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Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

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posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: aLLeKs

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
.I have to believe that jewish people are also accepted. So...why so many anti-Israel threads?


THIS! This is why I hate discussion the topic. Too many people think Israel = Jews, and if you say something against Israels politics people instantly assume you are antisemitic and say something against Jews.
NO, damn it... forget the Jew part for a discussion!
This is why we can't freely discuss this topic here in Germany.
You don't have to be antisemite to realize that Israel is commiting a crime.
It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with them being Jews.

Bad wording on my part. The threads to which I referred definitely turned into anti-jewish threads but you are correct. We are talking about a country, not a religion or race.




posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: usertwelve




Your family lived on some land for hundreds of years.


It doesnt make it their land.... If they failed to create an internationally recognized sovereign arab palestinian state, how is it their land? They had a lease on it.... so what, the lease is now over!

Jews on the other hand were not given a small portion.... they were expelled from their homeland and survived 2000 years in foreign lands living as refugees! Now they are back...

So these new refugees that you call the Palestinians, can go back to their ancestors' real homeland - Jordan, Oman, Syria, Egypt etc.... just like the Jews went back to their ancestors' real homeland- Israel!



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: TheTengriist

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
I see so much about this topic on ATS, and for good reason. But I see so much hate directed toward Israel when discussing this topic and can't believe it is simply bigoted. But it often seems that way. In this world where we are supposed to accept everyone...I have to believe that jewish people are also accepted. So...why so many anti-Israel threads?

I consider myself a quite intelligent and logical thinker, though not extremely educated on this topic. I personally believe that if there is a good and a bad side...Israel is the good and Palestine the bad. But I'm open for facts and some opinions. I would REALLY like to avoid heated, hateful and bigoted responses. This is what I believe I "know" and some of what I "think" about the whole Israel and Palestine situation.

I believe that there is no Palestine and that it is simply a made up area...at least officially.
I believe that Israel hates Palestine because they attack them.
I believe Palestine hates Israel simply because they exist.
I believe that most every time there is a "peace"...Palestine breaks it.
I believe the leaders in Palestine want the fighting to continue to keep them in power.
I believe Israel wouldn't wage war if Palestine would stop attacking.
And finally...based upon all this...I believe Palestine is the aggressor and Israel is simply defending itself. Maybe aggressively...but still defending.

So...am I right? And if not...please provide facts that dispute these beliefs, I'm willing to hear and consider them. I can be convinced one way or the other as I know I'm not up on the history. But...facts and logic rule...not emotion and spewed BS political double-speak.

Fire away!


You're asking for almost a century of very detailed history and analysis in a place where many people believe iguanas from outer space secretly rule the world. And truthfully it looks less like you're asking and more like you're telling with a question mark.

Do you perhaps want to start off with one question, something more easily easily grappled than seven, and work from there?


I figured, maybe too simplistically, that if I stated what I believed was true and allowed others to comment or present other facts would be the best way to address this. I have no interest in taking a class or seminar lead by people simply presenting their opinions...and thought starting with what I believe are facts, and asking for others facts (not opinions) would be much more direct.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: combatmaster


...so what, the lease is now over!
Please explain to all of us who they were "leasing" land from. This should be good.


they were expelled from their homeland and survived 2000 years in foreign lands living as refugees!
It seems a history lesson on the ME is required. They were the FIRST to take the land much longer than 2000 years ago. So you're saying whoever took it last is the rightful owner?


So these new refugees that you call the Palestinians, can go back to their ancestors' real homeland - Jordan, Oman, Syria, Egypt etc.... just like the Jews went back to their ancestors' real homeland- Israel!
Would you like some links to who actually lived in that area originally? It's pretty simple to find but I'll help you out if you need it.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

Very simple. Abject stupidity.

The people over there are being used by those in power in both Israel and in Hamas. The leadership on both sides don't want peace. Peace would mean that they lose their power and they lose their 'aid money'. So the people on both sides suffer all so the leadership can skim $$$ and play with power.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

Very simple. Abject stupidity.

The people over there are being used by those in power in both Israel and in Hamas. The leadership on both sides don't want peace. Peace would mean that they lose their power and they lose their 'aid money'. So the people on both sides suffer all so the leadership can skim $$$ and play with power.


I agree 100%!


If it's peaceful the palistinians don't need Hamas.....

If it's peaceful Netanyahu's political party might not win....

