself, RT fudges things the same way any other news source does. Is that clear to you and to everyone who needs to label RT as state-run propaganda news source). What a bunch of scared little children who have to put the star of david on people wherever they can find. I hope you do your homework and label every other state run news organizations the same way.

Lets see if you treat every news organization the same.

english.farsnews.com...

www.france24.com...

en.itar-tass.com...



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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What's the difference Skeptic Overlord?

rt.com...

english.farsnews.com...

www.france24.com...

en.itar-tass.com...

That's a really strange way of singling someone out and it's not consistent with how you treat organizations that have the same structure as RT. #accountability
edit on 14-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5




If Rupert Murdoch (Owner of Fox) was also the Dictator of the USA...and Fox had NO COMPETITION...and those journalists that challenged FOX's reporting were murdered, beaten, imprisoned by the hundreds...


You obviously don't know a lot about Rupert Murdoch and the practice of some of his publications.


Sure I do..and as bad as Fox News is, they aren't murdering those that disagree and they have competition to fact check them...without fear of murder.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
That's like saying the owner of a sports team is responsible for the player who bought the bag of coke from the hooker while they were in a visiting city.


More like the owner of a sports team...owning all the sports teams in his country...and holding a gun to the players head and telling them to snort the coke or die.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5




If this is your chosen example of RT's "accurate reporting"...Hacked quote...claiming the 5B went to a "Coup" that was a peoples protest/uprising and omitting it was spent over 20+ plus years rather than on the protestors...or the part where she says the US spent nothing on protestors, that it was spontaneous....You are lost.



It wasn't my chosen example, it was YOURS! You just typed out a response, broke it down for all of us and then told me that if that is what I thought then I'm lost.


Sure it was? It is what you cited?


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

To summarize: Russia killing journalists is irrelevant to the fact that RT has accurately reported US involvement with the coup in Kiev.


I demonstrated that rather than "accurately" report the US Involvement with the "coup" in Kiev...they brutally molested the facts and supporting quotes.

what are you missing?
edit on 14-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5
as bad as Fox News is, they aren't murdering those that disagree and they have competition to fact check them...without fear of murder.

Correct. However, the ownership did oversee the hacking of the devices of lots of people, including opposition journalists.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
What's the difference Skeptic Overlord?

rt.com...

english.farsnews.com...

www.france24.com...

en.itar-tass.com...

That's a really strange way of singling someone out and it's not consistent with how you treat organizations that have the same structure as RT. #accountability


you missed a spot



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Indigo5
as bad as Fox News is, they aren't murdering those that disagree and they have competition to fact check them...without fear of murder.

Correct. However, the ownership did oversee the hacking of the devices of lots of people, including opposition journalists.


And were exposed and prosecuted for it...In Russia, history demonstrates, that any prosecutors or journalists that brought a similair illegality to light would be arrested or killed..

seismic and foundational at every turn...the difference between Russia's dictatorial state run media and other free market outlets.

I am no fan of FOX...I consider them horribly bias...and that is why I think they serve as a good example of the fundamental difference...
edit on 14-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5




I demonstrated that rather than "accurately" report the US Involvement with the "coup" in Kiev...they brutally molested the facts and supporting quotes.


"Brutally molested" is a term that should be reserved for people who have actually been brutally molested. The way in which the story you chose reported the information, was not brutal nor involved molesting anything or anything.

"Accurately," was a term I used since they were actually talking about an alternative narrative other than just to blame Putin when Russia borders Ukraine and the US doesn't. RT is giving a more rounded view than many western outlets and certainly more than the US's state position. I've already said, many times, that I have no doubt Russia has something to do with the Ukraine but that makes more sense than the US having anything to do with them since they literally border each other.

NATO brutally molested it's agreement to not expand east towards Russia but that didn't seem to matter. Putin has made a stand against the missile defense systems in Eastern Europe since Bush so I don't know what your aim is.

