Reincarnation is a hoax !

originally posted by: SonoftheSun
a reply to: FlyersFan

So strange to read your story. I've written about past life recollections before on ATS but one that I have never shared was a death, not exactly sure which country, WW2, in Europe. By mortar. I saw friends fall first, then I. The big difference with this one compared to other ones was that through the horror of it all, my body lying there, missing limbs, about to die, I felt complete silence and serenity. No fear.

Sorry for the off topic post, Jesuslives4u. Just had to let this one out of my system..

Back to the regular programming..

I LOVED IT!

Thanks for sharing.

a reply to: ArtemisE

I know, no where in the Bible is there any mention of Kangaroos and Koalas, of all the things Noah would mention it would be these little furry things he saved.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u


So tell me why do you believe in reincarnation?

I don't necessarily believe in reincarnation. But I think just about anything is possible. We don't fully understand the natural world, or even what life is all about. So for us to try and quantify and qualify "life" using the particular subset or paradigm (the "Abrahamic" religions) is asinine and displays backwards thinking.

Your thread's premise is based entirely upon your interpretation of your beliefs which are based upon written words from stories of a "god" that were passed on through oral tradition before being written down years later by men. Whilst I can understand the steadfast and literal beliefs you may have, I cannot, in MY opinion, assign any validity to them as the basis of your argument.

Further, can you please supply a link to the story/article referenced?

www.youtube.com...

But seriously back to the topic, I once worked on a live aboard dive boat and seriously there are some people you meet where either you have killed them in a past life or they have killed you. No matter how much you try it's just awkward and unsettling.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u
I haven't read the thread as of yet. I want to respond to your OP while it is fresh in my mind.

So my question is very simple. To those of us that believe in a physical resurrection....... which one comes back at the resurrection? Does Sally come back or David? Only one person can come back so which one is it? Sally or David? Two bodies claiming to have the same spirit... over two life times however both bodies can not be resurrected with the same spirit.

You're making an assumption based on "abrahamic" beliefs. Their is no multiple personality disorder among reincarnationists. The lives lived in each shell(human body) are not the essence of the spirit. An actor is not the roles he/she plays. Neither is your spirit an exact copy of the life you are living now.

I understand there are many who believe that at time of death it is all over. Silence, .....sleeping whatever. BUT then Sally says something like above. So without getting religious ...... Sally has proved (like thousands of others who have had similar experiences) have and did DEBUNK those who believe at time of death there is nothing. So for those hard liners out there Sally has basically proven that there is life after death otherwise where did the memories come from? Right. HOWEVER Sally thinks she lived those past experiences when in reality she was shown these memories. I will expand on this a little in this thread however it is a different topic I will discuss in an upcoming thread.

Sally hasn't really proven anything, has she? She has given strong evidence that something is going on, but the immediate leap to reincarnation, and/or familiar spirits(demons) whispering in her ear, are both assumptions. Though reincarnation definitely has an edge over demons.

So the human spirit is unique to each human - individually made for that person - otherwise we would all feel the same, think the same, speak the same language possibly (we did at one time) and react the same to each situation.

Another big assumption based on Abrahamic beliefs. You believe that, because you were taught that. It is not a proven statement, any more than how reincarnationists believe. The spirit is not human, it is a spirit inhabiting a shell. You are a spirit having a human experience, not the other way around. Even the bible teaches that to a degree.

Nowhere within the Abrahamic religions does it show us that our spirits are recycled as some believe and it does not make sense does it? We are all held accountable for our actions both in this world and in the spiritual world. Most of us know right from wrong - thou there are those who refuse or better yet know but do not accept what is right or wrong - mans pride and arrogance.

You say that first part as if the Abrahamic religions speak with final authority for all humans. They do not. I assure you. And yes actually. It makes as much sense as Abraham's trio of religions. Right and wrong are based in group consensus, allowing for survival of the species, and social harmony.

To make things worse there are those who do not believe in NDE'S but yet believe the human spirits are recycled for new experiences etc....

I said this recently in another thread. If NDE's are an indicator of the after life. Then all religions, and atheists too, are correct. Just choose which NDE you'd like to believe.

So tell me why do you believe in reincarnation?

I don't. Neither do I "believe" in our(humans) myriad of religions many are willing to kill and die for. In my opinion only. In order for humans to ever get beyond our infancy, religion, as we know it today, must die, and never be resurrected.
Pun intended.