So no body wins but them...



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: combatmaster



Jews on the other hand were not given a small portion.... they were expelled from their homeland and survived 2000 years in foreign lands living as refugees! Now they are back...

The people who were driven off the land have been dead for a long time the only people that have a rightful claim to the land is the people who were living there. It is ridiculous to claim they have survived 2000 years in foreign lands unless you can show a person that has been alive for the last 2000 years. No they are not back these people have no genetic link with the people that lived there 2000 years ago. The Palestinians have more of a genetic link with the land than the people from Europe.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

Very simple. Abject stupidity.

The people over there are being used by those in power in both Israel and in Hamas. The leadership on both sides don't want peace. Peace would mean that they lose their power and they lose their 'aid money'. So the people on both sides suffer all so the leadership can skim $$$ and play with power.


Here is one of those rare times we agree on something. All of this means money for both sides war always does.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: buster2010

This is untrue...

Im not gonna argue with you buster since you are not going to accept anything other than what you want.

You are not a genetics expert. I personally can trace my bloodline back 23 generations of rabbis, back to Babylon and to Israel.

You have in all likelyhood never left your country, and im pretty positive you have never visited israel or gaza.

How can i take a person who quotes hitler in his signature seriously!?



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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Let me break it down for you guys.

1. The Palestinians have no country...they have areas that they can live in which are controlled by Israel.
2. Israel basically invaded and took over the areas that are now Israel. These areas are where the Palestinians lived. They were a displaced people.
3. Israel, instead of doing the right thing, decided to oppress and treat these Palestinians like vermin.
4. The Palestinians got angry because...they were invaded, occupied and made to live in squalor and horrible conditions. Wouldn't you?
5. The Palestinians not having many allies or any money or any infrastructure or any technology or anything really...decided and it wasn't all Palestinians. It was just the militant ones. They fought back the only way they could...with guerilla war tactics and terrorism and cheap rockets and homemade bombs. That's all they have really..once in a while a few guns etc.
6. Israel being so nice -decided to give the Palestinians autonomy over their lands and then started making settlers take over those Palestinian lands mile by mile and foot by foot in some cases.
7. Palestinians still angry, as would you be. Still fighting back, as would you be. Israeli government pretends they want peace but then keeps oppressing and subjugating and killing more Palestinians year by year.
8. for whatever reason, all media black this out and don't report on anything the Israeli government does that is wrong

These are the eight incontrovertible facts of the situation. One people attacks another and the country that tries to fight back.. they are demonized.

The 9th fact is that I am not anti Jewish or anti Semitic and I hate Holocaust deniers more than just about anyone else on ATS, however, I can see a Bully nation when I see one. Israel does not want peace...they do not want a one state solution or a two state solution they just want to kill Palestinians.

Oh.. 10th fact...bloodlines mean nothing. Who cares about bloodlines and ancestral lands? You don't see me floating back to Wales and kicking some old pensioner out of my "ancestral house" do you? And if ancestral lands mean so much we should all move back to Africa or at least Summaria or some ancient caves somewhere. Let's just stop that nonsense right now.
edit on 18-7-2014 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:41 PM
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Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

In a nutshell the only countries that are allowed to exist in the ME are islamic ones.

If Israel was muslims people wouldn't even be hearing about it.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

In a nutshell the only countries that are allowed to exist in the ME are islamic ones.

If Israel was muslims people wouldn't even be hearing about it.


You need to read up on the situation.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: usertwelve

Im not pretending to be a history expert...

But Jews lived in that area and had a state a national state! There was never a time in the past 2000 years where Jews were not present in that land.

There never was an Arab Palestine State, Country, National movement or attempt to create a State before 1967.

Show me when an Arab Palestine State ever existed and in what year was it occupied by Israel.

So its simple... unless you can find the long lost descendants of the ancient canaananites, who adhere to the same exact religious, cultural and social beliefs of ancient canaan... the next in line is the Jews.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: usertwelve

Im not pretending to be a history expert...

But Jews lived in that area and had a state a national state! There was never a time in the past 2000 years where Jews were not present in that land.

There never was an Arab Palestine State, Country, National movement or attempt to create a State before 1967.

Show me when an Arab Palestine State ever existed and in what year was it occupied by Israel.

So its simple... unless you can find the long lost descendants of the ancient canaananites, who adhere to the same exact religious, cultural and social beliefs of ancient canaan... the next in line is the Jews.


