September 18th, Scotlands date with destiny...

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: eletheia
I genuinely hope that if the Scots vote to leave the union that they make a success of it.
And I look forward to the end of Scots MP's having no more influence over solely English issues.

As WE look forward to all that lovely oil revenue funneling straight into Edinburgh and not London.. All things being equal.

a reply to: ScepticScot

On what?

I think you accidentally deleted what you wanted to quote.

a reply to: VashKonnor

Apologies on not so smart phone.

Your claim of German debt forgiveness.

a reply to: Hilux1996

And they want Scotland to join the EU. Ukraine? Cyprus? Greece? Croatia? Do any of these countries ring a bell? Taken over by the EU then bankrupted and in the case of Ukraine being led to a war by the EU and US against Russia?

We will have an election after independence. Even Salmond isn't stupid enough to accept the Euro, he has said so.

a reply to: ScepticScot
If it is a scraped 51% yes vote then I can't see the Orange Order staying silent, let's face it, Scotland does have it's own sectarian problems which are not really found in England. Just look at the disorder from a minority of angry drunk men every time Unionists have their marches.
I genuinely hope the vote will result in a mature acceptance of the result on both sides, but only a fool would not accept that there are a minority of violent people in both camps who will not be happy if it does not go their way.

a reply to: Soloprotocol



LOL ...

While still at school my grand-daughter ran a small cup cake business

subsidised by her mother supplying all the ingredients ....

Now she has a part-time job as well as the cup cake business, so my

daughter no longer subsides her by supplying the ingredients. She's

not a very happy bunny now that she only makes half the profit! LOL


Likewise


Oil may be lucrative, but there are also costs and it wont last for

ever. We are now getting electric and driverless cars ... and who

knows how soon or when something may be discovered/invented which

will make oil obsolete ...... Hmmmm don't count your chickens!.....

a reply to: grainofsand

I don't think the orange order will get riled up too much although they will vote for the union. What a bunch of losers they are...not because of their choice of vote but just because that's what they are. All the Rangers fans will probably follow...

I can say that because I was brought up in that environment.

Independence will not happen...Salmond sang it's death song with his fake watery hand wringing vision.

a reply to: grainofsand

You get numpties all over the world. In Scotland (really just west coast) religion is just an excuse by bams who probably haven't set foot in church since school. Doesn't mean we should suspend the whole democratic process in case a few people get the hump.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

As WE look forward to all that lovely oil revenue funneling straight into Edinburgh and not London..

Or Lerwick?

Love to stay and chat......but I'm off to the pub, play nicely children.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: eletheia
I genuinely hope that if the Scots vote to leave the union that they make a success of it.
And I look forward to the end of Scots MP's having no more influence over solely English issues.

As WE look forward to all that lovely oil revenue funneling straight into Edinburgh and not London.. All things being equal.

I am also pleased for Scotland to reap the benefits of any oil in it's terratorial waters, we do not differ in that regard ay all. Not a single independent economic study has forecast any economic disaster for rUK if you vote yes so it doesn't really concern me at all.
Plenty of studies indicate a net benefit to us without the oil because there will be no Barnett formula any more, but the fact is nobody really knows until/if it happens.

Yep, I'll be pleased for Scotland to reap any benefits it can gain from being an independent country with it's own resources, any doom claims for rUK without the oil are frankly ridiculous so I am happy for you to celebrate as much as you wish.

What relevance your comeback about oil has to my comments about the West Lothian question though, I do not know.
I was referring to the obvious unjust situation of Scottish MP's currently voting on issues that are related to solely English matters, while English MP's have no say in similar Scottish issues. Never hear any Scots whinging about that though do we.

a reply to: ScepticScot
Who suggested 'suspending the democratic process' because of the unique sectarian problems in Scotland which does not really exist in England or Wales???
I certainly didn't, perhaps you skim-read my post?

What really bothers me is that the U.K. being a union of England, Wales, N.Ireland and Scotland is that only Scotland gets a vote!!

This will affect ALL member states so why do we not all get a vote?

I personally think it will be a shame to split the union. I hate being ruled over by Westminster as much as the next man... there is the problem, the corrupt government, lets fix that instead of splitting the population.

a reply to: Mister_Bit
A large percentage of Scottish people have called for it for years, they've got the vote because of that, same for Wales getting it's assembly, even though it was a miserable 51% vote yes. That's democracy.
We can't really whinge about it in England when to date there has never really been any organised campaign asking for an English parliament/devolution or even for law changes to fix the West Lothian question.

Yes, the Scots asked for it and they got it so I'm happy for them. It makes it all the more confusing when people cry 'oppressed Scots!' here on ATS because whatever they have democratically asked for they've got so far, hardly tyranny is it, a tyrant that follows the wishes of an electorate.

a reply to: grainofsand

Ny comment was in regard to the theme of the thread that Scotland is danger of violence as a result of the refendum. Readers from overseas may be unintentionally mislead into thinking the orange order are a shadowy paramilitary organisation in waiting.