I included three stories that show a level of US involvement in the Ukraine crisis so please go and refute those. Every news outlet in any country has truth and half truths, throughout. You only respond to the parts of a post that fit what you want to say and you disregard the rest of them which is a reflection of the owner and moderator on this site.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord




Correct. However, the ownership did oversee the hacking of the devices of lots of people, including opposition journalists.


They hacked into a dead person's cell phone and erased their phone calls. Two people also died shortly after the investigation started. I have no proof of any wrongdoing in those deaths but anytime a high profile case happens and people die quickly thereafter it raises some flags.

Indigo, I stated before that you obviously have something against Russia because you are definitely not anti-RT you are anti-Russian which is sad in this day and age. No country is perfect and many countries murder their own, like the Ukraine. The US murders its own every single day. Sometimes it's by accident and sometimes it's on purpose but it happens. It would be in all of our best interests to focus on how we can positively change the course of the US involvement in foreign disputes before it does spill over and become a part of our lives here in America. RT will definitely sow seeds of discontent, which SO made the point of saying on a different thread and I agreed with, but a responsible adult will accept that information, vet it and not be affected by what they cannot control. At the end of the day you have to know where the information comes from so you can better understand the intent of why it's being presented. That's where I think we all see eye to eye more than you realize. Hopefully any truth that we can uncover about our government will be celebrated and lead to changes in which we can proud of.

I think you all really missed the boat on what I was saying and I certainly got off topic with some of you as well. There are many things happening in the world and we need as much info as possible. It's a shame that news outlets, of all varieties, have let down their citizens but we have to continue to allow the free flow of knowledge, whether or not we agree with it. We need to be stronger people who are less affective by words and more interested in positive actions.

People are getting brutally molested all over the world and rather than sensationalize and honest debate between strangers, we should apply the appropriate terms to all things so they can remain in the spectrum of emotional reality.

Whether we agree or disagree we should be thankful we are able to interact so freely and hope that more people are challenging each other to know more, which is all I feel we have been doing here.
edit on 14-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

I included three stories that show a level of US involvement in the Ukraine crisis so please go and refute those.


No thank you...what you are doing is called moving the goal-posts..among other things..

Tell me if you can spot where you moved them after I addressed your first claim..


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
RT has accurately reported US involvement with the coup in Kiev.



originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

I included three stories that show a level of US involvement in the Ukraine crisis so please go and refute those.


You first claimed they were involved in the "Coup"...

Then, after I showed the utter failure of that claim, you changed it to the US involvement in the "Crisis"

You warped time...the "Crisis" followed and was the result of the "Coup"..and that is being generous in aping RTs description of a people's uprising as a "Coup".

NO...the US was not involved in the spontaneous uprising as RT falsely claimed with false quoting (omissions)

YES...the USA is involved in the Crises that followed, so is Everyone else...Of course..

edit on 14-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

Geez. No, i didn't move the goal posts. I added depth to my position by confirming that the US isn't just involved with this situation, it's been involved in other situations. The coup has turned into a crisis, so yes they are involved with both. That's why I included the audio tape of Americans discussing who should be involved in the Ukraine and who shouldn't. If you think that there was an organic coup in the Ukraine and the US just happened to be there to help out right after the initial violence, you are incredibly naive and we have nothing further that we can talk about because you are more concerned with being "right," than talking about the objectivity of the argument.

In one of my earlier posts I made the point to say that the US can't accuse Russia of anything that the US couldn't accuse itself of so at the very best for the US, it's the same as Russia and the worst it's doing more to hurt the situation with Russia. In fact in my earlier posts I even acknowledged that Russia is probably helping the Eastern Ukrainians because I am an adult who doesn't root for or against something just because I don't like the other team. Ukraine is on the border of Russia and from a national security position it would make sense for Russia to be involved in something so close to home.

Is Ukraine near Kentucky or Minnesota? I don't think so.

