Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: TheTengriist

That post doesnt answer my original quesiton.... it just agrees that there never was a palestinian nation and gives excuses as to why not. can you answer my quesiton?

No, it tells you exactly why there wasn't. Facts are not "excuses."

As to your question, it comes down to how narrowly we're going to be defining the term of your question - Modern concepts of sovereignty and especially "the Nation-State" are quite new, in regards to the breadth of history. Using the most narrow definition, there's only been one - Israel, starting from April 1948. Previous rulers of the territory were empires and kingdoms and vassals, none of which qualify for the term you are using.

If we loosen it up a bit, the answer becomes several dozen. The territory has changed hands quite a bit.

What's your purpose in asking?

furthermore, you really try to impress with your english language skills.... i understand what you are saying. but its fancy talk to someone who has been in the war we are debating! sorry but the real world is not 'different' form how i remember it.
you are over analyzing something very simple - that witness and experience dictate the story not the other way round. I acted and you read the story!

More accurately I've read hundreds of stories, supplied with contemporary primary sources. So i hope you'll pardon if i take a breadth of accounts and sources, over the memory of one guy I bump into on ATS, yes?

but we can agree to disagree.... since you obviously cannot answer my question!

Just did, though I'm not sure it's a question worth answering. Might as well demand an answer to "What color is grass?"

Lol you aren't very awake are you if those are your beliefs! You say you're intelligent but have you actually done any real research regarding the history of the israel- palestine conflict... Oh and watching fox news doesn't qualify!

Sigh... OK here are some facts and homework for u...

1. The state of Israel was formed In the Balfour agreement... Essentially what happened here is land that did not belong to anyone accept those who lived their was annexed and given to outsiders... Therefore Israel and those within have no legitimacy to be there from the outset.... Go research plz

2. Since inception Israel has constantly been annexing land from Palestine... Look at historical maps... Its constantly expanded...

3. Israeli war crimes... Go look at some YouTube videos and do some research... Soldiers breaking bones with rocks... Toying with victims... Shooting kids... All while using racial/hate speach...

4. Israeli blockade of Gaza.... Do some research...

5. Israeli torture of Palestinians... Again research

I cud go on but something tells me that ur here to put people to sleep in contrast to ur handle... I have hope for the more discerning ATS member however

here it is, short and simple: www.youtube.com...

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I see so much about this topic on ATS, and for good reason. But I see so much hate directed toward Israel when discussing this topic and can't believe it is simply bigoted. But it often seems that way. In this world where we are supposed to accept everyone...I have to believe that jewish people are also accepted. So...why so many anti-Israel threads?

What does speaking out against Israel have to do with Jewish people? I personally have no animosity towards Jewish people but I denounce the crimes against humanity the government of Israel is committing. I personally have no affiliation with Muslim people but feel disheartened about the oppressed people of Palestine forced to live in an open air prison. I also denounce the Palestinian elected authority Hamas for firing rockets into Israel regardless of their reasons.

An anti-Israel thread has absolutely nothing to do with being bigoted against Jewish people. A pro-Palestinian thread has absolutely nothing to do with favouring Muslim people.

This conflict has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion, but many like to do make it out as such. They are called spin doctors...

If I see a three year old little girl cut in half by a mortar shell on either side I will speak out to denounce it. The fact is that only seems to be witnessed over and over again on the Palestinian side.

I personally believe that if there is a good and a bad side...Israel is the good and Palestine the bad.

I see good people on both sides. BUT I perceive the Israel government as the aggressors who kill and maim children and women based on facts provided. I have photos of countless dead Palestinian children to back it up. After all, a picture speaks a thousand words.

The rest of your comments are just you poking around...

a reply to: combatmaster

they teach kids to hate and kill, how are you even defending this????

Here's a few photos of Israeli children being taught to hate and kill. I know based on your above words you cannot defend these photos. It will leave you with your foot in your mouth. I know this already. The majority of Israeli citizens are good people. The majority of Palestinian citizens are good people.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

... its people like you who make it worse for gaza!

So let me get this straight. You utter a threat against the Palestinian people based on the opinions of others half way across the world who want fairness and the killing of children and women to stop? That is pretty sadistic.