Apologies if it came across as dig at you. However it is important to point out that sectarianism us completely irrelevant to the vast majority in Scotland.

originally posted by: Danny85
Honestly, I hope they do leave and its nothing to do with emotional reaction etc. I've been thinking about this for a long time and i've gotten to the point that I really just want them to go. In fact if they have their vote and decide to stay then surely we (that's the rest of the Union) should be allowed to vote whether they stay or not.

Its stupid for any country that has been part of a successful union and have no plan on how to carry on without us. They wanna keep our OUR currency because they think its their right, but if they have a currency union they have no rights to tax rates, yet they dont have a back up in case, although I personally think they will go to the EU and become a new country in the EU and just use the Euro, and that's the plan for the Scottish government and they should say that rather than dance around the question.

Its a simply fact that with a union we were better off and at the start I did hope they stayed but with all the bellyaching that I've seen from certain but not all Scottish people i've reached the point of saying GO. JUST GO AND PLEASE WHEN IF (WILL) GO WRONG DO NOT COME RUNNING BACK AND AmSKING TO REJOIN THE UNION.

Hehe, get a load of this guy. "...our currency..."

If we gain independence then we will most certainly be keeping the pound. It's as much Scotlands as anyone elses.

Your kind worry about losing Scotland as an asset, lets face it. Cant blame you though, if the UK revolved around Holyrood and the English subsidised us as much as Scotland currently subsidises England i'd be worried too.

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: Danny85
Honestly, I hope they do leave and its nothing to do with emotional reaction etc. I've been thinking about this for a long time and i've gotten to the point that I really just want them to go. In fact if they have their vote and decide to stay then surely we (that's the rest of the Union) should be allowed to vote whether they stay or not.

Its stupid for any country that has been part of a successful union and have no plan on how to carry on without us. They wanna keep our OUR currency because they think its their right, but if they have a currency union they have no rights to tax rates, yet they dont have a back up in case, although I personally think they will go to the EU and become a new country in the EU and just use the Euro, and that's the plan for the Scottish government and they should say that rather than dance around the question.

Its a simply fact that with a union we were better off and at the start I did hope they stayed but with all the bellyaching that I've seen from certain but not all Scottish people i've reached the point of saying GO. JUST GO AND PLEASE WHEN IF (WILL) GO WRONG DO NOT COME RUNNING BACK AND AmSKING TO REJOIN THE UNION.

Hehe, get a load of this guy. "...our currency..."

If we gain independence then we will most certainly be keeping the pound. It's as much Scotlands as anyone elses.

Your kind worry about losing Scotland as an asset, lets face it. Cant blame you though, if the UK revolved around Holyrood and the English subsidised us as much as Scotland currently subsidises England i'd be worried too.

It is the Union's currency, if you leave you wont be part of the union, therefore it's not your currency.

a reply to: ScepticScot
Ah no worries and certainly no need to apologise.
I totally agree that to the average Scot nobody really cares for that pathetic and childish sectariansim displayed by the minority.
It is just a sad fact that often an angry minority can cause problems for the peaceful majority.
I'm sure that whatever the outcome then things should move on peacefully, I just hope it is an overwhelming result with a high turnout so we can all move on forward and finally put the issue to rest for another few hundred years or so.

The nightmare in my mind is a 51% vote to stay in the union then a 90+ percent vote for the SNP in the Scottish parliament and UK MP elections, then we go over this again and again. Regardless of the result, as a Welshman living in England I want this finally put to bed so we can all start planning for our own respective national futures.

a reply to: grainofsand

Kind of agree, a close result either way leaves the issue pending. As i have stated on another thread i am not a nationalist my reason for voting yes is it is the only way for any meaningful constitutional change. The current uk system is so broke to be beyond repair.

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: Danny85


I

If we gain independence then we will most certainly be keeping the pound. It's as much Scotlands as anyone elses.

Sterling was in use before Scotland joined The Union.

The pound Scots once had much the same value as the pound sterling, but it suffered far higher devaluation until in the 17th century it was pegged to sterling at a value of 12 pounds Scots = 1 pound sterling.

In 1707, the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland merged to form the Kingdom of Great Britain. In accordance with the Treaty of Union, the currency of Great Britain was sterling, with the pound Scots soon being replaced by sterling at the pegged value.

England gave Scotland the use of the sterling. And England can also take that away if it so wishes if Scotland does leave The Union.

a reply to: alldaylong

Do you really think for one minute the bank of Engand won't want Scotland to keep the pound?

The whole idea is a scare tactic and reverse psychology.