The US government is a part of the coup. The US government is a part of the crisis. The US government is leading the march of sanctions. The US is leading the march of NATO. What more do you need from me so that my position is clear and I can stop getting these weird messages of wrongful presuppositions?



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: RisingTerra

That post was a long list of various claims and inferences, some accurate, some false, mixed together and none of it supported by specifics, evidence or links.

I can see why you find comfort in RTs reporting.

No way to have a discussion here without going in circles.

If you are back to claiming that RT was accurate in it's repeated reporting that the US caused the populace uprising, then please provide some evidence of the same? Coercing a countries population (or great portion thereof) to oust it's leader would be difficult to do on the down-low?..

See it's easier for RT to call it a "Coup" in that regard, makes it seem like there was some military action by a faction of government, rather than an populace uprising followed by the collapse that ensued when Ukraine's former corrupt leader fled to Russia.

edit on 14-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: Indigo5




If you are back to claiming that RT was accurate in it's repeated reporting that the US caused the populace uprising, then please provide some evidence of the same? Coercing a countries population (or great portion thereof) to oust it's leader would be difficult to do on the down-low?..


I was never at the point of claiming the US CAUSED the populace uprising. I said they PARTICIPATED. What I said was that, "RT accurately reported on the Ukraine crisis," simply because they provided some kind of evidence to show that the US was participating pre-coup, coup, and post-coup. I also acknowledged that there was propaganda being used by RT and I accepted it because RUSSIA IS ON THE BORDER OF UKRAINE AND THE US IS THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY FROM IT!!!

I am honestly taken aback by the lack of reading comprehension from people in this forum. Do you understand the difference between 'caused,' and 'participated,'? It's a pretty major difference and it's absolutely pathetic how many times during this thread the wrong words get used, which totally change the perspective of the conversation. We can't communicate if we just start redefining words how they best fit your argument. It's very much how the western media works for those that want to accuse me of being a 'paid poster.'

The US has a history of toppling governments and with the evidence that not just RT provides, but other sources including many many many credible books, the US works with local operatives through it's intelligence departments to foment unrest in multiple regions. I feel like I'm teaching a freshman history class after that statement. The US has been complicit in manipulating actions around the globe and if you think that RT is lying about that, you are a fool. I'm not using the term 'fool,' as an insult but literally documenting the mindset with which you carried yourself through this conversation. The US involvement in Ukraine is bigger than what RT represents and you keep wanting to drag the conversation back to your topics rather than progressing the conversation. If you don't see a link to the US and Ukraine through the three links I provided then nothing I could say would register. I classified you as someone that is Russophobic because of your anti-Russian slant in most of your posts. You seem to think Russia is unique for how it treats people they believe could cause unrest. I don't agree with how Russia chooses to deal with situations but I feel the same way about most countries. The difference between me and you is that I'm not Anti-American but can still hold my country accountable when it's wrong.

You are interested in talking about what you want to and not debating other sides of the topic. You have shut down every attempt to engage appropriately and if someone doesn't agree with you, you try and talk down to them. And even worse, you misquote and misrepresent what other people say so that you can talk about the narrative you want to push. It's rather boring, honestly. If you feel Russia is the only country that silences people and/or reporters, then you are fool. There is a reason why there isn't balanced reporting in the West on topics like 9/11, the Iraq War and other issues that may be deeper than what the west is reporting. It's widely known that the government is and has been involved with American media for decades. Anything you have to contribute past this point will be equal to a child walking into a real estate office, attempting to buy a house with the money he won in Monopoly.


edit on 15-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

I was never at the point of claiming the US CAUSED the populace uprising. I said they PARTICIPATED. What I said was that, "RT accurately reported on the Ukraine crisis,"


You forgot to include your original quote.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

To summarize: Russia killing journalists is irrelevant to the fact that RT has accurately reported US involvement with the coup in Kiev.





originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

I also acknowledged that there was propaganda being used by RT and I accepted it because RUSSIA IS ON THE BORDER OF UKRAINE AND THE US IS THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY FROM IT!!!