I don't. Neither do I "believe" in our(humans) myriad of religions many are willing to kill and die for. In my opinion only. In order for humans to ever get beyond our infancy, religion, as we know it today, must die, and never be resurrected.
Pun intended.



Have any idea how this could come about, Klassified?

a reply to: subtopia

Have any idea how this could come about, Klassified?

I don't want to de-rail the OP's thread, but for starters, government and religion must never be allowed to co-habitate. Ever! Adding to that, we need to start seeing ourselves as a species, instead of individual races and genders. It isn't going to happen any time soon. I'm afraid it will take a very long time, and billions more deaths before we truly understand the errors of our ways as a civilization.

What does religion have to do with reincarnation?
There are some documented cases that are highly credible that reincarnation exists. Calling reincarnation a hoax while pretending religion is real is just bizarre to me.

a reply to: Klassified

Seeing every human civilization has failed so far, not looking too good, which is where reincarnation kind of stumbles, you would think after all these multiple experiences our capacity to create a sustainable civilization would have improved a little.

From Jesus in the bible.

John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

What more do I need to say. Before Abraham was born on earth Jesus was a "blessed one"/"enlightened one"/Buddha/"or whatever you wanna call an holy one" connected to god/Yahweh(The existing ONE).

If Jesus wanna reincarnate than that is between him and god like it is with every souls and god.

a reply to: subtopia

I believe, and have been 'reinforced' in the belief by a teacher (and this was NOT in church) that once we've learned what's here to learn, we move on. We don't have to come back.

So - this planet is populated by "learners" - with the occasional ascended master returning to try to help.
But, it's their option to do so.

Jesus/Buddha/whoever - they CHOSE to come back, to try to help.
MOST souls here are at best advanced-intermediate. And they are here BECAUSE something big is happening. It may take hundreds of human years, but something big is going on here, and souls from all over the cosmos want to experience it.

The concept of Reincarnation is something I independently came up with when I was a kid (I was definitely NOT taught it - raised in the Episcopal faith)...I clearly recall being in the car with my mom, driving somewhere, and saying it out loud:
"I think we keep coming back until we get it right, and then some - such as Einstein, or Jesus, or Ghandi - CHOOSE to return here, to try to help."

What a seemingly futile endeavor, eh?? Or not. The tides are turning.
There's no escaping that we are in a new age.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

LOL!!
Yeah! I was just thinking that yesterday, while pondering my net perusals.

"I AM" - is every ONE of us. We all believe "I am", and we ARE. That's why I subscribe to the theory that we are all fractals of God....we are all particles of the Divine, living a physical experience. What each of us, individually, experience is part of the conglomerate "I AM" (we are) that is learning. Like tools, experiments, projects.
Honestly, it's the only thing that makes any sense (to me).

The resurrection stuff? Not so much. In fact, I don't think that's what the idea was supposed to be at all.

Reincarnation is not a hoax. It is reality.

a reply to: Fylgje

Calling reincarnation a hoax while pretending religion is real is just bizarre to me.

Me, too. Bizarre. Really stilted and contrived manipulation of ideas to make it "fit" a person's chosen comfort-zone.

a reply to: Wanderer777

Jesus says (paraphrasing) when you sit at my table,
You will be pure- how do we become pure? By transformation, not by magic. Our souls are eternal, so that means ( to me) that a transformation is a processional experience. And that transformation takes place on a soul- in a place. The place is called purgatory, not by God, but by man. We have names for everything under the sun, abstract or not. Nothing unholy can behold God. When we die, we pass through the eye of the needle. Or not.

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: Wanderer777
a reply to: ArtemisE

Actually I was faith healed. So a bit more than warm and fuzzies.

The placebo effect much???


I think the faith healing parents who have watched their children die rather then give them antibiotics would disagree.

For something to be proof it has to be repeatable. I doubt your willing to shoot yourself in the stomach and try faith healing again...



Funny how no one try's faith healing instead of stitches or a skull fracture. Has prayer ever reset a broken arm? Nope.


People only try it when your immune system is the real hero.

