Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

It's pretty simple. You want more land but you are surrounded by sovereign powers SO you launch a missle at your own people, claim that your neighbor did it, bomb the heck out of them, THEN you launch a land invasion and take more of their land under the guise of protecting yourself.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Logarock
What many never take into consideration is that many of the folks living close to Israle are actually ancestry related.

They come from a nephew of Abraham and other relatives of Abraham beside Ismael, a brother of Jacob ect. What Iran's interest is in these folks fighting isn't really clear but certainly some sort of pathological race hate.

The Palestinians living there are closer related to those people than the Europeans that have moved into Israel posing as Jews.
Also don't try to drag Iran into this because if they hated Jews so badly they show it very poorly seeing how Iran has one of the largest group of Jews outside of Israel. Not to mention they told Israel they would rather live in Iran than Israel because their faith isn't for sale. That should tell you something about the government running Israel.

You like some other anti Israle types here have all sorts of conditions on what can be brought into the discussion.

As long as Iran is running Hezbollah and Hamas they are going to be in the discussion. And the Jews in Iran....oh I wonder how many of them are in the power government positions there? And so what it some other Jews want their homeland rather than the diaspora?

At any rate no comfort can be taken from Iran's position on its Jewish population when we see how they act toward nationalist Jews. The feel the same way about the nationalist Kurds. The Kurds are in fact a prime example of the way the powers that be over there treat the scattered and without national standing.

originally posted by: damwel
It's pretty simple. You want more land but you are surrounded by sovereign powers SO you launch a missle at your own people, claim that your neighbor did it, bomb the heck out of them, THEN you launch a land invasion and take more of their land under the guise of protecting yourself.

Have you and folks like you on here ever considered having to prove comments like the one above?

a reply to: Logarock

You say history has no bearing here and yet radicals have been desecration the centuries old landmarks around the area that show historical relevance to the Israelites.

Just like how Israel has been destroying Christian sites in Israel they have also been destroying sites that are special to the Jews as well.

a reply to: Logarock

As long as Iran is running Hezbollah and Hamas they are going to be in the discussion.

Iran runs neither Hamas nor Hezbollah yes they give them weapons but by no means do they run them.

And the Jews in Iran....oh I wonder how many of them are in the power government positions there?

Jews are in the government in Iran how many Arabs and Christians are in the government of Israel seeing how Israel is supposed to be a "Democracy".

At any rate no comfort can be taken from Iran's position on its Jewish population when we see how they act toward nationalist Jews.

Nationalist Jews or Zionist? Iran has made no effort that they do not like the Zionist but they have no problem with Jews as the Jews in Iran said Iran's problem with Israel is political it has nothing to do with religion.

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: skunkape23
I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

Nice try.

Fact is the Palestinians could live in peace just where they are but Hamas wont let them. They go starting fights that bring down the heat on their own people. All that has to happen for peace is for Hamas to stop with the rockets. Hamas however sees peace only in the destruction and deportation of Israle.

Are you saying that none of this happened before hamas?
Because I was under the impression it did.

Well you are certainly not saying the Hamas and Hezbollah are justified righteous warriors and really care about the land are you?

If one fights on their home soil, they are a freedom fighter.
If one invades another's land, they are a terrorist.
Is it really that hard to understand?

Is it really hard to understand the Syrians and others originally drove the Israelites out of their land and transplanted the modern day occupants of Lebanon into the area? So now they are back as invaders? They sound like freedom fighters to me.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: skunkape23
I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

Nice try.

Fact is the Palestinians could live in peace just where they are but Hamas wont let them. They go starting fights that bring down the heat on their own people. All that has to happen for peace is for Hamas to stop with the rockets. Hamas however sees peace only in the destruction and deportation of Israle.

Are you saying that none of this happened before hamas?
Because I was under the impression it did.

Well you are certainly not saying the Hamas and Hezbollah are justified righteous warriors and really care about the land are you?

If one fights on their home soil, they are a freedom fighter.
If one invades another's land, they are a terrorist.
Is it really that hard to understand?