Geographical proximity does not entitle any nation to Military Aggression or Propaganda? WW2/Nazi's/Goebbels? Much of Europe would be arguably be under Nazi rule today with that thinking.

I can't think of a valid reason for "Accepting" propaganda.



originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
I am honestly taken aback by the lack of reading comprehension from people in this forum. Do you understand the difference between 'caused,' and 'participated,'?


How did the USA participate in the uprising? How did RT News accurately report on the same?




originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
The US has a history of toppling governments and with the evidence that not just RT provides, but other sources including many many many credible books, the US works with local operatives through it's intelligence departments to foment unrest in multiple regions.


I am deeply aware of the USA's history and involvement in working to topple and overthrow various governments. You are conflating this with Ukraine...as is RT News. I think the difference between you and I is that you might have recently become aware of the same through RT News's "History Segments"...whilst I and many others of my age lived through the same. The scenario that led to the uprising in Ukraine was different in fundemantal ways vs. past scenarios where US Agencies encouraged revolution.

In short, Ukraine's previous President, Viktor Yanukovych, was not considered a threat to Ukraine nor US interests until he suddenly decided 9 months ago to over-ride his parliament and dismiss the European Union's bailout plan in favor of Russia's backing and a closer alliance with Russia. For a country who had struggled for decades to free themselves of Russia and succeeded, this naturally sparked immediate and fierce protests by Ukrainians who did not want to return to Russian rule...the protests were large and immediate and the country was instantly on the verge of civil war.

There is no evidence that the USA "participated" in that context. The world was taken by surprise by Yanukovych's decision to ally with Russia and up until that moment the USA treated Yanukovych as a difficult and corrupt, but still important, democratically elected leader of Ukraine. They had no interest in destabilizing what had been up to that point a European Allied nation and it's President. Destabilization would have just led to what we have now. Nor is it logical to think the USA was capable of mobilizing a nations population overnight into the Maidan protests.

USA's policy to the Ukraine crisis, by necessity and surprise..like the rest of the world..has been reactionary.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
I feel like I'm teaching a freshman history class after that statement. The US has been complicit in manipulating actions around the globe and if you think that RT is lying about that, you are a fool.


And I feel like I am debating with someone that thinks they have all the answers, when in reality they don't even know the questions to ask.

You seem proud of your recent revelation of the USA's misdeeds in the past. Keep digging..keep learning. You need to educate yourself on Ukraine. It is simple for RT News to laundry list scenarios where the USA has meddled in other governments over the past century...ditto Russia..ditto almost every nation that holds a modicum of power. It never excuses it, but it is easy to talk about Iran-Contra...it is muddy thinking to assume that any civil conflict around the globe is the same.
I would encourage healthy objective thinking and analysis of facts?


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
not using the term 'fool,' as an insult but literally documenting the mindset with which you carried yourself through this conversation.


No worries...I am not offended by you.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
The US involvement in Ukraine is bigger than what RT represents and you keep wanting to drag the conversation back to your topics rather than progressing the conversation. If you don't see a link to the US and Ukraine through the three links I provided then nothing I could say would register.


You keep flirting with words like "Link"..."Involvement"...painting a grey canvas where you can infer cause.
Yes, the USA is "linked" to Ukriane...same as the EU, Russia and most of the development nations. Yes the USA is "involved" in the crisis...as is everyone else...it's a global world. You continue to skirt specifics while infereing the same. It's dishonest. Come with facts or evidence that is defensible...not vague BS.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
I classified you as someone that is Russophobic because of your anti-Russian slant in most of your posts. You seem to think Russia is unique for how it treats people they believe could cause unrest. I don't agree with how Russia chooses to deal with situations but I feel the same way about most countries. The difference between me and you is that I'm not Anti-American but can still hold my country accountable when it's wrong.



