Ukrainian Su-25 warplane detected heading toward Malaysian Boeing

originally posted by: Indigo5
AND THIS CRACKS ME UP...

And, according to Russia, there was a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft flying — presumably — in the direction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Although the aircraft’s service ceiling is 22,965 feet — which drops to 16,000 feet with weapons — Russia said the fighter jet can reach 32,000 feet and easily hit a target nearly three miles away. Curiously enough, the Kremlin was caught editing the specifications on the Su-25’s Wikipedia page to increase its ceiling of 23,000 feet. It's also not an interceptor fighter jet — it's more of an attack plane for hitting targets on the ground.

mashable.com...

There is a youtube video that show a group armed SU 25 fly at 7500m = 24606 ft. That tok Place in 1995.

I am going to see if i can find the video.

originally posted by: whitepanther999

originally posted by: Indigo5
AND THIS CRACKS ME UP...

And, according to Russia, there was a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft flying — presumably — in the direction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Although the aircraft’s service ceiling is 22,965 feet — which drops to 16,000 feet with weapons — Russia said the fighter jet can reach 32,000 feet and easily hit a target nearly three miles away. Curiously enough, the Kremlin was caught editing the specifications on the Su-25’s Wikipedia page to increase its ceiling of 23,000 feet. It's also not an interceptor fighter jet — it's more of an attack plane for hitting targets on the ground.

mashable.com...

The Kremlin? Like actual Kremlin?

Was the nickname "VovaRussiaPutin"?

You accuse the whole government because of some idiot on wiki page?

Yes..It's funny..Unfortunately for the Russians...there is a world of aviation experts out there..

Now, experts immediately noticed some problems here—chiefly that the Ukrainian warplane in question, if it really existed, was identified as an SU-25.

It was sort of weird to hear a Russian general call the Russian SU-25 a "fighter jet." That's because the SU-25 is an "attack jet," a slow, heavily armored aircraft designed for close air support of ground troops. It's not designed to be very effective at air-to-air intercepting and dogfighting.

In fact, one reason the SU-25 is a poor air-intercept jet is that it flies much lower than most fighter jets. According to Sukhoi, the manufacturer, its service ceiling is 7 kilometers, about 23,000 feet.

How to account for the difference in facts? By covering it up, apparently. Interpreter Magazine, which is funded by a nonprofit critical of the Putin administration, confirmed that after the press conference, edits were made to the SU-25's Russian Wikipedia page—changing its maximum altitude to 10 kilometers, up from 7:

So who did the editing? Well for that particular edit, here's where the IP address of the editor leads:

That is not just a Russian IP...it is the KREMLIN

gawker.com...

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Indigo5
AND THIS CRACKS ME UP...

And, according to Russia, there was a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft flying — presumably — in the direction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Although the aircraft’s service ceiling is 22,965 feet — which drops to 16,000 feet with weapons — Russia said the fighter jet can reach 32,000 feet and easily hit a target nearly three miles away. Curiously enough, the Kremlin was caught editing the specifications on the Su-25’s Wikipedia page to increase its ceiling of 23,000 feet. It's also not an interceptor fighter jet — it's more of an attack plane for hitting targets on the ground.

mashable.com...

There is a youtube video that show a group armed SU 25 fly at 7500m = 24606 ft. That tok Place in 1995.

I am going to see if i can find the video.

Good luck with that. Once you find it, tack on another 50% to their maximum altitude and you get in the ballpark of MH17

originally posted by: whitepanther999

originally posted by: Indigo5
AND THIS CRACKS ME UP...

And, according to Russia, there was a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft flying — presumably — in the direction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Although the aircraft’s service ceiling is 22,965 feet — which drops to 16,000 feet with weapons — Russia said the fighter jet can reach 32,000 feet and easily hit a target nearly three miles away. Curiously enough, the Kremlin was caught editing the specifications on the Su-25’s Wikipedia page to increase its ceiling of 23,000 feet. It's also not an interceptor fighter jet — it's more of an attack plane for hitting targets on the ground.

mashable.com...

