Reincarnation is a hoax !

INTRO: She was only eleven years old but Sally remembers being a young strong man many years ago. She remembers growing up in England. She could describe the home she had lived in. She could even recall her name back then.... it was David. She talked about her previous life, about her family back then and how she dies in war back in WWII. She even remembered the street she lived on. Eventually her parents check into Sally's claim and sure enough everything she told her parents were true! The house, the soldier that had died etc....

We have all heard various stories like the one I describe above. Who would not be interested, right?

So my question is very simple. To those of us that believe in a physical resurrection....... which one comes back at the resurrection? Does Sally come back or David? Only one person can come back so which one is it? Sally or David? Two bodies claiming to have the same spirit... over two life times however both bodies can not be resurrected with the same spirit.

The title of this thread says it all. I know many people will disagree but first hear me out. This thread will be hard to stay on topic so my apologies to anyone whom I remind to stay on topic. As we all know there are those at ATS who love to derail any thread that they disagree with by going off into another areas that is not part of this discussion.

This topic could easily turn into a few books so as the thread grows I will add to this thread while remaining on subject. At times there will be references (books, authors, Youtube videos etc...) that will discuss this topic but other topics as well. I am only interested in what the authors say about this one topic. So please do not be misled.

In my opinion I believe it is essential to understand this topic. You should do your own research and you too will find the answers. To those who do not believe in the resurrection or in God and his promises this subject might help you in understanding life and death which could lead you to God. Maybe?? Seek and you shall find.

I think first there should be some guidelines to this thread by definition. According to Abrahamic religion, the soul is the immortal essence of a person or living thing. So this means the Jews, Muslims and Christians believe they have an immortal spirit inside them. That is a lot people with different religious practices and beliefs BUT they all believe to have an immortal spirit.

A human has the following attributes:

1. A human body.

2. A mind. (your thinking capabilities.....your brain)

3. A soul - also known as "spirit" (an exact copy of yourself inside you but in spirit form - immortal)

I understand there are many who believe that at time of death it is all over. Silence, .....sleeping whatever. BUT then Sally says something like above. So without getting religious ...... Sally has proved (like thousands of others who have had similar experiences) have and did DEBUNK those who believe at time of death there is nothing. So for those hard liners out there Sally has basically proven that there is life after death otherwise where did the memories come from? Right. HOWEVER Sally thinks she lived those past experiences when in reality she was shown these memories. I will expand on this a little in this thread however it is a different topic I will discuss in an upcoming thread.

So my belief - Once your human body shuts down and dies your spirit separates itself from the body. The immortal spirit is not to remain inside a dead body. The spirit that separates has all of your personal traits, feelings, memories etc... Basically it is you but in spirit form.

Since the human body is not immortal it must be something else that is immortal and this is what I call the soul or spirit. For future reference in this thread I will use the term "spirit" so not to confuse anyone by what I am talking about.

So the human spirit is unique to each human - individually made for that person - otherwise we would all feel the same, think the same, speak the same language possibly (we did at one time) and react the same to each situation.

Nowhere within the Abrahamic religions does it show us that our spirits are recycled as some believe and it does not make sense does it? We are all held accountable for our actions both in this world and in the spiritual world. Most of us know right from wrong - thou there are those who refuse or better yet know but do not accept what is right or wrong - mans pride and arrogance.

There are those who believe that we keep coming back for new experiences etc.... because Sally (an innocent) has proven there was a man named David who lived on a particular street in England who died during WWII but that still does not prove that Sally's soul was involved. Is it not possible she was shown these things, experienced certain false feelings and emotions convincing her she was David?

To make things worse there are those who do not believe in NDE'S but yet believe the human spirits are recycled for new experiences etc....

This is clearly contradiction designed to confuse those from the truth.

So tell me why do you believe in reincarnation?

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

One of the reasons Christians don't like reincarnation, which incidentally was part of early Christianity before Nicea, is that if one reincarnates, it proves that the soul is eternal and that places like heaven, purgatory and hell are all man-made threats in order to make people fear and follow the religious choice of their country. You sinners go to hell is a great velvet-glove threat that has worked amonst the ignorant and those who don't research religion so remain gullible.

Reincarnation is included in the bible because the question "Are you Elija" was asked which would infer that Elija had reincarnated and was standing before the questioner.

Reincarnation is included in the bible because the question "Are you Elija" was asked which would infer that Elija had reincarnated and was standing before the questioner.

You have that wrong. That is not what was meant in that verse because Elija left this world without dying. The person who asked that question have never seen Elija before and he was only going by what he was told. OT

The Jews were/are expecting the return of Elija but have you forgotten what Jesus showed John in privacy - when Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus and the three of them had a discussion? NT

Read the book - there is NOTHING in the bible about reincarnation. About the resurrection YES.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Do you have any scripture to support you? Also purgatory is a Catholic belief and that's very different than actual Christianity. Plus everyone is a sinner and God is merciful. Less people go to Hell than you think. Just because I have faith in something other than science and technology does not make me gullible. I have done a lot of research into religion and used to think as you do, but I got my proof and it led me here. I only pray you get yours as well. God Bless! Much Love!