Btw, who funded Hamas in the beginning to oppose Arafat? A trip down that rabbit hole will leave you fumbling for words...

You can't discuss this without going back to British and French political boundaries created to put friends in power and destabilize potential enemies. Same goes for Iraq, Syria etc.
Petroleum was the goal and control was the game.
So, it was the Israeli's who killed and terrorized to create their own religious state with British banker complicity.
As a matter of course, the Israeli army has been bulldozing homes, crops and whole villages that were producing for hundreds of years without change in ownership. Those people and their relatives got pissed.
With USA assistance and stolen nuclear technology, Israel has been able to threaten everyone and bully the defenseless.
Hamas 'rockets' are tubes without GPS or homing systems. Israel murders families and calls it 'targeted' as if that's ok.
There's a reason Jimmy Carter was willing to risk his political career and Mossad assassination to call Israel an "Apartheid state". That's the strongest language any Western political figure has ever used.
Turn the tables.. what would USA say if 30% of highest ranking officials in Government, defense and finance held dual Arab Country and US passport. Go look it up. Find em all and win a prize... the horrible truth.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Logarock
What many never take into consideration is that many of the folks living close to Israle are actually ancestry related.

They come from a nephew of Abraham and other relatives of Abraham beside Ismael, a brother of Jacob ect. What Iran's interest is in these folks fighting isn't really clear but certainly some sort of pathological race hate.

Also don't try to drag Iran into this because if they hated Jews so badly they show it very poorly seeing how Iran has one of the largest group of Jews outside of Israel.

Keep trying to spread lies - this is not even close to true. There are about 10k Jews in Iran - they are not even in the top 20...

United States 5,425,000
France 480,000
Canada 375,000
U.K. 291,000
Russia 194,000
Argentina 181,800
Germany 119,000
Brazil 95,300
Ukraine 67,000
Hungary 48,200
Mexico 39,200
Belgium 30,000
Netherlands 29,900
Italy 28,200
Chile 18,500
Switzerland 17,500
Turkey 17,400
Sweden 15,000
Spain 12,000
Belarus 12,000

And even tiny Uruguay whose population is 20x smaller than Iran has almost twice as many Jews living there compared to Iran...

Worldwide Jewish population stats

I haven't read through the entire threat yet, but the comments above are typical - some people keep spreading false info when they don't know what they are talking about. They keep spreading something they heard somewhere as if it is truth.

No doubt this is a complex issue, both sides have done things wrong, and there is no quick or easy fix.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Logarock

As long as Iran is running Hezbollah and Hamas they are going to be in the discussion.

Iran runs neither Hamas nor Hezbollah yes they give them weapons but by no means do they run them.

And if they didn't give them weapons or money they would be insignificant - So you advocate supporting/funding terrorism?

And the Jews in Iran....oh I wonder how many of them are in the power government positions there?

Jews are in the government in Iran how many Arabs and Christians are in the government of Israel seeing how Israel is supposed to be a "Democracy".

Iran has one seat allocated for a Jew in their parliament. Israel has many more Arabs (Christian, Druze, Muslim) in their government. Do you even bother to research things before you post?
Iran
Israel

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

You need to look back all the way back to the beginning. Even further back than this time.
en.wikipedia.org...

Jewish insurgency in Palestine

Palestine Railway's K class 2-8-4T steam locomotive and freight train on the Jaffa and Jerusalem line after being sabotaged by Jewish insurgents in 1946.

From your source:

Jewish insurgency in Palestine refers to violent campaigns carried out by Jewish underground groups against the British forces and officials in Mandatory Palestine between 1939 and 1947

And the reason for this, is that Jews were being slaughtered in Europe and the British wouldn't let them into Mandatory Palestine. They didn't intentionally target civilians all over the region like Hamas is.

Do USA sit back when their country is being attacked by terrorists ?
Israel have all the right to defend itself this extremist Muslims that hide behind their woman and children.




Everyone should support Israel, they are fighting the war that USA have started

a reply to: Spacespider

You don't know what you are talking about.

The only terrorists are the IDF.

Who are the ones being killed. Who are the ones having their land stolen and being killed?