The Kremlin? Like actual Kremlin?

Was the nickname "VovaRussiaPutin"?

You accuse the whole government because of some idiot on wiki page?

Yes...the actual Kremlin...Yes, I would agree with "idiot" as well.

originally posted by: CALGARIAN


Yep!

Even this lady said, I think the day of the plane crash, that Ukrainian military craft were hiding behind commerical aircraft.

LISTEN @ 1:05

(place on Closed Caption English)

Wait didn't MH17 go down last week?
This video is published June 18th.
either it's been one hell of a long week or she's not talking about MH17

a reply to: Indigo5

Yes..It's funny..Unfortunately for the Russians...there is a world of aviation experts out there..

Here is one I like...

www.sukhoi.org...

Hard to beat these experts.

a reply to: HammyCat

This video is published June 18th.
either it's been one hell of a long week or she's not talking about MH17

I am pretty sure she has an agenda...

She just married one of the Russian separatist leaders Arsen Pavlov.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

As i have written in my edited post, i cannot find the source that talks about Kremlin IP editing the SU25 wiki.

Stop, found it.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Indigo5

Yes..It's funny..Unfortunately for the Russians...there is a world of aviation experts out there..

Here is one I like...

www.sukhoi.org...

Hard to beat these experts.

LOL ..I know! But hell...the people who made the plane must be in on the conspiracy! All the Kremlin needs to do is edit Wikipedia to suit their claims! I feel sorry for the Rusky at the Kremlin who came up with that piece of failed propaganda. He has to be catching hell.

originally posted by: whitepanther999
As i have written in my edited post, i cannot find the source that talks about Kremlin IP editing the SU25 wiki.

Stop, found it.

You don't need a source. You can check Wikipedia edits and then trace IP yourself.

a reply to: Indigo5

LOL ..I know! But hell...the people who made the plane must be in on the conspiracy! All the Kremlin needs to do is edit Wikipedia to suit their claims! I feel sorry for the Rusky at the Kremlin who came up with that piece of failed propaganda. He has to be catching hell.

I imagine he's going to need to get used to the cold where he is headed.

I guess the Russians didn't think the world was smart enough to actually look at the manufactures page on specs. Maybe they should have thought about changing the specs on the Sukhoi site, because then they would have had an argument.

a reply to: Indigo5

The thing is, you can not take it seriously. There are multiple ways to hide behind the IP.

It just smells incredibly fishy. They could have at least chose more believable IP.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Indigo5
AND THIS CRACKS ME UP...

And, according to Russia, there was a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft flying — presumably — in the direction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

Although the aircraft’s service ceiling is 22,965 feet — which drops to 16,000 feet with weapons — Russia said the fighter jet can reach 32,000 feet and easily hit a target nearly three miles away. Curiously enough, the Kremlin was caught editing the specifications on the Su-25’s Wikipedia page to increase its ceiling of 23,000 feet. It's also not an interceptor fighter jet — it's more of an attack plane for hitting targets on the ground.

mashable.com...

There is a youtube video that show a group armed SU 25 fly at 7500m = 24606 ft. That tok Place in 1995.

I am going to see if i can find the video.

Good luck with that. Once you find it, tack on another 50% to their maximum altitude and you get in the ballpark of MH17

If i am not mistaken these fly at 8690m. Its at 5;35 in the video. They are not fully loaded but they are armed.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Indigo5

Yes..It's funny..Unfortunately for the Russians...there is a world of aviation experts out there..

Here is one I like...

www.sukhoi.org...

Hard to beat these experts.

LOL ..I know! But hell...the people who made the plane must be in on the conspiracy! All the Kremlin needs to do is edit Wikipedia to suit their claims! I feel sorry for the Rusky at the Kremlin who came up with that piece of failed propaganda. He has to be catching hell.