Mind over matter. Maybe if you instead pushed the knowledge of how it worked so that it was quantified and verified and maximized we could frankly get people healthy by both using the bodies insane healing mechanism and adding material chemicals to help it get well. There is a reason why intention->manifestation with a lot of energy/light/chi increases the bodies placebo effect. For the body to self heal the consciousness most lose all fear so that it relaxes and the process in the body losses the "fight or flight" response that keep the body from healing.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Like you said - everyone is entitled their own views and I agree. Butwhen peoples view consist of buddhism practices which is nothing more than a single man's point of view and not spiritual.

I guess I should have been more clear about what I mean about everyone being entitled to their own beliefs. What I meant was everyone is entitled to the own religious and spiritual beliefs. You see my spiritual beliefs are more in line with Buddhism. I believe in reincarnation and karma. Because I am a believer in karma I don't go around putting down other peoples religious or spiritual beliefs. For instance, just because I'm not a Christian doesn't mean I would say to someone who believes in Christ what you said about Buddhism/Buddha, that he was just a man and Christianly is simply Jesus' point of view. I would also never tell Christians that Christianity is not a spiritual belief or religion because it doesn't agree with my views.

That is the problem with the world, the "your religion is false, mine is the only one true religion. If you don't believe in my God you're going to burn in hell." This mentality has cause wars for thousands of years, look at the Middle East.

To be accepting of others and to not put down down someone else's religious and/or spiritual beliefs is what I meant when I said everyone is entitled to their own (spiritual and religious) beliefs.

ETA:
Thought this song by Common, G.O.D. (Gaining Ones Defintion) was relevant and though provoking

A rich man is one with knowledge, happiness and his health
My mind had dealt with the books of Zen, Tao the lessons
Koran and the Bible, to me they all vital
And got truth within 'em, gotta read them boys
You just can't skim 'em, different branches of belief
But one root that stem 'em, but people of the venom try to trim 'em
And use religion as an emblem
When it should be a natural way of life
Who am I or they to say to whom you pray ain't right
That's who got you doin right and got you this far
Whether you say "in Jesus name" or Hum do Allah
Long as you know it's a bein' that's supreme to you
You let that show towards others in the things you do

a reply to: Jesuslives4u
I think you would enjoy reading books by Michael Newton called "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls".

In a nutshell, over many years of past life regression therapy and getting similar stories from tens of thousands of people from different races, countries, backgrounds, sexes, religions.. they all esentially give the same description of their "spirit lives"

As for your question about which soul comes back, is it Sally or David? The answer is neither... Lets, for arguments sake call the spirit of Sally and David, "Spirit A"

Spirit A will come back to learn different spiritual lessons whilst inhabiting the physical body of Sally, David, William, Helen, Mark... They are all the one spirit, in different physical bodies.

a reply to: Klassified

you state:

You're making an assumption based on "abrahamic" beliefs. Their is no multiple personality disorder among reincarnationists. The lives lived in each shell(human body) are not the essence of the spirit. An actor is not the roles he/she plays. Neither is your spirit an exact copy of the life you are living now.

So you are speaking for EVERY reincarnationists? Was it by vote? Where did it take place at?

Mutiple personality disorder - What exactly do you mean by this?

Sally hasn't really proven anything, has she? She has given strong evidence that something is going on, but the immediate leap to reincarnation, and/or familiar spirits(demons) whispering in her ear, are both assumptions. Though reincarnation definitely has an edge over demons.

Who said anything about familiar spirits (demons) whispering in her ear? Are you putting words in my mouth now?

Ever hear of lucid dreaming?

Maybe you should have read through the thread before making your post?

originally posted by: Mister_Bit
a reply to: Jesuslives4u
I think you would enjoy reading books by Michael Newton called "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls".

In a nutshell, over many years of past life regression therapy and getting similar stories from tens of thousands of people from different races, countries, backgrounds, sexes, religions.. they all esentially give the same description of their "spirit lives"

As for your question about which soul comes back, is it Sally or David? The answer is neither... Lets, for arguments sake call the spirit of Sally and David, "Spirit A"

Spirit A will come back to learn different spiritual lessons whilst inhabiting the physical body of Sally, David, William, Helen, Mark... They are all the one spirit, in different physical bodies.

Hi

Thanks for your post. OK I see what you are saying. But again how can all of these individuals return at the exact same time during the resurrection when there was only one soul to begin with. The soul did not clone itself. That is not possible.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Hmm, not sure I understand what you are asking but let me have another go

Imagine you have a car, then you sell it and get another... by the end of your life you have had 50 different cars, it doesn't change who you are. You are still the same person, only the vehicles have changed.