Libertarians are we Conservative or Liberal?

Honestly, I don't have the energy for a really drawn out response (and the crowd goes wild! ). Yes, I had a great holiday.

The thing that I most wanted to touch on-- why do you believe that the relative advances in worker's rights that came after FDR would NOT have come otherwise? My own opinion is that many of the laws that were passed were passed specifically to limit the rights that workers might otherwise have claimed. If, for instance, a 40 hour work week had not been mandated, how do we know that we wouldn't, by now, be working 30 hour weeks?

By granting some concessions through law, the government served to limit the things that the labor unions and even individual workers might otherwise have accomplished.

An even better example of the way in which the government's regulations served to benefit the businesses is demonstrated by your statement regarding the potential lack of employment opportunities that workers face, dictating that, rather than negotiating from a position of strength, they all too often must negotiate from one of weakness. This is a direct result of the very deliberate efforts by the Federal Reserve's money managers to maintain unemployment at a "healthy" level of approximately 5%. The SOLE reason for this is to make employment a buyer's market-- the system is deliberately rigged so that there is ALWAYS a greater demand for jobs than there is a supply. The relative powerlessness of some employees that you decry is a direct result of legislation passed in the wake of the Depression, and passed for the benefit, as I continue to try to point out, of those who already held power rather than those who did not and still do not.


Regarding one of your other points-- I do believe that those who most crave power will always do whatever is necessary to achieve that power, and for just that reason, I don't honestly believe that a libertarian government could ever come to be. To put it bluntly, if a libertarian presidential candidate, for instance, were to actually appear to pose a threat to the hegemony of the two established parties, and if there weren't enough skeletons in his closet to defame and discredit him or any other way to eliminate the threat he posed, he would be murdered. Guaranteed. Those who have lied and cheated and stolen their way into positions of power are NOT going to give them up.

The reason that I promote libertarianism is that I see it as a way to at least slow the inexorable process in which we seem to be trapped. I sincerely have sympathy for your notion that the power of the state, overseen by an involved and aware citizenry, could be used to counter at least the most egregious abuses of megalomaniacs, but I also sincerely don't believe it could ever really work. If the citizens were genuinely aware and involved enough to see the abuses for what they are and were to attempt to limit those abuses, those who hold the power would simply drop the pretense behind which they currently hide and engage in their abuses literally at the point of a gun. The mechanisms for martial law and the detention of dissidents are already in place, and they exist SPECIFICALLY because of the possibility that the citizens might actually wake up to what is being done to them.

I don't see any way to avoid our fate, but I think that every time-- EVERY time-- that we the people hand the government a bit more power, no matter how admirable the nominal purpose, we bring ourselves that much closer to overt tyranny that much quicker.

I don't think we'll stop this runaway train, but I wish that people would at least stop stoking the engine...

Libertarians are neither liberal nor conservative. We're Libertarian. It's its own thing.

Conservatives want the government to pass laws to protect morality.
Liberals want the government to pass laws to protect rights.

In the end, both just want to pass laws.

Libertarians want the government to stop passing laws.

Really, Libertarianism is so different from the Conservative/Liberal ideologies that it ought to have its own forum on here.

libertarians somewhat defy the political spectrum

though i've always said a libertarian is an anarchist that has some money

My opinion only:

more conservative in general as they way I desribe it, but too liberal in areas.

I am offically a independent that voted Libertarian this last election cycle in some races but was glad some Democrats won some seats.

I mean a pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Physical Conservative - democrat......

hmmm

Wait a second, I sure hope they are not the last, but I will say this, I bet they love having NancyP as thier leader!

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Libertarians want the government to stop passing laws.

No... Libertarians want the "Federal" government to stop passing laws. They/We want State, and in extreme cases, city governments to be able to pass their own laws. If this were the case, for example, Wisconsin would still have a legal drinking age of 18. California would probably have legalized medical marijuana. etc.

We essentially want what the Republican government was "supposed" to be. Less Federal Government and more State control. There are, however, other huge differences between Libertarians and Republicans. Mostly in the areas of foreign affairs.

You are correct that we need our own forum in PTS.

[edit on 13-12-2006 by LostSailor]

Of course. When I speak of "the government" I generally mean the federal government, which has overshadowed state government to a ridiculous extent. People these days really don't understand what states are supposed to be. Under the Constitution, the individual states should really be more like the member nations of the European Union, with the federal government only in place to perform certain duties.

I'm just as much a states' rights advocate as I am a Libertarian, though in general I don't want any level of government to infringe on my liberties. For example: I don't want any state to ban recreational use of drugs, I feel that it's not the government's place to do this, whether at the federal or state level.

[edit on 12/20/2006 by southern_cross3]

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Of course. When I speak of "the government" I generally mean the federal government, which has overshadowed state government to a ridiculous extent. People these days really don't understand what states are supposed to be. Under the Constitution, the individual states should really be more like the member nations of the European Union, with the federal government only in place to perform certain duties.

I'm just as much a states' rights advocate as I am a Libertarian, though in general I don't want any level of government to infringe on my liberties. For example: I don't want any state to ban recreational use of drugs, I feel that it's not the government's place to do this, whether at the federal or state level.

[edit on 12/20/2006 by southern_cross3]

Ironically, the EU is the most libertarian government in existence, even though most of its member states are largely welfare states.