Religion is a hoax!

Carry on.

originally posted by: Jefferton
Religion is a hoax!

Carry on.

Maybe ...... but God is not a hoax.

a reply to: Jefferton
Okay other than saying Religion is a hoax. What kind of evidence do you have? Because it's more plausible that society and everything we have to do to be an upstanding citizen of the world is more of a hoax. Religion as a whole is flawed of course but society is f**ked. Yes people fight over religion, but that's not religion's fault. That's mankind.

Slightly off topic, but Jesuslives4u may I draw your attention to your previous thread;

GOOD NEWS ATS - No longer will I make religious threads.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What happened?

originally posted by: flammadraco
Slightly off topic, but Jesuslives4u may I draw your attention to your previous thread;

GOOD NEWS ATS - No longer will I make religious threads.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What happened?

Thank you for your post. Many have made me aware. Please stay on topic.

Do you have anything else to add other than sarcasm?

a reply to: Wanderer777

I do not agree with your post, religion is the main cause of all the horrors in the World today, due to so many belief systems in the World and everyone thinking their religion is the only way to enlightenment. This has caused a lot of people to turn their back on religion.

Religion was IMO man made millenniums ago to install law and order into the primitive societies. Saying their populace will go to hell if you don't do A or B etc. Only difference today is we don't sacrifice our fellow man to appease whatever god you believe in.

I believe in Deism but religion has no place in today's society, and a good example of this would be the ISIS.

originally posted by: flammadraco
Slightly off topic, but Jesuslives4u may I draw your attention to your previous thread;

GOOD NEWS ATS - No longer will I make religious threads.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What happened?

Just like a politician. So what if he wants to talk about God? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you don't like it then go to another thread. People attack religion so much. It is unneeded and most of you are those COEXIST people. Not saying all, but most.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

You have this all round your ankles...it is neither David nor Sally, but the soul who has come back, the name is just a name, an assigned identity in order to differentiate between people within a given lifetime, it is still the same soul.

I personally take umbridge with you using the term "hoax" as this implies something is proven to be false, it is not.

You may not agree with the premise of reincarnation, but that doesn't mean it isn't real, it just means it makes no sense to you.

Equally there is no definitive proof of reincarnation, but your reasoning is flawed as, you are saying only one of those names could come back, forgetting that in reincarnation terms, it is the soul, not the name.

In conclusion reincarnation is like belief in God and religion....you either believe or you don't.

a reply to: flammadraco

Please keep your post aligned with subject matter - reincarnation

You are off topic.

Thank you

Just like a politician. So what if he wants to talk about God? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you don't like it then go to another thread. People attack religion so much. It is unneeded and most of you are those COEXIST people. Not saying all, but most.

I would say that the OP is the one attacking religious beliefs as Hinduism believes in reincarnation as does Jainism and Sikhism. With that in mind the OP is attacking other peoples religious beliefs that do not match their belief system.

originally posted by: solargeddon
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

You have this all round your ankles...it is neither David nor Sally, but the soul who has come back, the name is just a name, an assigned identity in order to differentiate between people within a given lifetime, it is still the same soul.

I personally take umbridge with you using the term "hoax" as this implies something is proven to be false, it is not.

You may not agree with the premise of reincarnation, but that doesn't mean it isn't real, it just means it makes no sense to you.

Equally there is no definitive proof of reincarnation, but your reasoning is flawed as, you are saying only one of those names could come back, forgetting that in reincarnation terms, it is the soul, not the name.

In conclusion reincarnation is like belief in God and religion....you either believe or you don't.

Thank you for your reply. A very well thought out reply! But I don't think you understood me thought - I put names to the individuals as a point to make - two people (two separate beings) who allegedly had the same spirit. This is impossible.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u
a reply to: flammadraco

Please keep your post aligned with subject matter - reincarnation

You are off topic.

Thank you

Its very much on topic, or are you one of these ATS members that does not like their belief system challenged?

a reply to: flammadraco

Everything you said was caused by MAN. The Bible doesn't tell people to fight over religion. Neither does the Quran. Most of those Islam extremists can't even read so they have to rely on someone who does to tell them what it says. That person can twist it all they want. Like the Catholics said "hey you have to pay these taxes to get into heaven" (not an exact quote haha). People in that day weren't allowed to even have a Bible. That's why Martin Luther was such a big deal. He was telling people what the Bible actually said. Now if the Bible was made up then couldn't they just include that part about the taxes when they wrote it? It's all mankind. We misuse so many things and people want to blame everything else but ourselves.

a reply to: Wanderer777

And all holy books were written by "man" who said it was the word of god.

We have a name for that today "schizophrenia"

a reply to: flammadraco
He didn't attack any particular religion. He called out ONE idea so hopefully someone that does believe in reincarnation can reply and share their beliefs. This obviously was not supposed to be a religion is a hoax thread, but a thread debating about reincarnation. But then all religion trollers come about and here we are. If you don't believe in religion then why even come to Faith, Religion, and Theology topics?
Could it be that you want to attack other people's beliefs because they don't match your own belief system?

a reply to: flammadraco
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Always have to go back to my good book.