Incorrect, but honestly don't care much about your misperception.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

Just going to shake my head for a bit more........In one post you accuse me of saying that the US 'caused,' the conflict, then you share my quote that says US was simply 'involved,' in the conflict. Can you see the difference between 'caused,' and 'involved.' I shared an audio recording with you that had two American politicians discussing who should be working in what capacity in the new Ukrainian government. They also talked as if they knew these men and had worked with these men in the past since they had a great deal of information to share about the knowledge of why each would be good for their specific role in the government. That shows a level of INVOLVEMENT. I didn't say the US picked up arms and started firing them at people. I didn't say they dropped tanks off or supplied arms. RT has shown that the US has been at the very least, consulting with people who are now in power, which was followed up by visits from high ranking defense officials from the US. This all shows 'involvement,' especially when that pattern has been repeated through other coups. ' The US has reported, inaccurately, about Russia's involvement. I remember when MH17 went down and they immediately blamed Russia, where as RT and Russia didn't jump at blaming the US. Every major network was railing on Putin and the need to go after Russia with even more sanctions without a shred of evidence being presented. You say I don't provide evidence? The evidence you provide, like 'cause,' vs. 'involved,' is as inaccurate as the intelligence used to invade Iraq in 2003.

The original quote about the Russian journalists vs. RT's coverage of the Ukraine was to highlight that the topic, at that point, was about RT's role as a state sponsored news organization and I was making the point that the US media hasn't consistently addressed the US's role in the conflict and Russia at least addresses the accusations that are levied against it. You all of a sudden wanted to interject that Russia kills journalists so because RT is state sponsored they should not be taken seriously because they may be killed.........After one of their most popular hosts, on air, opined on her distaste for certain parts of RT, as did another host. They are both alive and one still has her show on RT (that's evidence to counter your point). So no, Russia doesn't silence all of its reporters and Putin doesn't murder everyone that disagrees with him. I will be amused how you try and twist my language to counter those points.




In short, Ukraine's previous President, Viktor Yanukovych, was not considered a threat to Ukraine nor US interests until he suddenly decided 9 months ago to over-ride his parliament and dismiss the European Union's bailout plan in favor of Russia's backing and a closer alliance with Russia. For a country who had struggled for decades to free themselves of Russia and succeeded, this naturally sparked immediate and fierce protests by Ukrainians who did not want to return to Russian rule...the protests were large and immediate and the country was instantly on the verge of civil war.


Who cares if he was a threat to US interest. He was democratically elected and decided to change his path. Russia didn't hold a gun to his head or surround his country with armies, they made a business decision. Ukraine was supposedly a sovereign nation so why would anyone be upset, outside of Ukraine, about his decision? If you think that it's a coincidence that a riot quickly followed a decision that was unpopular in the West, and the west had nothing to do with it after leaked audio has them discussing key players in the makeup of what was to become the Ukrainian government, then you are refusing to accept certain parts of reality and will most likely refuse any evidence provided.



Geographical proximity does not entitle any nation to Military Aggression or Propaganda? WW2/Nazi's/Goebbels? Much of Europe would be arguably be under Nazi rule today with that thinking.


What military aggression?!?!?!?! I see Ukrainian aggression, killing of its own people, but I don't see Russian aggression in the same capacity. Are you comparing Russia's role in Ukraine to Hitler invading Europe? Are you one of these people that is comparing Nazi Germany to present day Russia and at the same time talking about propaganda? You double speaking reptilian clown. Is Russia invading surrounding countries and imprisoning specific groups of people based on their belief and/or heritage? I think if Russia is trying to prevent NATO (self proclaimed 'greatest empire in world history') from encroaching further than it agreed to originally, they are entitled to share information to the west, about the west, that the western media isn't reporting, while at the same time inspiring nationalism within it's own people which is what every media outlet does in their respective country's. Survival entitles every nation to use whatever means they can to help themselves against a foreign aggressor. US interests have expanded against Russian interest and influence and the same cannot be said for Russia. That doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Russia doesn't have it's troops in Mexico or Canada. Russia isn't waging coups in various parts of the world. Russia hasn't launched multiple wars in countries close to our borders. We don't live in the same region of the world that we cause problems in so we lack the empathy to understand the nations that do. If you don't respect that what happens in Ukraine affects Russia to a greater degree than it affects the US then you are geographically illiterate.