Is it really hard to understand the Syrians and others originally drove the Israelites out of their land and transplanted the modern day occupants of Lebanon into the area? So now they are back as invaders? They sound like freedom fighters to me.

How many centuries ago did that happen? So you would have no problem giving up your land if someone showed up and said this land belonged to me centuries ago?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
.I have to believe that jewish people are also accepted. So...why so many anti-Israel threads?

THIS! This is why I hate discussion the topic. Too many people think Israel = Jews, and if you say something against Israels politics people instantly assume you are antisemitic and say something against Jews.
NO, damn it... forget the Jew part for a discussion!
This is why we can't freely discuss this topic here in Germany.
You don't have to be antisemite to realize that Israel is commiting a crime.
It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with them being Jews.

a reply to: aLLeKs


Just for the record, I consider anyone anti-Semitic if they really don't know the facts well and have a bent that defends the position of its enemies. There are very very few objective critics of Israle on this site. If one is not objective the are stupid or ignorant and just hate for personal or kick reasons.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: ArtemisE

They were plopped there after WW2. The Jewish population before 47 was a trickle and a tiny minority. They lived side by side at peace with the Palestinians.

It wasn't until after WW2 that they moved in en masse and formed an army and began kicking the peaceful Palestinians out of their homes (after they attacked Egypt and used that as an excuse to remove Palestinians).

Agreed, but the influx of Jews had started long before WW2. After the war there was a mass migration but Jews had been comming there for a safe peaceful safe haven for decades. After they got armed after the war I think both sides made mistakes. The Arab world wasn't but a generation out of the Stone Age and armed as they were the Jews were vastly out numbered. Now they both need to buck up a create a unified gov system. I think everyone needs to agree the deaths are counter productive and form courts of basic steal, kill, and assault type stuff. I don't know I'm rambling hehe.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: skunkape23
I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

Nice try.

Fact is the Palestinians could live in peace just where they are but Hamas wont let them. They go starting fights that bring down the heat on their own people. All that has to happen for peace is for Hamas to stop with the rockets. Hamas however sees peace only in the destruction and deportation of Israle.

Are you saying that none of this happened before hamas?
Because I was under the impression it did.

Well you are certainly not saying the Hamas and Hezbollah are justified righteous warriors and really care about the land are you?

If one fights on their home soil, they are a freedom fighter.
If one invades another's land, they are a terrorist.
Is it really that hard to understand?

Is it really hard to understand the Syrians and others originally drove the Israelites out of their land and transplanted the modern day occupants of Lebanon into the area? So now they are back as invaders? They sound like freedom fighters to me.

How many centuries ago did that happen? So you would have no problem giving up your land if someone showed up and said this land belonged to me centuries ago?

Are you saying that the Palestinians and others are acting like americans did toward the natives here?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
I see so much about this topic on ATS, and for good reason. But I see so much hate directed toward Israel when discussing this topic and can't believe it is simply bigoted. But it often seems that way. In this world where we are supposed to accept everyone...I have to believe that jewish people are also accepted. So...why so many anti-Israel threads?

I consider myself a quite intelligent and logical thinker, though not extremely educated on this topic. I personally believe that if there is a good and a bad side...Israel is the good and Palestine the bad. But I'm open for facts and some opinions. I would REALLY like to avoid heated, hateful and bigoted responses. This is what I believe I "know" and some of what I "think" about the whole Israel and Palestine situation.

I believe that there is no Palestine and that it is simply a made up area...at least officially.
I believe that Israel hates Palestine because they attack them.
I believe Palestine hates Israel simply because they exist.
I believe that most every time there is a "peace"...Palestine breaks it.
I believe the leaders in Palestine want the fighting to continue to keep them in power.
I believe Israel wouldn't wage war if Palestine would stop attacking.
And finally...based upon all this...I believe Palestine is the aggressor and Israel is simply defending itself. Maybe aggressively...but still defending.

So...am I right? And if not...please provide facts that dispute these beliefs, I'm willing to hear and consider them. I can be convinced one way or the other as I know I'm not up on the history. But...facts and logic rule...not emotion and spewed BS political double-speak.

Fire away!