Who said that wiki is all facts when it come to military Equipment?

It was probably SU-27`s, and it is not the Russians saying that

Go to 1.33

What does this look like? Bulletholes? Just asking.

Image

a reply to: Themaninwhite

Fighter aircraft usually have a 20mm canon on the smaller end. Those are shrapnel holes from a missile.

a reply to: spy66

While that does seem like a plausible explanation why would the Ukrainian AF use Su-25 ground attack aircraft as interceptors when they are equipped with the Mig-29? Also what Xcalibur254 said about the damage and details of the R-60 missile. IR guided missiles will hit the heat source, radar guided missiles hit the biggest radar cross section which is usually the fuselage. Most if not all A2A and SAM missiles will have a fragmentation warhead.

I`m not saying it was a SAM that shot the aircraft down, I'm saying its not very likely that a Su-25 shot it down, and either way with modern missiles smoke trials are something of the past, a missile contrail however is different.

And another point all add if Zaphod hasn't is the fact the Su-25 has a horrible time to climb ratio after a certain altitude, meaning that an airliner already upstairs cruising at its cruising speed could easily cruise on out of range before the Su-25 even gets up there.

originally posted by: buddah6

originally posted by: rustyclutch

“Records show that the Ukrainian Air Force plane ascended to the distance of 3-5 km from the Malaysian Boeing,” he said. “The Su-25 can fly at altitudes of up to 10 km. It is armed with P-60 air-to-air missiles that can hit targets at a distance of up to 12 km and reliably within 5 km.”

source

Наличие американского спутника в районе катастрофы

Картаполов также сообщил о том, что 17 июля с 17.06 мск по 17.21 мск над юго-восточными районами Украины пролетал американский экспериментальный аппарат, предназначенный для обнаружения ракетных пусков.

Время катастрофы Boeing и время наблюдения спутником США за территорией Украины совпадают, указал генерал-лейтенант.

source

Translation

An American satellite in the accident


Kartapolov also reported that 17 July with ICN ICN 17.21 17.06 on the South-Eastern regions of Ukraine flew American experimental apparatus designed to detect missile launches.


The time of the accident, Boeing and United States satellite observations over the territory of Ukraine are the same, said Lieutenant General.

I know for some of the Russian Haters this is nothing more than propaganda and you will argue to your last breath that Russia or the Rebels are responsible. For the objective others....Russia's evidence looks a lot better than our evidence. Or should I say Russia actually has evidence. It could be fake....I doubt it is. If it is fake they did a better job than that phone conversation. Either way...I didn't see this up yet so thought I'd post it.

Well, where should I start? A Su 25 has a ceiling of 22000 ft and a top speed of 600 mph, OK. Explain to me how it could catch an airplane flying at 33000ft and flying at about the same speed as the Su 25 top speed. The Su 25 would have to take off and climb to it's ceiling altitude and accellerate to it's top speed. After this happens the 777 would be to far gone for an intercept but remember the Su25 is a ground attack airplane not an interceptor. No politics just physics.

Not sure if anyone has explained it to you.

Ceiling is being limited by the fact that the cabin is not hermetic, meaning that if the pilot has oxygen mask on, technically Su 25 has no problems physically to climb above 12000 meters.



cheers.

a reply to: darkorange

Uhm, no, no, and no.

Ceiling is the point where the aircraft can no longer maintain a certain climb rate. It's an almost absolute. You can get a little higher than the published ceiling, but you can't stay there long, and you can't get a lot higher.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: darkorange

Uhm, no, no, and no.

Ceiling is the point where the aircraft can no longer maintain a certain climb rate. It's an almost absolute. You can get a little higher than the published ceiling, but you can't stay there long, and you can't get a lot higher.

In your books, yes. But to whatever tech specs avail to you, ceiling limit was imposed to that exactly fact. With oxygen mask jet can climb much higher.
Cabin is not sealed. Hence official tech limits.