You don't get to say, "well the US does manipulate a lot of governments and institute coups but this time it's totally different,' after the carnage that the US military and government have caused for decades and is continuing to cause. Ukraine isn't sanctioning Russia, the US is, which is absolutely showing it to be complicit in directing the future of Ukraine based off of it's own interest and not that of the Ukrainian people. Or is this all really good for the Ukraine? Is all of this war better than just letting the elections come, which they were, and removing the president legally? A true democratic nation wouldn't have started supporting the coup led regime in Kiev that deposed it's democratically elected president, regardless of a business decision. That's not democracy. That is collusion. Sorry, if it looks like crap and smells like crap, I'm going be on the safe side and prepare for it as if it were crap.

I'll continue to enjoy your creative writing. Thank you.

edit on 15-8-2014 by RisingTerra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

In one post you accuse me of saying that the US 'caused,' the conflict, then you share my quote that says US was simply 'involved,' in the conflict.


You stated that the US was involved in the "Coup"...that is simple reality and I won't bore you with precisely quoting you once again. Being involved with the "conflict" or "Crisis" that followed the "uprising"..or as RT dishonestly defines it "Coup"...is very different than being involved with the actual uprising or "coup" as you claimed. If you are unwilling to acknowledge basic cause and effect or time itself, I can't help.

Coup-de-tat, by the way...is an illegal seizure of government by a SMALL FACTION of the military or existing government. Maybe ponder the repeated use of that term by RT in context of the massive people's uprising in Ukraine?

That particular semantic slight of hand (propaganda) seems to have found full traction with you.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
I shared an audio recording with you that had two American politicians discussing who should be working in what capacity in the new Ukrainian government.


You provided a link to an edited conversation with Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European affairs which was leaked anonymously on Youtube and was recorded and leaked most likely by Russia spy agencies.

At best it demonstrates her discussing who she would like in power in Ukraine and at worst a strategy to influence the same. DO you have any doubt that there a dozen different powers from the USA, to Germany, to the UK, to the UN to the European Union that are not having those same conversations?

What RT and yourself tries to infer is that somehow, ridiculously, that the US is and has been in control of those events.


originally posted by: RisingTerra
Russia kills journalists so because RT is state sponsored they should not be taken seriously because they may be killed.........After one of their most popular hosts, on air, opined on her distaste for certain parts of RT, as did another host. They are both alive and one still has her show on RT (that's evidence to counter your point). So no, Russia doesn't silence all of its reporters and Putin doesn't murder everyone that disagrees with him. I will be amused how you try and twist my language to counter those points.


Lord help me...you are confused.

There were TWO Journalists who PUBLICLY RESIGNED...both were NOT Russians...one was a DC Anchor and one was a London Anchor if memory serves. SO no...Russia doesn't usually arrest, beat or murder Journalists abroad as that would invite some international response they would not like. The reserve the beatings, arrest and killings for Russian Journalists that speak out.

You said that one of them is still on air? Incorrect...2 resigned: Sarah Firth, LONDON and Liz Wahl WASHINGTON DC...1 ABBY MARTIN Denounced Russia's invasion...She also is an AMERICAN in WASHINGTON DC ...Russia doesn't hunt journalists in the USA or LONDON...And while RT allowed ABBY to keep her job after the brief burst of near honesty, they also tried to send her to Crimea!



RT NEWS: In her comment Ms. Martin also noted that she does not possess a deep knowledge of reality of the situation in Crimea. As such we'll be sending her to Crimea to give her an opportunity to make up her own mind from the epicentre of the story.


That is a not so subtle message...you don't know what you are talking about, how about we send you to the war zone...