That cartoon you posted is so ironic because it's actually the Israelis who are stealing land. They stole it from the Palestinians then kept taking it and never stopped to this day. If you actually knew anything about what was going on you would understand why they shoot rockets. If they didn't then Israel would still have them in their tiny prison and still be taking more and more of their land.

Do you not understand that Israel has laws that only apply to Palestinians? They aren't free, and Israel won't let them be. They want to control them AND bomb them like a foreign country.

It's absurd. You need to stop being close minded and actually research. You have made up your mind. I don't know if it's religious indoctrination or racism, but if you ever wake up you will see the truth.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Hamas isn't targeting anyone. They don't have that capability. They are just shooting off rockets randomly to get attention from the internation community to the fact that Israel is oppressing them and taking their land (the little bit they have left.

They have laws against palestinians that Israelis don't have.

Basically if you support Israel's treatment of Palestinians then you support the South's treatment of African Americans. You support the Apartheid.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

What makes it terrorism?

If someone starts bulldozing your home and they control your city and don't allow any aid or communication with the world. They forbid any progress and put laws on your that don't apply to their people and you shoot rockets to get the worlds attention and try to stop them from bulldozing your homes.. you sincerely think that's terrorism?

You have to agree that Israel is guilty of terrorism as well then.

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Logarock
What many never take into consideration is that many of the folks living close to Israle are actually ancestry related.

They come from a nephew of Abraham and other relatives of Abraham beside Ismael, a brother of Jacob ect. What Iran's interest is in these folks fighting isn't really clear but certainly some sort of pathological race hate.

Also don't try to drag Iran into this because if they hated Jews so badly they show it very poorly seeing how Iran has one of the largest group of Jews outside of Israel.

Keep trying to spread lies - this is not even close to true. There are about 10k Jews in Iran - they are not even in the top 20...

United States 5,425,000
France 480,000
Canada 375,000
U.K. 291,000
Russia 194,000
Argentina 181,800
Germany 119,000
Brazil 95,300
Ukraine 67,000
Hungary 48,200
Mexico 39,200
Belgium 30,000
Netherlands 29,900
Italy 28,200
Chile 18,500
Switzerland 17,500
Turkey 17,400
Sweden 15,000
Spain 12,000
Belarus 12,000

And even tiny Uruguay whose population is 20x smaller than Iran has almost twice as many Jews living there compared to Iran...

Worldwide Jewish population stats

I haven't read through the entire threat yet, but the comments above are typical - some people keep spreading false info when they don't know what they are talking about. They keep spreading something they heard somewhere as if it is truth.

No doubt this is a complex issue, both sides have done things wrong, and there is no quick or easy fix.

Wrong.. they have the 13th largest jewish population with 30,000+. Previously they had around 90,000, but many moved after the revolution in the 70's.

So wrong again. They do have one of the largest Jewish populations.

a reply to: Kamza

Not to mention the most shameful act. Intentional carpet bombing of in 2012. They dropped 100 tons of bombs on Gaza in one day. They began the operation at 1125, the exact moment that classes switch from morning to evening meaning the streets are filled with kids going to and from school.

Why did they pick this moment to strike? I think the answer is obvious.

It sickens me that people support Israel solely because religion or what our government and media spins. If our government and media supported Palestinians these people would support them instead because they are followers with no minds of their own.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

In the beginning.........................

A band of terrorists land in a small country known as Palestine.
These Terrorists came from many foreign lands with a Zionist doctrine.

They are still there to this day.

I have omitted the body count!

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

You are so wrong..
Either you are a Muslim and blinded by regliion factors
Or you just don´t know your history
Or you live in Gaza and regret that Hamas broke the cease fire they where given by Israel

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Do you really think Hamas would act peacefully when Israel gives them land? Don't be ridiculous.

Their goal is, and always has been: Kill every Jew and Christian. www.youtube.com...

Israel tolerates a lot. Once every few years they invade Gaza again, but they never finish the job. They can't. Terrorist cells are scattered all over the middle east. The rest of the year they tolerate incoming rockets, day after day. Luckily, these rockets aren't very destructive. But Hamas/ISIS etc. wouldn't think twice on using a nuke if they could get there hands on one. The more casualties, the better.