You're asking for almost a century of very detailed history and analysis in a place where many people believe iguanas from outer space secretly rule the world. And truthfully it looks less like you're asking and more like you're telling with a question mark.

Do you perhaps want to start off with one question, something more easily easily grappled than seven, and work from there?

The way I was taught is, after the WWII the largest governing bodies of the world had a whole load of Jewish refugees with no home. Previous to the wars they were pushing the British government (at the time in control of Palestine) to give them a small part of the land to set up a new country, they gave them some which was met with resistance so it was shelved, until obviously after WWII they did give them a very small part of Palestine and pretty much said the Jewish people are you're problem now. The world had been blaming the Jewish people for a long time for the problems because they were everywhere.


At some point after this, I think Israel expanded more into Palestinian territory which caused a couple of the middle eastern countries (not all) to go to war with the new kingdom of Israel, which Israel came out victorious and then marched more into Palestine and took pretty much the rest of the country (I believe they now have like 70% more land than they were given)

So essentially the Jewish nation forced the Palestinians out of the land they have occupied for thousands of years based on the idea that God chose the land only for these Jewish people.

Of course I left out alot of details, but the situation is very complicated and you would be foolish to actually choose a side as now so much time has passed in a area of bloodshed and violence they are both as bad as each other, and regardless of you're decision you will be supporting the killing of innocent people.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: damwel
It's pretty simple. You want more land but you are surrounded by sovereign powers SO you launch a missle at your own people, claim that your neighbor did it, bomb the heck out of them, THEN you launch a land invasion and take more of their land under the guise of protecting yourself.

Have you and folks like you on here ever considered having to prove comments like the one above?

All the proof you need is right in history. Someone had a thread with the history of Israel's land grab yesterday. I challenge you to give your land and home to a Jewish family and walk away from it.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

For some perspective:

Your family lived on some land for hundreds of years.

Suddenly that land is given to someone else but you get a small portion. You're not very strong so you get out of the way.

Slowly the new owner starts to take more and more of your land because you're still not strong.

You complain to those that are strong but no one cares.

What do you do?

a reply to: Logarock

And who drove the Canaanites out with genocide?

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

You need to look back all the way back to the beginning. Even further back than this time.
en.wikipedia.org...

Jewish insurgency in Palestine

Palestine Railway's K class 2-8-4T steam locomotive and freight train on the Jaffa and Jerusalem line after being sabotaged by Jewish insurgents in 1946.

Dear Sir:

I have served as witness before the Anglo-American Inquriy [sic] Commission on Palestine for the sole purpose to act in favor of our just cause. But it is, of course, impossible to prevent distortion by the press. I am in favor of Palestine being developed as a Jewish Homeland but not as a separate State. It seems to me a matter for simple common sense that we cannot ask to be given the political rule over Palestine where two thirds of the population are not Jewish. What we can and should ask is a secured bi-national status in Palestine with free immigration. If we ask more we are damaging our own cause and it is difficult for me to grasp that our Zionists are taking such an intransigent position which can only impair our cause.

Very truly yours,

A. EINSTEIN

Albert Einstein.

www.shapell.org...

a reply to: Char-Lee

Thank you for posting that.

Never before has this passed my eye

originally posted by: soulwaxer
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
OK, I'm gonna fire away.

I believe that you are either a shill, or you need to do your own research before throwing a question like that out there.

Israel is obviously the agressor, and has followed the same style ever since they invaded the land of the Palestinians to which they had no right.

soulwaxer

Feel free to call me what you want. The fact and truth is that I never followed the cause of the problems and drew my beliefs from the news presented. I am also a firm believer in solving problems, not patching symptoms. So...the entire purpose of this thread was to see other's collections of facts...not opinions. I consider ATS to have a large number of educated and intelligent people. Why not start with those before reading "internet facts" that are never the whole and complete truths.

With that said...it is NOT obvious that Israel is the ONLY aggressor and from what I've learned, it isn't so cut-and-dry that they invaded anywhere. They were placed there by someone else and then fought wars brought to them. So...you sir may believe me a shill...but you have proven what you are.