* If you need links I can provide them, but I thought it might be healthy for you to engage in a little google searching of your own rather than relying so much on RT News as your source.
edit on 15-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2014 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: Indigo5

You didn't specify ethnicity when you made the blanket statement that Putin silences journalists that oppose him. Since RT works for the Russian government, I thought they counted since you would argue they were Putin's employees. I didn't know you had such a knowledge or where and when Putin kills people. Doesn't the west usually support the idea that Putin influenced the murder of an opposing figure in London? So there's another exception to the ABSOLUTES you seem to be anchored to.

You are right. There is nothing I can say or provide that will fit the narrow window you continue to close ever further with each successive comment. There seems to be stipulation after stipulation added to anything that counters your point. There was a coup. Ukrainian people from the military and portions of the government were involved. The US was involved with those people. The US had direct contact and voiced its support for the opposition that lead the coup. The US has allowed the coup led government to lean on its protection to continue to pursue its agenda. The US government publicly supported the overthrow of a democratically elected leader and continues to do so. The US leaders have sent top defense officials to Ukraine to assist with the transition. The US has lead the charge since the early 90's to expand NATO to Russia's borders.

This is where US tax dollars have gone just since this spring.

Washington Post: US pledges $1 billion for military boost in E. Europe US pledges $1 billion to boost E. European aid

USA Today: US pledges $1 billion in aid to Ukraine
www.usatoday.com...

Bloomberg: US pledges $8 million in aid to Ukraine
www.bloomberg.com...

The Hill: US pledges $47 million in aid to Ukraine
thehill.com...

CBS News: US pledges $18 million in security assistance to Ukraine
www.9news.com...

Thank you for continuing to reinforce my points.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: RisingTerra

Can I ask you a simple question. Why are you only ever in this thread? You have spent days in this thread doing nothing but defending RT. Why don't I ever see you in any other thread talking about anything else? This is a big forum with many topics. Does nothing else interest you?

This was a real thread with valid opinions and criticism of the site. Now its just you writing a book on RT. I mean the site even labeled RT as state run propaganda and then their was discussion and the site took down the label. You were not in that thread at all. The thread were people were talking about the difference between bias and propaganda. Were most people said all news is propaganda. Thought that is what you were saying. So why were you not in that thread? Why are you only ever in this thread defending RT? It seems you have no desire to be part of the community. Just a desire to defend RT.

I guess that is your right. You can believe what you want and only discuss what you want. I was just wondering thats all. As I am sure lots of other people are wondering. Either way have a great day RisingTerra.

edit on 15-8-2014 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2014 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5

You didn't specify ethnicity when you made the blanket statement that Putin silences journalists that oppose him.


Citizenship and geography...not Ethnicity? You are getting stranger...Russia will avoid killing foreign journalists on foreign soil..the murdering of an American or UK Journalist in DC or London would be game changing. They regularly kill their own where they have complete control over news coverage and investigations or lack there-of. Do you really want to cast yourself as this dense to make your point?


originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
Since RT works for the Russian government, I thought they counted since you would argue they were Putin's employees. I didn't know you had such a knowledge or where and when Putin kills people. Doesn't the west usually support the idea that Putin influenced the murder of an opposing figure in London? So there's another exception to the ABSOLUTES you seem to be anchored to.



Yes, they poisoned a RUSSIAN DISSIDENT with a plutonium laced hamburger if memory serves...he was a Russian and not a journalist.




originally posted by: RisingTerra
a reply to: Indigo5
There was a coup. Ukrainian people from the military and portions of the government were involved. The US was involved with those people. The US had direct contact and voiced its support for the opposition that lead the coup. The US has allowed the coup led government to lean on its protection to continue to pursue its agenda. The US government publicly supported the overthrow of a democratically elected leader and continues to do so. The US leaders have sent top defense officials to Ukraine to assist with the transition. The US has lead the charge since the early 90's to expand NATO to Russia's borders.



Love it...wow that is like an RT Talking points memo on Ukraine!




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