That doesn't really give Israel the right to subjugate and oppress a people just because the are stronger and more organized. If that was the case then Russia should invade Israel since they are a stronger nation. We're moving beyond imperialism and barbarism in today's world, yes sometimes slowly and sometimes we take a few steps back but earth is evolving.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: amazing

Yeah some people do.




The name Palestine is given to the region spreading from eastern Mediterranean coast to the Jordan Valley to the area covering Galilee Lake in the north and southern Negev Desert. The origin of this word lies in “Plesheth”. This is a name appearing frequently in the Bible and have started being known as “Philistine” in English. The world root of “Plesheth” lies in the word “palah” was is a term used generally in the sense of migratory, referring to the Palestinian’s conquest of the coast of Mediterranean. These people were mostly originates of Asia Minor and Greece and gradually became a part of the Arab world.


Key word migratory which means WHAT ?

Which means they came from Asia Minor, and Greece.



The Philistines entered in this region not all at one time but in different eras. The first group reached here in the pre-patriarchal period and made a settlement in Gerar, south of Beersheba. The second group arrived from Crete and settled in the southern coastal area where it divided made different settlements into Gat, Ekron, Ashdod, Ascalon and Gaza. These districts were occupied by the foreign settlers coming mostly from the Mediterranean islands.


www.palestinefacts.org...

So the 'Palestinians' came from Asia Minor and Greece.

Modern day 'Palestinians' are arab, 'muslims'

YES ?

Sooooooooooo.

Just for snips and giggles:



Member of a group of Aegean origin that settled on the southern coast of Palestine. The Philistines first settled the region during the 12th century BC, about the time the Israelites arrived


www.merriam-webster.com...



Philistia (Hebrew: פלשת‎, "Pleshet") was a Pentapolis in south-western Levant, comprising Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, Gath, and Gaza, established by migrant tribes (possibly the Sea Peoples), called the Philistines c.1175 BCE. The establishment is attributed to the defeat of Sea Peoples by Egyptian ruler Ramses III and their settlement in south-western Canaan


en.wikipedia.org...

There's that word again 'migrant'.

Ramses kicked their butts.

Yeah some people do need to read.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: amazing



That doesn't really give Israel the right to subjugate and oppress a people just because the are stronger and more organized. If that was the case then Russia should invade Israel since they are a stronger nation. We're moving beyond imperialism and barbarism in today's world, yes sometimes slowly and sometimes we take a few steps back but earth is evolving.

Funny you should say that... take a look at these vids and honestly tell me who is barbarically subjugating the palestinian civilian population.






posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: buster2010

This is untrue...

Im not gonna argue with you buster since you are not going to accept anything other than what you want.

You are not a genetics expert. I personally can trace my bloodline back 23 generations of rabbis, back to Babylon and to Israel.

You have in all likelyhood never left your country, and im pretty positive you have never visited israel or gaza.

How can i take a person who quotes hitler in his signature seriously!?


Sorry but 23 generations isn't enough to go all the way back to when there was an Israel. The average generation is 25 years that is the amount of time from the birth of a parent to the birth of their first child. So 23 generations by 25 years is 575 years so you are short by around 1500 years.

I've went around the world a couple of times when I was in the military. Who my quote is by isn't as important as what it means because he was right fear of sudden death makes it easy to control people.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: neo96

But what are you really saying...that because some ancient Egyptian leader "kicked their butts" that it's okay for Israel to do the same? And kill the children? sorry, brother but it's not okay and some of us will speak up against it.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: amazing

Pretty much since the 'philistines' invaded and took that land from someone who was already living there.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 09:37 PM
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originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: amazing



That doesn't really give Israel the right to subjugate and oppress a people just because the are stronger and more organized. If that was the case then Russia should invade Israel since they are a stronger nation. We're moving beyond imperialism and barbarism in today's world, yes sometimes slowly and sometimes we take a few steps back but earth is evolving.

Funny you should say that... take a look at these vids and honestly tell me who is barbarically subjugating the palestinian civilian population.






I'm not defending terrorism and I don't confuse Hamas with the boy scouts. What I'm saying is and asking the question... why is there Hamas, and before them why was there a PLO? Would the Palestinian people support Hamas at all if they were treated with respect and dignity from Israel and if they were given decent human rights? Israeli policy is the problem. Change that and change the world, my friend.



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